SLEEP IS FOR THE WEAK PART 8 -- Pack the bags under your eyes and join us!

[RoRoMommy]

Well...I had to think of something! DH's suggestion "Eyes wide shut--the art of sleepwalking"

Good luck for the return to work Rose. How you feeling?

Good luck with work, Rose . DH did most of the childcare when I first went back (he;s now at the CM 2 days a week and DH does the other 2 days) - it worked out well for us.

S & S: welcome . We've all been through it was non-sleeping babies: DS now sleeps pretty well at night (he's 16 mo) but has taken to waking earlier in the morning and shrieking . 5:30 this morning (bleary).

Hi everyone! Sorry, it happened again with the quick hello and disappearing act. Work has been mad, and DH has been on-and-off doing annoying to downright disappointing things, then being Mr. Perfect for a day, then back again. We have a therapy session for tonight, but he's refusing to "rehash" what's gone on this week (sneaking beers behind my back, sleeping in on Saturday and refusing to take DS, even though that's MY time, staying at work until 9pm without calling for two hours) because he wants to "look forward" and "focus on the positive". I am stiff-upper-lip it all because I want things to improve and this seems like what he needs...

but I digress. Sleep has been on-and-off, too. Last night wasn't bad, DS still feeds quite a lot at night, and since I am gone during the day I am reluctant to cut back, but am I doing something that will harm him in the long run? Not sure. Advice appreciated.

He's cut two teeth since Christmas (nothing on Meg's DS!), and they've been REAL doosies. Also, it's been two colds back-to-back that he's just now getting over since we returned from NYC (seems like ages ago). But overall he's still my happy, sweet little guy!

We have an appointment on Monday morning with a cranio-osteopath, and in the afternoon with his GP (private now because we have insurance and NHS bunged up his last immunizations by letting the batch go bad so now he has to get them re-done, as if the first time wasn't bad enough!).

That's all! I will try to catch up on everyone's happenings throughout the day, but for now hello to EP, ginger, CM, Meg, Amber and the newbies, too!

Hi RoRo! Quickie as at lunch and need to go and get some work done I'd say you;re being v sensible about the counselling thing, if your DH isn;t addressing stuff this may get picked up on by the counseller and then it's productive counselling rather than you nagging and you come out on top (yay!). Was posting on another thread about marriages and sleeplessness and someone said they got through by pretending their DH was a work colleague so they had to be polite etc. ratehr than screaming and throwing things as per inclination. Think there's a lot of truth in that. Not sure you can do much in teh first year or so other than try and be kind to each other

How old is your DS now? I wouldn;t have been happy giving up on night feeds before a year, but I know others have had a different experience (esp Meg)

Can I join in this thread please as I really need some support re sleep, or should I say lack of!

I'm sure my situation isn't as bad as others - but I sure would like it to improve! DD2 is 14 mths old and always wakes at least once during the night for a feed. Typically this is the killer time of 4.30am (I know she's done really well getting from 6.30 - 4.30) but DD1 is 2yr 9mth and typically wakes around 5.30am - so we're a v tired household.

DD1 was always a fantastic sleeper but as she never latched on, I exclusively expressed for her for a year. DD2 however is still exclusively breastfed and I used to feed to sleep - if I'm honest, I still do at times. So that's been one difference, apart from them obviously being two completely different people!

I can't do CC - have never tried but it's just not for me - and I can't let her make too much noise as she might wake up DD1. She does have some teeth coming through - but they appear to have been on the go for around 3 mths now and are showing no signs of breaking through. I've got NCSS but I guess I'm looking for the magic answer!

She will put herself to sleep generally after her feed accompanied by the words "Bed time. Night night". Oh and day time naps - rubbish for me but great for the childminder. Doesn't kick up a fuss at all - whereas with me, she feels like she's really missing out by being asleep.

Any help???

Shivs: not sure how much help I can be as we finally tried CC as DS was waking up every 1-2 hours at 15 mo. If it's only 1 waking and your DD goes back to sleep nicely, is there any way of shifting the time? Could you try a dreamfeed when you go to bed (never worked for us as DS woke up and just fed more often after that). Or could you adjust the bedtime?

