Support thread for those who were under the misguided illusion that their DC would sleep through by six mo - come and join!

[arthymum]

Did you assume that your DC would be sleeping through by the time they were 6 mo - and now you've hit the milestone you realise you were wrong, wrong, wrong as you stagger out of bed 1, 2, 3 times a night?

Do you sometimes can't help but wonder if you'd done things differently (BF/FF/stuck with the dreamfeed/co-slept/put them in their own cot/followed a GF routine/listened to your MIL ) you'd be getting more sleep?

Do you sometimes dread meeting up with other mums with perfect sleepers (especially when said babies are way younger and tinier than yours)?

Are you in a permanent state of confusion and doubt about whether to 'try' something or not (CC, ssh-patt, PUPD, NCSS etc.) but feel it's never the right time (teething, cold, too young) and not sure anyway whether you have the bottle/energy to see it through?

Do you hold out faint hopes that they'll sleep better when they're on solids/when the teeth come through/when they're another pound heavier/when they're in the new gro-bag/when they're on more solids - and each time - wrong again?

Do you mostly cope okay but every now and then feel tired and miserable and sorry for yourself and burst into tears at the postman or get into a petulant fight in Sainsbury's?

Do you secretly fear that you'll be on here in 3 years time, posting about the fact that you haven't slept for nearly 4 years?

Then come and join me! I've seen you lurking on other threads but feel that we need a place to congregate. Share your tears, tantrums, triumphs and tips - and hopefully one by one, we can all eventually disappear off the thread and into the land of nod....

Goodnight all sleepless babies and knackered mums. Baby Chu hasn't whimpered for 10 mins so I'm assuming [touch wood] that she's asleep for now. May you all have a brilliant night's sleep and wake up feeling rested and full of beans

Hope you were right Chulita and she slept well!

I'm a bit confused about naps at the moment. DD used to just do 45 mins or so three times a day. Which probably wasn't enough but nothing I could do about it. Now she's all over the place. Yesterday morning she slept for 2 hours (bliss!) and then two shorter naps in pm, which seemed ok, but today she's just woken up wailing at full throttle after 30 minutes. How many naps are 7 month olds supposed to need??

Well, while I was in here having a big grrr, DH was in with DS last night. After my hissy fit, I went in to DS and checked his nappy and he'd done a big sloppy poo which DH hadn't even thought to check! So presumably DS'd been refusing to settle because his tummy was gippy, so I feel like a suitably crappy mother now for my lack of sympathy for him

Kiwi, I dunno what they're supposed to have but DS now, more often than not, has two long naps (each for 2 hours or so) with a 3 - 3.5 hour break inbetween. He does still sometimes do two shortish and one long one though. I guess the nap-dropping is a gradual process.

Staines, I hear ya on the driving hallucinations. I clipped another car's wing mirror a couple of weeks ago while I was weaving around the road Just kept right on driving...

Hi all - hope everyone is well. I am rolling with the punches at the moment, so things seem easier. Naps - hmm. I thought she'd dropped one (from 3 to 2) but she only did that for 2 days and then reinstated her third nap. And the 5.15 wake up call. Little modom.

So - the question foxing me today is how do I know if she really does need milk in the night? I am keen to try and drop the middle of the night feed, but nervous as the last thing I want is for her to actually be hungry and me being all militant and shush pat when she just needs some calories. What does everyone reckon? She's fully breastfed (although the thought of formula is so alluring - at least I would know she was getting enough food in the day so could confidently hide boobs away at 2.30 am). ha - hide the boobies away? I think I mean tuck said boobs into waistband. Nice. Anyhoo - also BLW - but no idea how much fodd she is actually getting down her neck... Thoughts would be v welcome.

Hope all the babies are settling in for a good night.

