NEW Support thread for those non sleeping toddlers 18-24 months!!

[andyrobo237]

Just thought I would start a support thread -no hostility in here, jsut good old plain advice and friendly support for all us suffering with poor sleeping kiddies!

DS is 21 months and luckily I can get him to start the night in his cot, and he sleeps for 3-5 hours on his own, and then he wakes up asking for me, so for an easy life, and yes I like the snuggles, he comes in with us. He will then sleep until 7am when we get up. He eats ok and has one sort nap in the day (less than an hour), and has a run around after tea, and then we do the following (for we read I as DH is a waste of space!):

Between 6 - 6.30pm bath with big sister - lots of fun and splashing and have to prize him out

6.30 - 6.45 he is given his beaker of milk downstairs and he drinks what he likes

6.45 - 7pm he goes in his grobag on my knee and we read, he snuggles and has more of his milk - sometimes drinks it all, or leaves a bit

7pm - take him to his room - he happily goes. I put him in cot, kiss, and then sit in the chair in his room with low light, no speaking (I read a book) and within 10 mins he is asleep

7.10 or so - creep out, pull door to and go downstairs to DD who is 6

I used to have a bath around 9 to 9.30 but he would always wake after that, so I have a quick shower after their bath, so I dont disturb him!

He has been waking around 12am these past few days, previously it was 10.30 to 11 ish, so at least we have gained an hour of peace! He wakes up stands up in cot and shouts for me, which if you ignore becomes a cry and sobbing, which fortunately doesnt wake his sister usually. I then bring him into our bed and he settles until 6.30 to 7am, when we get up.

He is not tired when we get up and we get up the same time every day even weekends as DD has early morning activities. I just cant get him to stay in his own bed longer. Have tried the early evening routime again (without the milk) and he does appear to go back to sleep, but when I move he springs up!!!

THis is not as bas as what some people have to cope with, but it is not what we want, I needmy sleep and prefer to have half a kingsize bed not the corner!

We will support eachother and get these toddlers to sleep better!!!

I'm just going to cut and paste the msg I've left on our thread because I can't be faffed typing it again, hold on.

This is most of it - the rest is just for the May 07ers! My usual drivel!

She had her bath and a lovely play, and then had her bottle in my room, but I didn't switch the TV on or anything, just lay there shushing her while she drank it. I then took her to her cot and she started screaming. So after half an hour (I did keep checking on her), I let her have the rest of her bottle in our bedroom, and then took her back to her cot, where she went to sleep at 8.10pm. Time taken: 1.5 hours

She woke up at half ten, and got in our bed with us quite happily, then woke up at 12.15am and started her usual 'pointing at the door' routine. We listened to her scream and tried to calm her down, all the while gently telling her that she wasn't going downstairs, and that it was bedtime. We ended up putting her back in her cot after about half an hour. Every time I went in, she just screamed louder, so I was leaving her for five minute intervals, and then going in. After about an hour, M decided to 'man up', and went in to her. He told her to stop crying, and said that if she stopped crying, she could come and get in with mummy and go to sleep. She said she would, but then started again, so he took her back to her cot, then had the same conversation again. She then came back in and went to sleep at 1.35am. Time taken: 1 hour

She then had to be woken up by me at 7am.

I know it's not a huge victory, but for me, I wanted to break the habit of coming downstairs in the middle of the night, so I had that in mind as my goal. Which we managed to achieve. (I also managed to upset my mum as I text her at 1.15am and she is now not speaking to me, understandably. Think I just wanted some reassurance!)

So now I feel confident that tonight although we may have the same thing, I know that we can be strong and NOT come downstairs. Once that is cracked, it's on to staying in her cot all night.

Well done pink jenny!!

Thanks notyummy, not a HUGE step forward, but going in the right direction.

That sounds like a huge improvement in one night. Well done. (And no vomiting - hooray )

It's a start!

PinkJenny (although your nights sound awful..if that's an improvement!)
T slept last night from midnight to 7 when I woke him up. Not gloating (much!) but this time last week he was waking every couple of hours and couldn't self-settle at all, so things can improve drastically, very quickly!

That's brilliant SPB. Keep me informed!

Well done you Stealth! I just peeked at your profile and ohmigod he is sweet I like the hedgehog cake too.