Alternatively, if you want to drop the feed altogether could you get your partner to comfort her when she wakes up, in the hope that she'll realise you're not going to feed her at night? That would prob involve crying, so your call

Hi Shivs, I'm staggered that you expressed for a year. What an amazing thing to do because it must have been a real chore.

Have you tried co-sleeping? Or what about putting your two DD's in a bed together? would that work? Is she genuinely hungry at 4.30? I find my DD really is ready for milk at 5.30 but I can get away with it before that time. Could you try and move her bed time to 7-7.30? Also, what is she sleeping during the day? My DD will these days sleep for hours if I let her but I try and wake her after two because any more than that does impact her sleep.

Sorry lots of questions

Amber / EP I was going to link to the blog in the new blog page (at the top) but I'm not sure how the thing works. Perhaps you with your greater wisdom of wordpress can do it.

please help i have one who doesnt go to sleep till about midnight and wakes up constantly till morn and another we have nicknamed 'crack of dawn' because she wakes a 5 am everyday im like a zombie how do i get them to stay asleep or at least go back !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi TSG's tell us a bit more about them. How old are they, what are the specific problems? You say one doesn't go to bed until late, why is that. How do you currently deal with it?

dd2 is 10 months and im sure she thinks sleep is for the weak she is just a bundle of energy am dealing with it at the min by juggling nap time aroud to see if by a different sleep pattern during the day helps at night ! she just wakes constantly from 7-12 crying !
and dd1 is 3 and is very good at going to sleep about 7-7.30 and sleeps through but wakes before 6 everyday i can handle after 6.30 but not before tried later to bed tried making her lie down in the morn telling her its still night time and she just lies shouting im bored now mummy im not tired now can we go down yet grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

if it was one or the other i would be ok but with both it means im gettin max 4 hours and with work and everything im sooooo tired

Thanks for the replies....yes, it typically is only one waking and she generally does go back to sleep nicely. I'm not overly convinced that she is starving hungry at this time and I think it now might be more habit. I could get dh to go in - problem is that he isn't as patient as I am - perhaps that should read soft touch - and rather than shushing and being calm he ends up leaving her - which means I just stay awake even longer. And he's a really loud snorer so isn't sleeping properly himself anyhow...
She's generally sleeps 2hrs in the morning with the childminder and is out cold - so definitely needs it. When with us (3 days) it's generally 50mins - 1.5 hrs again in the morning....
Was thinking of contacting Andrea Grace to see if a sleep programme would help. Will let you know...

Hello... can I join you too? My DS (4mo) is not sleeping at night and it seems to be getting worse. I have no idea where to begin... anyone want to summarise the last 8 threads?!!!!

very quick hello. DH has just gone away until Friday and was away last week!! Will try to get time to post tomorrow as I am watching Atonement tonight and taking DD to a party after lunch. Hello to all the new folk you are in good hands on this thread lots of non judgemental support.

Hi folks, sorry haven't been about - only working part-time but I've hardly had a moment's peace (I think my boss thinks part-time means I can do the same amount of work twice as fast ). I'm dreading going to full time in a week.

Welcome to newbies. To yetihed (I feel qualified to answer your question!) - my DS is now 6.5 months and I remember 4 months as being really desperate. I think he was around that age when I joined this thread. I am pleased to say in the course of his 5th month he improved in leaps and bounds and his 6th month was a real pleasure. He still needs rocked or fed to sleep, but I'm able now to feed him until sleepy and then put him down and pat him off to sleep. Which is staggering progress, honestly! When you say not sleeping, is he waking frequently, hard to settle or crying a lot? How do you feed him? Does he nap?

Power to you Shivs for expressing for a year - I've been doing it for a week and it's the pits!