Hah fufu, I'm in the same boat...4 feeds last night, one of which lasted 30 mins which is a record at the mo since most feeds are about 10 mins or less. DD's not feeding much during the day with teething pain and general distractions so I think she's making up for it at night but I'm wondering whether to try not feeding her. Last time I tried it she fought it for two nights til I gave in so I'm not wanting to do that again. I think if she's only latching on for a few sucks and then falling asleep you can safely say she doesn't need it, if she's feeding for 5 mins or more then she still needs the food. That's how I play it anyway, DD did drop two night feeds and then rediscovered them about 3 weeks ago All swings and roundabouts...

Hi Chulita - so so disappointing when they take a step back - although I suppose that's the expectation part of it. It's not a step back - it's a whole new phase... Even if I perceive it to be a step back! So last night she was asleep by 6.10, feed at 11, and then awake at 5. It's only the second time she has gone between the hours of 12 and 6 (I didn't feed her until 6.30) without a feed - and the other time was when she was approx 5 weeks old.

Don't know if it's because I've been doing the one boob thing at 2am, or what - but have felt drunk with sleep today.

Completely agree re: the two sucks and you're out rule although to be fair, DD hasn't done that for ages - my rule of thumb is when I pick her up - if she tries to latch onto my cheek (!) I take it as a sign she's hungry. Otherwise will try and settle her without a feed.

Anyway - am expecting the worst tonight - certainly not expecting the miracle of 5.30 hours of sleep that I had last night!

We were up a bit last night, DH went in at midnight armed with a bottle of ebm but DD screamed at him for 3hours 5 mins or so before I went and solved it by shoving a boob in her mouth...cue the 3 sucks and she was asleep . Same again at about 3 but without the DH intervention. She didn't need it but she certainly wanted it. DH couldn't wake up this morning and said it was due to him getting up to try and feed DD I gently reminded him that I've been doing it at least twice a night for the last 8 months but I still don't think he realised just how tiring it is!
DD won't settle without boob either at night, fine during the day but there's only one way to get her to close her eyes again at night and that's with boob, not bottle/cuddles/pats/shush or anything. She's got a cold today too so tonight's going to be a good one...
Well done for the mammoth sleep last night

Snap on the DH front. He does the morning shift at weekends and she was up at 5 today. Cue yawning, rubbing of eyes, general displeasure at being awake all day DH, not DD - I was bouncing off the walls with energy due to long (ha!) stretch last night. Also had the pointing out '7 months of this' chat today. I was - apparently - preaching to the converted. Hmm.

So hearing you on the settling Chulita - DD is brilliant in the day - goes down awake for all her naps without issue in cot, pushchair in cafes/restaurants - but at night, she wants boob. So odd. And haven't even tried EBM in the middle of the night (lazy mother emoticon) - it's just so much easier to feed for 10 mins and then we're all happy and back asleep. But my god - it does take it out of you. Although still trying to work out why 20 minutes awake in the night negates all the sleep you do get - IYSWIM.

Jesus - ramble ramble. Have had a couple of glasses of vino. Clearly taking their toll.

I'm avoiding the alcohol tonight, feel sleepy enough...is half 8 too early to go to bed?

So not too early! Am heading up now with book and Green & Black's. .

Have a good night with baby Chu.

Goodnight everyone! fufulina no choccy in the house - I'm on the Blackcurrant jelly cos that's all we've got left

Hello chulita and fufulina - I haven't been on this thread for a while as dd has been getting much better over the last month but I have to report that her sleeping has improved dramatically as the formula has gone up and the bf down. In fact, she had her last bf on her 9m 'birthday' which I feel a bit sad about as she is my last but she is now sleeping through the night. [crosses fingers and toes that she hasn't jinxed it]

Another thing which definitely helped about a month ago was the rest of the family going away for one night which I took advantage of to let her scream - a bit of cold turkey after reducing night time feeds down to one. I don't know about you but I can't help feeling on edge when baby screams at night and was probably getting up too quickly to settle her. Fufulina - i think that the night time feeding is a vicious cycle because they fill up on calories at night so don't take as much in the day and so on and so on.

