Dummy and four month regression

[Dillybear]

Hello, I’ve posted on here before about my daughter’s sleep and got some useful advice, so I’m back for more!

DD is now 17 weeks old and in the past few days I think we’ve entered the four month sleep regression. She’s started waking more frequently overnight wanting the dummy - I think it was roughly hourly wake ups last night from around midnight onwards.

I’ve worked hard with DD to get her to be able to go to sleep where she’s going to stay asleep. Now, for all sleep I put her down in her crib (a next to me one) and she has her dummy and goes to sleep with me lying next to her holding her hands or stroking her face. This is a huge improvement from being fed/rocked/bounced to sleep before being put down (only for her eyes to ping open again!). Her taking a dummy was a big part of us achieving this.

She is currently having three naps a day: 30-45m, 2.25h, and then 30-45m. I often have to resettle her after 30m of her lunchtime nap by replacing the dummy a couple of times but it’s clear she wants to sleep so it’s not difficult to resettle her. However, sometimes she stirs but doesn’t wake fully so I don’t need to do anything. Even from being two months old she has liked an early bedtime so she goes down somewhere around 7, depending on when her last nap ended/how tired she seems. Her awake time before bed is usually 2-2.5 hours (I aim for 2 to be on the safe side). She goes down to sleep contentedly, just some days she takes longer to actually fall asleep than others. She has a dreamfeed (though is taking half the quantity of what she was taking before) and then wakes once for a feed in the night. Sometimes she wakes around five but will settle back to sleep in my arms. Most days I then wake her up for the day around 7.15.

Although DD taking a dummy has improved her sleep significantly, which is great, my worry with it was always what would happen if she needed it replaced between every sleep cycle come the four month regression. I appreciate that popping the dummy back in her mouth is much less effort than having to get up to feed or rock her to sleep, however, waking up every hour is not ideal whichever way you look at it. I’m not sure if this will just resolve itself in a few weeks or whether the dummy is such a sleep prop that she won’t be able to link sleep cycles without it.

Does anyone know whether the regression can resolve itself? Or do I need to do some more work on sleep with DD - possibly to get rid of the dummy? If so - please tell me how as I genuinely don’t know how she’d sleep without it at this point.

Also, just out of interest, did anyone notice a change in the length of their child’s sleep cycles after or during the regression? Did you see nap lengths change etc? Probably due to the monotony of lockdown, I have been finding baby sleep quite interesting to learn about so I’m curious to know what I might see from DD to indicate that her sleep cycles have matured.

Thanks so much in advance.

@Dillybear@S082018@BabySleepTeacherUK I’ve increased the feed at 1am which settles him for longer than 30 mins seems to settle him for 3 hours at a time now thanks . He’s still kicking his legs up in the air trying to sit up thrashing his arms in the air and swinging his head from side to side though for a good 20 mins when I try to settle him each time. I’m still swaddling at 20 weeks with a. Very thin saddle wrap with Velcro but he’s getting that strong he’s kicking his legs and arms out eventually and getting agitated by it. Also in this heat I don’t know if I should be swaddling I put a fan next our bed last night to keep us cool .

@BabySleepTeacherUK
I didn’t ever swaddle her, and I am annoyed at myself now! Although the past two nights have been a lot better - she has clearly woken between some sleep cycles and just settled back to sleep herself. She cried out twice last night before I went to bed and I was straight to her with the dummy but she didn’t need it and just resettled, which was great. I’m finding leaving her a few moments before intervening is helping. And she has stopped the hourly wake ups - ‘just’ two overnight last night. But I have stopped the dreamfeed as it just doesn’t seem worth it when she’s barely taking 3oz. A bit annoying as she’s waking around 1-2am now as well as the 4-5am wake up, but it means I can get to bed earlier I suppose.

@Complex1950 that’s good news about the three hours! I hope you got some sleep.

@Complex1950 a bedside fan is a good source of white noise, as well as circulating the air - both of which are good for sleep. My own children got used to a fan next to then right from birth, because I sleep with a fan on me and always have, and they were in a cot next to me. So by default, they just got used to it.

My preference would be to keep the swaddle but reduce clothing and other covers and use a fan. SIDS recommendations are that you stop using the swaddle when baby can roll, so as long as yours isnt rolling it's fine to carry on.