DS has been a star - still waking every 2-3 hours but so easy to settle (relatively, but I'm not complaining!). I'm not happy working though - the job's fine but I appear to have lost my previously eternal patience for the politics and spectacular inefficiency of my workplace. I spent 5 long years earning my qualification and now I am seriously considering jacking it in and working for Tesco. At least I'd get an idea of my rota more than 2 days in advance!

Are all you seasoned SIFTWers getting some shut-eye?

Hi Ladies. I need your opinion. I've been reading the millpond sleep clinic book and it suggests giving bedtime milk before a bath so as to disassociate milk with sleep. I'm not sure how that will work out or if I will be able to keep doing that when I'm back at work. So, I was wondering if you think that cleaning DD's teeth after her bedtime feed will work equally as well?

Swaliswan, I've always been a slacker and given DS milk right before bed because it makes him so much easier to settle. But it's a fair enough point to try to dissociate feeding with falling asleep and IMO teeth cleaning would be fine or reading a book or whatever, as long as there is something between the milk and going down to bed.

Hello again and thanks for the warm welcome... wish I could offer help to someone else, but sadly 2SG I have no strategies to offer you (yet)- sorry! I'm sure someone else on here will come up trumps.

It's lovely to be on a thread where I'm not worried that someone's going to tell me they got their LO to sleep through from 4 weeks and now it's bliss!

To IARCFB- Hi! Thanks for asking! I have heard a few people in various places around MN say 4 months can be tricky sleep wise- not sure why! Well, my little boy slept pretty well from birth and seemed to instantly understand day and night, which is a blessing. At night, he was doing 4/5 hours in a row and I was in heaven! Now, he goes down at about 9, often wakes at 10, then will sleep for a maximum of 2 hours through the night- sometimes waking every hour/ 40 minutes. At 7am he is bright as a button and smiley regardless of what has gone on, so it doesn't seem to be affecting him as much as me. I have a feeling that might be because I am sacrificing my sleep so he gets his!

Sometimes it seems to be because he's windy (top or bottom ends), sometimes he's starving, sometimes he falls asleep the second I pick him up, sometimes he won't resettle and then we co-sleep (can't feed him this way though coz he's a nipple muncher, so I have to sit up and do it properly or I wake in the morning with very sore breast ends!), sometimes no apparent reason! Noise doesn't seem to bother him particularly.

I have tried avoiding picking him up but as soon as he gets the idea I'm not going to pick him up he starts losing it. CC is not for me!

In the day he sleeps in the pram, mostly, but at night he needs feeding to sleep. He has a morning and afternoon nap of about 40 minutes, and a slightly longer one of 2 hours at lunchtime (usually, but sometimes doesn't manage this either). Not sure where to begin!? Does this sound familiar to people???

Hello all, it'll have to be a quick one.

Sorry if this sounds brief and abrubt!!

Rose: Wanted to say something supportive re. being back at work but not sure what to say!! It will get better I always find the first 3 weeks after maternity leave the worst!

Swaliswan: I def. think it is important for your baby to self settle. (although I know people who feed their babies to sleep with no problems). We did do cc with DS2 but not until he was 7 months. Now if he falls asleep feeding now I pick him up and wake him up a bit before I put him in his cot. It feels mad to do this, but he sleeps better this way.

Yetihed: I can't offer much in the way of practical advice. Like Rose I know how you feel DS2 sounds very much like your Lo. I felt with DS2 that all his frequent feeding at night was actually making his wind worse and he hasn't had the wind problems since he has stopped being fed at night. But we had to use cc to achieve this and when he woke at night Dh had to go into him because my presence would send him ballistic! I understand you not wanting to use cc and i definitely couldn't have at 4 minths anyway so I am afraid I'm not much help at all!!! Sorry. But you have my thoughts and support because I know how hard it is.

Phew! that was meant to be a quick post. Hello to everyone. I hope you are having nights of beautiful sleep!!!

