Support thread for those who were under the misguided illusion that their DC would sleep through by six mo - come and join!

[arthymum]

Did you assume that your DC would be sleeping through by the time they were 6 mo - and now you've hit the milestone you realise you were wrong, wrong, wrong as you stagger out of bed 1, 2, 3 times a night?

Do you sometimes can't help but wonder if you'd done things differently (BF/FF/stuck with the dreamfeed/co-slept/put them in their own cot/followed a GF routine/listened to your MIL ) you'd be getting more sleep?

Do you sometimes dread meeting up with other mums with perfect sleepers (especially when said babies are way younger and tinier than yours)?

Are you in a permanent state of confusion and doubt about whether to 'try' something or not (CC, ssh-patt, PUPD, NCSS etc.) but feel it's never the right time (teething, cold, too young) and not sure anyway whether you have the bottle/energy to see it through?

Do you hold out faint hopes that they'll sleep better when they're on solids/when the teeth come through/when they're another pound heavier/when they're in the new gro-bag/when they're on more solids - and each time - wrong again?

Do you mostly cope okay but every now and then feel tired and miserable and sorry for yourself and burst into tears at the postman or get into a petulant fight in Sainsbury's?

Do you secretly fear that you'll be on here in 3 years time, posting about the fact that you haven't slept for nearly 4 years?

Then come and join me! I've seen you lurking on other threads but feel that we need a place to congregate. Share your tears, tantrums, triumphs and tips - and hopefully one by one, we can all eventually disappear off the thread and into the land of nod....

lol, I'm too but I really want the first two DCs quite close so no point in hanging around. I do get a frisson of fear when I say it out loud though...

I want to have the next one in autumn 2011, when DS is coming up to 3yo. I'd love to have another in autumn 2010 but that scares me just a little bit too much!

Thing is, I think I want 3, so I might have to revise my plan...!

ooh, so much to talk about today!

1. the commune - no hv's, but a cranial osteo for every household
2. kiwi - last time i went home i was going through (what i hope was) the worst of the sleepless nights. i had gone home to get looked after.....dm suggested that we go for a walk around an open garden the following day - i suggested that she could take ds for a couple of hours so i could catch up on some sleep instead. 'hmmm. okay' - stunning response. the following day i was eagerly awaiting dm's return home from work. ds in pushchair, ready for walk, dm arrives, makes cup of tea, sits down for a chat, i am absolutely hanging for some sleep. (dm works 9 to 2.30, btw). eventually i asked if she was pleeeeeease going to take him out. 'oh, i wish it wasn't raining' - - guess what - perfectly dry outside! i think she's frightened of being on her own with him.

anyway, i had a wonderful gran too, most of my childhood memories are about spending time with her. maybe they just don't know what to do with babies, but get better as they turn into people. maybe they think they've done their time....maybe they will only get visiting orders to the commune until they pull their socks up.

1. one of the mums that i hang around with has just revealed that she's 3 months pg, her ds is one month younger than mine! am a little bit and a lot !

1. hooray for baby chulita! down with naps!

staines that's pretty much my DM to a tee! Whereas when my MIL came round to rescue me after hideous night (which for her is a 1 1/2 hour trip from her house each way) she took DD out for a walk and her words when she left was "we'll stay out as long as we can!". Bless her. My FIL will be very handy round the commune too, he's a trained carpenter and amazing at DIY, building shelves/kitchens/whatnot.

Only one wake up last night, hooray! And the first night in 10 days without a dirty nappy too (DD has had tummy bug).

Haha!! I failed to keep baby Chulita up yesterday and ended up with an horrible evening. She screamed from about 5pm til gone 9:30 when DH put her in bed and she actually feel asleep after 10 mins. Teeth are the culprits though, not wakefulness, she's got 2 coming through on the bottom and 2 on the top - poor little mite! The in-laws were round last night and I went out for a girly drink with some other mums. I did feel a bit guilty leaving her crying but there's nothing we could do once she'd been fed and calpoled. DH cuddled her all evening!
I'd like 3 or 4 fg so I don't want to be having babies for the rest of my life. I'm terrified of labour and I hated being pregnant and I was a mess for the first 14 weeks so fingers crossed this one will actually be a bundle of joy. I love DD but she is a tricky one

Chulita I hated being pg too! And I got really hacked off with people telling me how much they had loved it. The checkout girl in Lidl nearly fainted when I snarled at her about how miserable I was. Strangely, labour was alright though.

Had a rubbish night last night. DS was awake at 2.30 for 45 mins, screaming inconsolably for no apparent reason. Then up for the day at 5.30. Boo.