Have been reading your thread for last couple of days and you all sound so supportive to one another. Wondered if you could offer any advice to me and my little night owl? My dd is 17 months and has never actually slept through the night. My first daughter slept through from about 5 months, but had to be rocked to sleep until was about 2yrs old. This time round I was adamant that wouldn't rock to sleep and as a result had baby in moses basket upstairs from 2 wks old settling herself to sleep. Great, I thought,I've cracked it! However, almost a year and a half on I haven't progressed at all: I have a baby who goes down like a dream at 7.30 each night and stays asleep till somewhere between midnight and two am when she cries - no actually screams - until we go to her. We lie her down and shush her, she goes off for ten mins and then stands up in cot screaming again. This would go on all night if we let it. Instead, I give in and give her a bottle of milk. She will take 9oz, so not like she is messing about with it, she really does want it(She is not always a good eater in day though so maybe that's why?). She'll then go off to sleep again till about five, when I am in and out to her till around seven. I have done controlled crying on several occasions but she doesn't really seem to respond that well to it. Also, our other daughter wakes up and gets upset (as do not very understanding neighbours!)When I get her milk in the night, I have always brought her down with me for same reason (she has an extremely loud cry, more of a scream really). She is not a very cuddly baby unless she is in a cuddly mood herself, if you see what I mean, so I find it difficult to comfort her in the night. She also will only have her milk from a bottle which I know is not good for her teeth at this age.
I think I need to stop the night feeds, stop going into her, stop using a bottle.....I just don't know where to start!
I really thought I would have the sleep issue sorted this time round; feel like such a failure that I can't prevent the whole family having sleepless nights! When will she sleep through?!!!
Sorry this post is so long!

Berrysmum - welcome. I didn't want your post to go unanswered, but as you can see, I am in NO position to give advice.

Bumping for you.

Thank you! I think you are doing brilliantly. I nearly didn't post as everyone else on mumsnet with sleep problems seems to be talking about their six month old baby not sleeping through, etc. Nice to know am not alone with a tinker of a toddler! Will be back on this evening, going to pick up from school x

berrysmum - you are in the same position as me, but DS doesnt get to the screaming stage, as I am in there like a flash when he starts shouting - to save waking up the rest of the house! It is usually 10 - 12 here though! He does ask for milk, but I usually refuse, unless he has only had a little at 7pm. Last night I decided to give him a quick cuddle and then put back in cot, and he seemed to settle, until I got up to leave the room, like a jack-in-the box, so I took him into my bed, where he stayed and wriggled all night! I do think he is still suffering with the last few teeth, but DH said that we need to change what we were doing - not ofering to try himself though! He is apparently tired in work - like I am not, and anyway I do two jobs - the paid 8 - 4 one and the other 24 hour one that is unpaid!!! I reckon 4 out of nights I am pputting the two of them to bed myself, and when he is here, he complains that he wants to watch the football when I ask him to put DD to bed!

Anyway, I will be implementing change, after I get rid of this cold and have had a minor leg op at the beginning of December when I am off sick, so dont need to concentrate at work all day!!

Pinkjenny - last night sounds like a minor triumph in your household - do I take it that your DH is a useful as mine??!!

Andyrobo - my dh helps out with putting ours to bed but during the night is totally useless. I know he wakes up but if I waited for him to get out of bed she would be totally screaming the house down! Last night she was really going for it at about midnight (she is full of cold at the minute too so particularly unsettled) and I stumbled downstairs with her, got milk, knocked it all over fridge and had to clean it up, got medicine - all whilst trying to stop her crying. It drives me insane that he doesn't come to help!
I have just ordered the No Cry Sleep book to see if that will help.
Do you work full time? I do three days a week and if I have had no sleep it kills me!

Just wanted to say thanks for this thread. I don't feel quite so alone now with non sleeping DD. I thought I was the only one that this was happening to. DH has been away so have had it alone for two nights and now he is off to the *** Scotland match. I am 25 weeks pregnant and not sure how I am going to cope with 2. At the moment she is watching Noddy on Sky plus as it is the only thing that would stop her crying. Not sure this is in any of the manuals.

rmc77 that must be really tough on you. Pregnancy is tiring enough without losing sleep too, eh? You may be luckier with your second and get a really good sleeper. My two couldn't be more different in all aspects of behaviour and temperaments!

Thanks Berrysmum I think I am probably getting it all out of proportion but sometimes I find it really tough. I honestly thought all the other toddlers in the world were asleep and whilst I'm sorry others are having difficulties..I'm not blaming myself so much now.

Everyone I know seems to have fantastic sleepers. It's embarrassing! I have stopped telling them about mine now as one of the girls at work bought me a Gina Ford book and was really supportive when we tried controlled crying....still didn't work though! I really don't feel like I can leave her to cry; and it honestly does make her worse in the long run. I feel like if I don't go to her within a few minutes that I am letting her down somehow. And, I know it may sound stupid, but since all this awful publicity about that poor little baby 'p' I can't help thinking about him when she cries. He was 17 months old too. Know it isn't at all connected; and am sure it's just weird emotions due to being awake at unearthly times but somehow giving her a cuddle when she cries makes me feel better.
I think I had better go to bed, am beginning to lose the plot (overtired?)
Hope you manage to coax your little one back into bed once Noddy has finished. My fun will all start in a couple of hours! x

Ooh can I join? My DD is 20 months old.