Thanks managed to keep the room cooler last night with a fan. I swaddled him with just his vest underneath. He still manages to kick himself out of the swaddle with his feet sticking out he’s so strong. So he’s now going to bed with a bottle 7pm then another bottle at 1am then another bottle at 4am then wake up at 6am for the day with his first feed of the new day. So he takes 7oz each time through the night and has 7oz also at 6am, 9am,12pm,3.30 then 7pm again for bed . He’s a big baby! My concern is he still isn’t falling I to the deep sleep phase as he’s ever so fidgety through the night and as soon as the dummy falls out he’s thrashing his head from side to side and legs kicking so I pop it back . Sometimes this settles him for 3 hours sometimes just 30 minutes. None of its consistent. He takes 3 x 40 min naps a day. He won’t sleep any longer. I don’t know where to improve things to help him sleep longer at night like he did before this 4 month regression kicked in.

@Dillybear @S082018 how are you all doing? I’m still experiencing the same issues as before another week on and all that has changed is he is now feeding more through the night. I’ve ended up getting up now at 3am as I’m sick of falling asleep just to get woken up again half an hour later I figure il just have a few coffees now to see me through the day . He’s been in bed since 7 and had 3 feeds since and hasn’t settled between any feeds just thrashing his arms kicking his legs in the air spitting his dummy out crying and whimpering and only sleeping for 20 mins max each cycle. There is no way he will have even gone into a deep sleep. I spoke to hv again she just said to refer him to the doctors but i don’t really know if this is a medical condition for them? He’s a perfectly happy normal little boy during the day. You’d think being my third child I know what to expect but my other two never experienced anything like this. @BabySleepTeacherUK

@Complex1950 I’m so sorry that sounds awful. Is there anyone who can help you? Getting up at 3am isn’t sustainable! You have all my sympathy.

Last night was a shitshow, frankly (maybe I deserve it for asking for some help from ‘D’H?). However, she’s sleeping better generally than she was, but waking around 2-3 times after midnight, and it’s really variable how long she’s up for at each wake up. On good nights she goes straight back down after a feed but last night she was up twice and awake for 2 hours each time. Bedtime and naps are still really good though and she’s linking her sleep cycles when she naps quite frequently now. I would just like to sleep a little bit myself!

My DH won’t do any night feeds only did them whilst off on paternity now he’s back at work he likes to have a good nights sleep! Lol it wouldn’t be so bad I’d I just had the baby as I could sleep during the day but I have a 6 & and 8 year old during the day to home school! When your LO is awake for 2 hours at night how are they? Are they crying unsettled or just wanting to play?

Wow I can’t believe you’re managing that - even with a baby that sleeps well that would be really tough! Can’t believe your DH isn’t helping at all, that’s really appalling.

When DD is up for long periods in the night it depends what time it is - she was awake 11-1am last night, really fussy, unsettled, thrashing around, then crying, desperately trying to sleep. Then woke again at 5 and was trying to sleep (more thrashing) but then wide awake, followed by trying to sleep again. She managed to get back to sleep at 6.30 for about 40 minutes, poor thing. I get up with her earlier if she doesn’t seem like she’s still trying to sleep when she wakes early, but more often than not she clearly wants to go back to sleep. Either way I don’t let her sleep past 7.30.

I read that kicking their legs up and turning their heads from side to side is baby’s way of trying to self settle, which does seem to be what she’s trying to do.

Yes that’s what my LO one does exactly raises his legs right up in the air and thrashes his head from side to side! But then as you say they won’t do that when they first go to bed or during day time naps ! I just don’t understand lol you see my elder two never went through this so it’s new to me.

Ah my DD does do that (kicking legs and turning her head) at the beginning of naps and bedtime, as well as between sleep cycles during naps. That’s what makes me think that she’s trying so hard to sleep when she’s doing it during the middle of the night. So does your baby just go to sleep without thrashing about at all? To be fair (before I had a baby I could wake up!) I would toss and turn quite a lot before going to sleep so maybe she’s just like me in that sense.