Hello ladies - am also struggling to cope with DS 8 months was sleeping through til 4ish then waking for a feed and going back to sleep, suddenly seemed to decide that the 4am wake up should signal the start of the day, only realises after an hour of cuddling, feeding and stroking that needs to go back to sleep. So a couple of weeks ago I decided no more getting out of the cot between bedtime and the morning (am going back to work in 2 weeks so need to try and sort something out). Well now he wakes a couple of times (1115 / 2am) and settles quickly and then is still awake for over an hour at 3.30 / 4 / 4.30am. I started giving him a bottle whenever he wakes to settle him, but that didn't change anything except impact how much he ate in the day, so now only give water in the night.

Have reached point where have started to try CC but it is so hard, I always find him standing in the cot, and he cries so hard he falls over and am worried he will hit his head. Has only been one night - last night, and tonight made concious effort to feed him during Night Garden, then bath, then story with the last of his bottle but he went into the cot awake - just - and settled ok. Am hoping by putting him down awake, and then doing some CC when he wakes in the early hours it might knock it on the head.

Feel pretty selfish though as if I wasn't going back to work I don't think I would have resorted to CC. Have read No Cry Sleep Solution cover to cover and tried various techniques but he still struggle to settle himself - even for naps unless in the car or buggy.

Any advice welcome, will keep posted on progress. Need to go to bed now as knackered and will no doubt be up in a couple of hours for the first resettle which thankfully is normally pretty straightforward (dummy, pat, stroke head and he is off)- although he wasn't waking at all between bedtime and 4 until I started not picking him up at 4.

Feel like I have created a monster - although he has never slept through for me - did once when we went away overnight and my Mum was here!!

Hello everyone, we've been away for the weekend.

To all the new folk. This is a summary of my experience and advice. Sorry I haven't got much time to elaborate.

Basically, 17 mnth old DD who has slept through a handful of times since 13 months. At 4 months she went from one waking per night to about a million. Since then it's been a cycle of brief respite and then brief unsettled periods notably 6/7 months, 9 months and then 12 months. DD has slept so much better since about 13 months. (I found developmental changes ie standing, walking etc really disrupted sleep for a while too)

I began at 4 months trying baby whisperer methods and NCSS but to no avail. BW made matters a lot worse. I decided at this point to quit trying so hard because I believed I was teatering on the edges of PND. My obsession with trying to get DD to sleep was consumming me. I gave up and started co-sleeping during the night and was instantly more relaxed. At about 9 months I stopped night feeds hoping that would help but it made no difference. My DD stopped feeding to sleep herself really early on and again that made no difference.

I've done gradual retreat aka Millpond and we did have some early successes however some nights she would settle herself some nights need cuddling to sleep and I could find absolutely no relationship between how she fell asleep and how many times she'd wake. Learning to stand put a stop to that though as she'd be bobbing up and down in the cot all the time. Instead I dumped the cot and got her a matress on the floor. I lay with her as she falls to sleep (she still has milk last thing) and she has been waking later and later in the night unless teething or ill. (Molars have been hell and have resulted in terrible nights). These days I pop in alongside her when she wakes rather than take her into our bed. Things are definitely improving and they're definitely more manageable.

So, my theory is that time and an inordinate amount of patience and you'll see some change.If you're not comfortable doing CC then don't. Do what ever it takes to get you through it. Take the easy option every time and don't worry about creating problems. Remember that it's just as likely that you won't.

Hang in there ChezP. I wanted to pop my head in and say welcome and that you are not alone. Don't beat yourself up over what you have/haven't done. I have had 3 completely different Dcs sleepwise. After DD I thought I had perfected my technique. Then DS2 came along to humble me!!

Keep posting this thread has kept me going through some pretty tough times.

X-posted Ginger . As usual you have written a very thoughtful and intelligent post.

I've been thinking about you, but I haven't had much time to write my thoughts down IYSWIM. How are you and your DH?

Hey CM, thanks for asking. We're OK. DH had his MRI last week and we're awaiting consultation with the neurologist to discuss it. He's still really struggling though and had a bad few days last week. He's normally so strong that his emotional lows make me so I hate to hear him cry.

for you and Dh Ginger. Remember we are all here for you. You are both having such a tough time at the moment. I want to give you a big hug and a large cup of hot chocolate!!