She now has a 6am cup of milk before going back down till 9 (well, it is the school holidays!) and then one nap around lunchtime which I get her up from after one hour if she is still asleep. She then goes down at about 8.30pm.

I wouldn't have believed this a month ago so do keep trying and I'll pray that this isn't a blip!

Hi all. DD was also much better.. until a few nights ago. I'm actually losing the will to live - she is SO grumpy all the time at the moment. Does anyone else have days where they think everyone else's baby is happier than theirs? No? Just me? Honestly she's just non-stop grumbling at the moment, howls the minute I put her down anywhere. She's got a cold but it really doesn't seem that bad (no temp) and seems to be constantly rubbing her eyes, too. I am not enjoying her at ALL at the moment and feeling guilty about that.

Aw kiwiP - don't feel guilty about not enjoying her, all mums have felt like that at some point. One lady said to me when DD was first born that she always loved her babies, she just didn't like them til they were about 4...I understand what she meant
DD's got a cold exactly like your DD's - (bit of a temp), constantly rubbing her eyes, dribbly nose and sneezes but not as bad as some she's had. She's always jolly though, not much makes her grumpy. Today she wanted permanent cuddles so if I put her down she was grumpy but I spent the day on the computer anyway so she sat on my knee and bashed the table
DH was trying to convince his best friend that he should have a child:"honestly, sometimes she proper pisses me off but she's adorable" don't think it worked...
Last night was alright so I'm hoping for a miracle sleep tonight as a follow-up - I'm shattered at the mo. Shouldn't have had that glass of red, I'm really fuzzy-headed now

aah, kiwi i really feel for you. i've come to the conclusion that it's really unnatural for us to look after children alone in the home.

i'd love to be a sahm, but would want a nanny and a cleaner to feel like i could do it well and enjoy it. it's undoubtedly the hardest job i've ever done - and used to work 80hrs+ in a hotel. alternatively, i think we should live communally so that there's always someone there to give you the 5 minutes that you just don't get when it's you and a baby.

this also ties in with my theory that we really shouldn't live with men, but in parallel communities that we can visit when we like - but that's for another thread!

i feel like i've given up on getting ds to sleep in his cot at the moment - his bed has moved into his room - unfortunately i haven't the willpower to force him to stay in it! neighbours had a party on saturday night so i gave up at 12 and brought him in with me and last night he just wanted the boob at 11.30 and i was too tired/achey to fight it, so another night in with me.

i have grown to hate the phrase 'rod for your own back'!!!

At last, just what I need this morning! My DD was 1 yesterday and although we are only up with her once in the night she is awake for a 2hour stretch.

On Friday I got her off to sleep at 5.15 having been up with her since 3.15 and DS who is 3 wwandered in at 5.45 all bright eyed and bushy tailed and wanting to read stories

I'm at my wits end as DH works shifts and he and snark at each other all the time as we are both so exhausted....

Sorry, what I also meant to say was that in the last 12 months she has probably slept through 3 or 4 times......

I love her to bits but at the moment I could happily give her away

Her birthday was miserable as everyone in the house was so grumpy!

Hi all - 2cats2kids - so sorry you're having a rough time of it. I feel like a fraud because I only have one. Cannot imagine juggling two. So - the long stretch hasn't been repeated [although I wasn't expecting it to be really emoticon], but she's had a couple of good nights - feeding about 11.30/12 and then about 4. Far more civilised. And continuing with the one boob only at the 4ish feed. She's falling asleep after a few minutes so I think we may be ready to try the DH settling at that wake up at the weekend to see if no proximity to milk bar does the trick.

Another NCT baby has started sleeping through - and his mum and I do the same stuff - she's never done CC, or anything like that so am holding out hope that one day, it will happen. Only thing they did was her DH settled him at the weekend. One setlle only and he then slept a straight 9 hours. A miracle!