Well...I failed on Friday night but we had a really busy weekend and DD only had 2 naps on Saturday and Sunday. Saturday she slept from 7pm til 4 then 4 til 6:30 and Sunday she slept from 6pm til 1am then woke up at 7 this morning. Today she didn't want her afternoon nap either so she went to sleep at about 6pm and we'll see what happens tonight. One feed a night I can cope with for the next little while. I was planning on stopping bfing at 12 months but I've really come to love bfing, even in the middle of the night! [soppy mum emoticon]
Yea, how do people enjoy being pg? It was miserable, and labour/birth was horrendous and never to be repeated in the same manner if at all possible...I'm really scared of labour/birth since DD's troublesome arrival
How's everyone doing this week?

hello - pg hater here too - so many things that i couldn't eat or do - i think i enjoyed months 6 through to 8 and was a miserable wretch for the rest of the time. plus the bloody heartburn.....
i've just stopped expecting ds to sleep through. i have a sneaking suspicion that i'm really not helping as i'm feeling the same as chulita, have fallen in love with bfing and am dreading giving up. (plus i don't want to miss out on the extra calories that i've been enjoying!) and now i'm back at work i can't face a crying baby in the middle of the night, and i just don't want to miss out on that special time with him. oh well. we're both happy. and the sleep deprivation isn't anywhere near as bad as it was. did i say that??

Hola all - just checking in again. DD has reliably gone down to two naps a day (a long 1 hour 40 in the morning and 40 mins in the afternoon), can now happily stay awake for 3 hours between sleeps (a miracle!) and is going to sleep about 6.30 - waking about 11 for a feed - and then getting up about 6/6.30. A miracle on many fronts. No second feed in the night - no 5/5.30 wake up call. Bizarrely although am getting more sleep than in the last year - I feel about a zillion times more knackered. V odd.

Flirting with the idea of trying to drop the 11 feed (only giving one boob for a week and then just shushing), but thinking am fine with one feed and let's just keep everything as it is at the moment (coward emoticon!).

So hearing Chulita and Satinesmassif on the bf front. I had no idea I'd still be feeding her at 8 months, and have decided against formula so looks like we're in for the long haul.

Hope all the babies are well

We were up all night again, teeth or something - that blows the 2 naps a day = a good night's sleep theory.
[stumbles off to put the kettle on] coffee anyone?

Uhhhh, last night was possibly the worst night since DS was brand new. He bounced around, bobbing on and off the boob until 8.15 last night. Woke at 9 (just as I was sitting down to my dinner) and then screamed like someone was pulling his arms off for two whole hours.

I was actually quite worried and got to the point where I stripped him off to check he hadn't been bitten or stung and moved all his limbs to make sure he hadn't hurt himself.

Gave Calpol, gave gripe water, took his temperature, changed the sheet on his bed, sang, rocked, fed, cuddled; he'd drop off on me and then HOWL as soon as I put him in his bed. Took him into bed with me and he just played. Left him to yell a bit and he just crescendoed until he started choking.

He finally exhausted himself at 11pm and then woke up again and screamed 45 mins later. Went back to sleep, did the same 1.5 hours later. Then did a couple of hours of proper sleep, then woke at 4am and screamed for an hour before going back down until 7.30.

All three of us are somewhat shell-shocked today! Christ knows what his problem was because he's not teething and he's fine now.

Chulita, DS dropped his third nap sbout two months ago and as far as I can tell, it made no difference at all to his sleeping at night. I think crawling has helped though coz when he's had a very active day he tends to sleep a bit better.

BTW, Fufulina, that is fantastic. I am vvv

Oh fg - that is rubbish. So sorry. How has he been today? I think one of the worst aspects about sleep is that when DD does something awful - I convince myself that's what she's going to be like for ever and spend the next day in a sleep deprived mess worrying about everything. And then she's all angelic and we're fine again but I never worry that good sleeping is here to stay...

Fufulina, that is so true. There's something about sleep deprivation that knocks every ounce of optimism out of you.

I was OK today really though, I've had worse. But I got really irked by DH whinging that he was tired, esp since I left him to have an extra hour's lie-in and he'd kept me awake snoring so I'd spent half the night in the spare room

DS had his 8 month check today and the HV asked about sleep and I just couldn't be arsed talking about it TBH. I get really irrationally annoyed with anyone suggesting anything or offering advice (with the exception of MNers ).

Yes YES some other normal mums having trouble with sleep. Mine DD is 2.5yrs and we have never had easy sleep. I just posted a thread to find out if others have tried dietry changes to see if that will help. She was 9mths before she slept 6hrs+, 12mths before we got the odd 10hrs in a row and now she is in a bed its hell again. She is up 30times in an hour, last night this went on for 3hrs. Sometimes I just feel like one of those desparate mums on supernanny, which prior to having a child I thought how can they let it get THAT bad. Now I know! I dropped out of the mums group I was in because I was SO exhausted all the time I couldnt 'do' coffee at 2pm was such a zombie from lack of sleep / felt a failure. MN only thing that kept me semi-sane ;)PS we have done everything sleep routine, quiet time, lots daylight, I finally found some 'inner peace' by just accepting that she was a lively one and adjusting as best we can too this oh and going back to work for a rest! She loves nursery and never stops all day they say.