Hey yeah this is the thing I always put him down during the day for his naps in his pram in the hall and he just nods straight off no drama no fussing and then on a night when I put him in his crib next to my bed I feed him and then lay him now and I leave the room and he’s asleep within minutes no thrashing. It’s when he’s slept for a couple of hours after that it starts and just doesn’t stop until we kept up in the morning. I just don’t know what to do I even thought of trying to find a sleep coach to pay for their services! I’m at my wits end lol

Hi Ladies. I'm so glad I stumbled across this post. My baby is 18 weeks today and he is just like your babies. Hes always been a bad sleeper but the last week or two hes up every hour and then waking fully about 5am. I'm literally in tears every night and struggling on little sleep. My husband returned to work last week for the first time since baby born so I'm at it alone.

I cant rest in the day because he wont sleep more than 30 mins at a time unless I hold him. If he wakes after 30 mins hes a blubbering mess for the rest of the day. If I hold him I can get longer out of him but he still dosent seem well rested

He goes to sleep at 7pm and will wake up every 30-45 mins until around dream feed at 10. He will then go back down about 11ish then start around 1am every hour thrashing about, never crying though. Around 4am I will feed him and then hes having like 20 mins naps or shouting until 7ish when I get up.

Its exhausting and I've had a 3 day headache so far. X

Hi there welcome your not alone as you can see. I have spent many a night in tears through exhaustion And you just don’t know what to do. You LO sounds very similar to mine I think last week he managed a 3 hour stretch a couple of times during the night on a couple of the nights and that was the most he’s slept through for the past month now x

It's so frustrating isnt it. I've really been very strict today with his naps so I'm hoping he will sleep better tonight. Hoping it ends for us all soon. Two of my friends have babies that have slept through from weeks old. I'm so jealous x

Ahh it's so hard isn't it 🥺

My little one is still waking up frequently in the night but we have taken to co-sleeping so we are both getting a little more sleep than we were. Sometimes all it takes is a hand on his chest or a light tapping on his bum and he's back to sleep for a couple of hours. He's finally mastered how to roll and has now taken to sleeping on his tummy which creates a whole new level of fear as I'm now constantly checking on him!! But since he has learnt how to do it, he seems much more comfy figuring out his own sleep position.
It's still not great, and I still wish I could put him in his next to me crib and hubby could move back in our room and not sleep in the spare room but it is what it is for now.

Naps in the daytime are horrendous at the moment. 30 minutes at a time and only having 3-4 naps in a day so not nearly

Oops posted too soon! Meant to say not nearly enough sleep in the day as I'd want him to have.

My eldest two were bad sleepers in the first 6 weeks but by like 4/5 months were settled and good sleepers just waking once or twice for a feed. So this time round it’s a shock to me lol I’m like you my friend had a baby 3 days after me and she’s been sleeping through too since a few weeks old x

he is now feeding more through the night @Complex1950

Assuming he is feeding because he's hungry (?), he is clearly needing a lot more calories than he was. Not unusual around the 4 month regression - they do suddenly need a lot more milk.

Are you tackling this during the daytime? If he's wanting the calories of 3 bottles during the night, try to get three extra bottles in during the day. Due To the limiting factor of stomach volume, the way to get more milk into baby is often by making feeds more frequent, less time between feeds, so that there are more bottles per day. Feeding every 2h would give you 7 bottles between 7am-7pm, 8 bottles with a dreamfeed.

thrashes his head from side to side

This is a classic self-soothing mechanism.

It's basically baby saying "get me the fuck to sleep, I'M KNACKERED!" (caps deliberate), it's a show of frustration. Some babies respond best to minimal "fuss" when this is happening - as in they don't want lots of shushing or patting because that increases the stress of the situation. Just silence, dark, stillness and patience in the reassurance you give.

Have I talked about a sidecar cot? (see image). When baby doesn't need lots of fuss, just dummy sucking and knowing you're there, a sidecar cot allows you to do all of that without moving from under your duvet. Indeed, without even opening your eyes. Can be psychologically beneficial for your own sleep if you don't open your eyes if at all possible.

@Jellyonaplate20 I'd suggest trying daytime naps in a bouncy chair, just a simple Z-frame one like the image.

The benefit is that you can sit yourself on the sofa and bounce baby in it to get to sleep. Also means that you can bounce baby back into a deep sleep to extend naps past one sleep cycle. But the habit is easier to ease out of in the longer term than holding baby for naps is.