Her sleep has actually improved - was waking several times until I brought her into bed with me. Nowadays she'll sleep from 8pm to say, 12, 1 or even 2 on a very good night. What really helped was this link

Now DD will wake up about 4 or 5am and will want a BF. Normally she'll be patted to sleep but now I have to let DH try to settle her but she can be so stubborn!

She's still BF to sleep initially at 8pm so I wonder if this is part of the problem? People look at me as though I have two heads if I mention that DD still doesn't sleep through... thanks for reading this rather rambling post

Hi berrysmum, I missed your last post as DD fell asleep on sofa in front of Noddy ...I then switched it to Desperate Housewives and sat with her sleeping on sofa until her Dad got home and then he moved her. Not suggesting this is a great technique but it was Noddy or my sanity. I sometimes feel like a Desperate Housewife! Like you, I find it very difficult to let her cry as well. Hope you got some sleep last night.

We had a minor miracle last night - he slept from 7 until 10pm in his own bed!!!! THen I managed to get him back off to sleep - took 20 mins - and then crept to my bed - expecting him to wake at any time...... but he woke at 4.30am asking for milk!!!!! I was a bit tired at 4.30am, but he came in with us and woke again at 7.15am!!!

Just need to be firm again tonight - he had a quick cuddle and was put back in his cot, and then was told to go to sleep in his cot as that is where he sleeps, like his big sister who sleeps in her own bed! I wandered in and out of his room while he was crying, but he finally flung himself down and settled to sleep!

Lets see what tonight brings!

That's brilliant andyroby237. What an achievement! You just need to be consistent now and hopefully you'll be sorted out!

We had exactly the problem last night that I knew we'd have - dd refused to go to sleep in her cot. Now, I say I knew this would happen, purely because when she had cried the night before, we'd put her in her cot, so it seemed like a 'punishment' to her, I guess. What it actually was was a way for us to diffuse the situation and stop her crying by giving her the choice of getting back in with us.

So she slept with us, but she slept all night. Dh didn't get in until 9.45pm, so this weekend, together (!), we will tackle the 'starting the night in your own cot' issue.

One step forward, two steps back!

Berrysmum - firstly i wouldn't worry about bringing her downstairs. I do this too cos I don't want the whole house awake. But I have stopped allowing him to play with any toys, look at any books or have the TV on cos when I let him do that I realised he was waking much more often. I think when he was waking instead of self settling he was thinking hmmm if I cry I get to play so I'm going to cry rather than get myself back off to sleep.

Secondly I wouldn't worry about the bottle yet. DS has used a doidy with help from 3 months but wouldn't go near a sippy cup til nearer 2. My dentist said most sippy cups are actually no better than bottles. He said the only sippy cups that won't damage teeth are those that say they are dentist approved on the packaging. The only ones he knew of were Avent magic cups and TT easiflow but there might be others. DS finally learned to use the magic cups at just under 2. We tried the TT ones but he could pull the spout and would soak himself.

Just wondering do you offer water or juice before you offer milk?

Berrysmum - the only thing with coming downstairs (if you read my earlier posts) is that it spirals quite quickly.

We went from a night of coughing and so letting dd come downstairs, to watching Mr. Tumble on two separate occasions in the middle of the night, every night for a week and a half.

But do what feels right, you'll know when it's time to try and break the habit, as we've just had to do.

And dd (18mo) will not entertain the idea of milk in a cup. She just spits it straight out.

pink - we managed to get DS to start the night in his cot by me taking him to bed and putting him in and then I sit in the chair in his room until he goes to sleep. The idea was that I was there but he couldnt touch me, and I dont look at or speak to him - I read a book or magazine - ir takes 10 minutes max for him to go to sleep. He now says, mummy in chair, mummy read book! I thought it would be a nightmare, but he is happy with that, and so am I. Also if he does come down at night (when we are still up) then he is not allowed on the floor or to play with toys or read books, etc. So it is boring and he is happy to go back to bed. I do agree that consistency is the key.

We did have a problem a few months ago where he did not want to go in his cot, but I kept putting him in there at a weekend to have a play - I pushed things through the bars and he was laughing and psuhing them out, so he doesnt associate it as a bad place to be.

It is hard as there seem to be so many other people who have seemingly perfect babies - but my friend has two teenagers who were great as babies, but are horrors as they got older - answering back, etc - so maybe we will all have the perfect teenagers!!!!

We will get them to sleep - I would like it to be this side of christmas though, as we are going away for New Year!!