Forgot to say even though this may not be popular my DD sleep improved when I stopped BF her at 9mths, it was very noticable she slept longer than 6hrs in a row once my boobie was not on demand. Plus it gave me back a huge amount of energy (once I had recovered from the Norvo Virus that took all my milk..another story). I think sleep problems are a lot more common than people think but you only hear about the 'good' ones not the ones like ours that are increadble hard work. I have friends who are having 2nd babies ie 2yr age gap and I am in disbelief but they all had 'sleepers' for the first ones and are not still walking zoombies like me.

Hi ssmile, sorry your DD's giving you stick. I have a nasty feeling that DS is going to be similar in a year or so. Even now he's the only baby at our BF group who's crawling all over the place, stealing other baby's toys and pulling their hair

Tonight I have told DH that I am leaving him some bottles and EBM, taking the breast pump and going to sleep at my mum's.

I have had enough.

fg - good for you! you should probably have done that a while ago... (i am a fine one to talk) and i hope you feel fully refreshed tomorrow.

ssmile - welcome! i dread appearing on supernanny in 12 months time....

FG I hope you got some rest at your mums. I know we still get so desparate for sleep we had a week last week that felt like it was when my DD was under 1yr. I used to feel so guilty if I wasnt on call 24/7 when she was

oh i have been listening to ds cry for 20 minutes - might not sound long to hardened cry listeners, but am fairly sure it's the longest i've left him. he really doesn't want anything other than the boob in his mouth. and not even that really. he's knackered. why won't he go to sleep???? can someone else come and listen for me??????

that sounds so pathetic in the cold light of day - 20 minutes!! i gave in though and gave him the boob. it really is a battle of wills, and i'm becoming afraid he's going to win!

Staines, we're in the same boat - it's been ages since DD cried like this and I'm not used to it. Feralgirl, DD is doing exactly the same thing as your DS. 9 months is a massive time for a schedule reshuffle I think, she's been a sleeping nightmare this week. We had her sat on the bed while we hoovered around her the other night because she just screamed unless she was either latched on or being cuddled. I don't know why she's doing it but it's a freaking PITA.
FG, I hope you got some sleep - no luck for me, DD has never taken anything at night except boob, EBM is only a daytime drink quite how I'm going to get her off boob by 12 months I have no idea!

staines don't let him bully you you're bigger than him.. oh who am I kidding - DD is clearly the boss of me...

I was exhausted yesterday, DH was out at the football so I was planning a REALLY early night. So, DD in bed at 7pm - I was just snuggling into my duvet and then she woke up screaming at 8.30 and wouldn't go back to sleep for nearly an hour. I have NO idea what the problem was - I changed her, cuddled her, gave her calpol for teething pain... eventually gave in and fed her even though it was a whole 90 minutes since her last feed. Sigh. She woke again at about 2 but went back to sleep after a cuddle from DH then slept til nearly 6, fed, and slept till nearly 8. Random.

The only thing I thought was that it was like she'd had a nightmare.. can babies have nightmares?? (she did have loads of cheese for dinner )

Yeah, so much for my night off.

DH and I went out for dinner and had an argument in the restaurant because I suddenly proclaimed "I don't want to leave DS tonight" and DH told me I was being ridiculous (which I was but it was the way he said it).

So I ended up somehow with DS in bed with me all night, at our own house, because he woke at 10.30 and screamed for half an hour refusing to settle anywhere except in my arms.

Naps have gone out the window as well. DS napped for 20 mins this morning (after having woken at 5am). His afternoon naps are now a charade of feed, settle, wake up after 20 mins, SCREAM until fed again, sleep a bit, wake, SCREAM and then just be awake and tired and evil for the rest of the afternoon.

WTF is going on and why has he started being a little sod the week before I go back to work? How does he know?!

Repeat the mantra:
These things will pass
These things will pass

Poor fg, hope tonight is a better one. I've had some success with naps using the NAPS plan book (can't remember exact title will check later if you are interested). Its written by proper doctor/sleep researcher and basically it's about using the baby's natural cycle of 90 min, so you put them down in multiples of that. 3 hours for DD in morning, 3 hours after that for next nap etc. Seems to work for DD but dunno if it's too obvious / you've tried already?

As for how he knows you're going back to work, reckon he's looked at your diary. Just like DD sets her alarm clock every night for the 4am feed (she sets it for 3.59). They may play all "oh i'm so innocent and helpless look I can't even blow my own nose" but the minute we're out of the room they're on the internet researching sleep deprivation torture methods, googling online milk providers and going through your email. You mark my words. I just had to catch her at it...