Also, reduce down your awake time between naps. A good estimate for awake time is about double nap length. I'd suggest about an hour awake, as a ball-park figure at this age, but depends individuals will differ.

Thank you yes I have a next to me crib that he sleeps on a night so he knows I’m there and I try not to pick him Up just rest my hand on him when he starts fussing. I will try and increase his feeds during day I’m just conscious of him then increasing his feeds during day and night and home ending up on 10 bottles in an24 hour period lol as he is a big boy I’m sure he would just keep eating. Does this eventually stop and will he go back to sleeping through with just one or two night feeds a night or could this be it for months now these wakenings? I read 4 month regression lasts 2-6 weeks but I’m over the 6 week threshold now 😕

You cannot overfeed a baby milk at this age, dont let that even enter your head. If baby takes 10 bottles a day, that's what baby needs.

My youngest was a 91st centile chunk from birth until she started walking. She was on a 2h EASY cycle at this age (eat, awake time, sleep, you-time) - so having one full feed and one daytime nap every 2h, in a cycle through the daytime. I used to make up 8 bottles a day - 7 given during the day and one saved in case of a night feed.

Does this eventually stop and will he go back to sleeping through

He will not go back to newborn sleep - that passive type of sleep is a thing only of the Forth Trimester and whilst in the womb only. He needs to learn - actively learn - how to sleep like an adult does, in cycles. He will learn, so this wont be forever. But it's not instinctive, like all skills he has to practice and learn. It'll last as long as it takes him to learn.

If you have a bedside cot already, some other things to do that you may not have thought of:

• Remove or turn your clock around. Do not look at the clock in the night, it is better for your own perception of how tired you are.
• Try to move as little as possible when settling baby. Stay under the duvet in bed, don't sit up.
• Try to keep your eyes closed. Do you have a way you can easily find the dummy at night? I used to sew a ribbon onto the sleeping bag with a press-stud at the end for the dummy. This meant I could locate and reinsert dummy without needing to search around, so could do it with my eyes closed (literally)
• Consider ear plug to dull out background noise and improve the quality of your sleep. With baby still close, you will still hear baby wake, but the reduction in background stimulation helps your own sleep.
• Ensure your room is completely pitch back and cool.

These things are just basic ways to absolutely maximise your own sleep quality. It makes you cope better with baby's sleep if you don't feel so wretched yourself.

Hiya @Jellyonaplate20 welcome to the club! It’s so hard isn’t it. Seems like we’re all doing it without much help from partners as well. Last night my DH slept in with me and DD but it seemed to just make things worse as I think we woke her up going to bed and then it took two hours to settle her. Sometimes I feel so angry and resentful that he just gets to opt out while I am on my knees with exhaustion, but then she seems to be soothed much more by me so it’s hard for him to do much except get in the way.

After last night she’s been so tired today. She went to bed earlier than usual but screamed and screamed as she was going down. It was horrible. I will try for more naps tomorrow if tonight is as bad as I don’t want her getting increasingly overtired.

I tried to go to bed really early this evening in another room to get some sleep before it all kicks off later, and for the first time in a good few days she cried in the evening, just as I was dropping off, about 20 minutes after I lay down. So now I’m just sat in the dark next to her hoping she settles, feeling sorry for myself and for her. What has happened to my life?!

@BabySleepTeacherUK interesting to read that babies are frustrated when they turn their heads from side to side. My DD has done this every time she goes to sleep and whilst resettling between sleep cycles whilst she’s in the crib - as in, she didn’t do it when I used to hold/feed her to sleep but ever since she’s learnt to go to sleep where she stays asleep she has done this. She doesn’t seem unhappy when she does it unless she can’t get to sleep - then she’ll cry, but that’s usually overnight rather than at the start of sleep. Is that something I should be worried about?

Nothing to worry about, it's a self-soothing technique.

It's not a terribly helpful soothing method because the movement itself can make it hard for the body to relax. It's an in the absence of anything else... type thing. So if baby has other ways to be soothed to sleep, then the head side-to-side thing isn't necessary. But when baby is instinctively feeling like they need more help to get to sleep than they have, you tend to get this kind of head thrashing in some babies.