Hope all the babies are settling well and we're all in for a good night.

Last night was like having a new baby back in the house....asleep at 7pm (yippee!) awake at 10.30 for an hour then awake again at 4.00 finally fell asleep on DH at 5.15....and we all get up at 6.30 to go to work and nursery!

I'm hoping last night was partly due to her boosters....but I'm not holding breath

Has anyone heard of the "baby sleep system" by Wendy Dean?

So back to work..

Hey hey all, haven't posted for a while not because DS is miraculously sleeping through but for the complete opposite reason; I am a zombie who can't focus or co-ordinate fine motor skills as a result of exhaustion. Today I kind of forgot that I'd left DS rolling around and playing on my bed, left the room for a sec and was reminded by the loud thud and even louder screams when he hit the floor like a sack of spuds

Jeez, I am a terrible mother.

DS's cold has dragged on for two weeks, and his diarrhoea is still making its presence felt (according to the dr, they're related) so every morning at 3am-ish I get treated to a nappy full of runny poo and an hour and a half of trying to settle a wide awake baby.

Those fabulous three weeks where DS was only feeding once a night seem like a very dim and distant memory. DH and I have also had the screaming match talk about my not having had a full night's kip in nearly 8 months but he just can't appreciate how that will turn a person into an irrational, snappy cow whose marriage has ceased to be top of her priority list.

Staines I will gladly join you in your commune thingy, but only if my DH lives in a commune far far away...

DS is something else, 3 now and I constantly bedhop around the house. Last night, he had some nightmare and refused to sleep unless he was on top of me - not just in bed, but actually on me. I put it down to a June birth and so being disturbed by all the light.

Feral and others - Per my post here www.mumsnet.com/Talk/sleep/796981-Advise-me-please-before-I-lose-all-sense-of-reason?msgid=16304535 I am in the midst of dark days too. Going on 3 hours now since bedtime and he hasn't fallen asleep for more than 10 minutes. There must be something wrong, poor guy. But Calpol not seeming to make a jot of difference. I basically haven't slept in a week and am also fending off well meaning family who are all trying to "help". Have been without DH for nearly 3 weeks, but he is joining me on Thursday thankfully. Sympathy all around to others having a difficult time.

I realise this may be old news - but for anyone with a 'screamer' - if you haven't already tried, give a cranial osteopath a go. DS is generally pretty happy, but has a tendency to colic and can be inconsolable in the evenings. We went to a new one last week and she was wonderful - very holistic - asked how i was and made me cry (!) - but it was actually a good thing, as she made me think about how i am feeling and what i can do about it.

if i can't force him to sleep through the night - i can't - i had to think about what would make me feel better, so am trying to focus more on me. and ds is more relaxed since our second session - we went into london on monday and i had the best day with him yet - i had fun, so did he and it is a memory i will really treasure.

round our way, one session costs about 30 pounds - i realise this is quite a lot of money, but i haven't heard anyone say a bad word about it, so if you can, i'd definitely recommend having a go.

ps, i am not on commission from the national council of cranial osteopaths.

pps - FG - communal living still definitely the answer!

pps FG - isn't having your baby roll off the bed some kind of mum badge of honour? i thought it was a developmental milestone....

Momormum, I love your plan for the coming month and I am going to hijack it!

This month DS has gone from being a baby who will settle himself every time he goes down for a nap and quite often at night too - and those naps would always be at least an hour long - to needing to be fed to sleep every time. He doesn't settle in the evenings like he used to and is generally being a pita. I know it's mainly down to teeth and having been ill but the second he is better, I am getting tough again.

I feel like we are back where we were at 4 mo and I am a total harridan because of it.

Staines we went to a chiropractor (who said he did the same as a CO) but tbh I haven't noticed any lasting effects. Maybe we'll try a proper CO once I'm back on full pay. I really need someone to tell me to focus on myself and what would make me feel better!