Dummy and four month regression

[Dillybear]

Hello, I’ve posted on here before about my daughter’s sleep and got some useful advice, so I’m back for more!

DD is now 17 weeks old and in the past few days I think we’ve entered the four month sleep regression. She’s started waking more frequently overnight wanting the dummy - I think it was roughly hourly wake ups last night from around midnight onwards.

I’ve worked hard with DD to get her to be able to go to sleep where she’s going to stay asleep. Now, for all sleep I put her down in her crib (a next to me one) and she has her dummy and goes to sleep with me lying next to her holding her hands or stroking her face. This is a huge improvement from being fed/rocked/bounced to sleep before being put down (only for her eyes to ping open again!). Her taking a dummy was a big part of us achieving this.

She is currently having three naps a day: 30-45m, 2.25h, and then 30-45m. I often have to resettle her after 30m of her lunchtime nap by replacing the dummy a couple of times but it’s clear she wants to sleep so it’s not difficult to resettle her. However, sometimes she stirs but doesn’t wake fully so I don’t need to do anything. Even from being two months old she has liked an early bedtime so she goes down somewhere around 7, depending on when her last nap ended/how tired she seems. Her awake time before bed is usually 2-2.5 hours (I aim for 2 to be on the safe side). She goes down to sleep contentedly, just some days she takes longer to actually fall asleep than others. She has a dreamfeed (though is taking half the quantity of what she was taking before) and then wakes once for a feed in the night. Sometimes she wakes around five but will settle back to sleep in my arms. Most days I then wake her up for the day around 7.15.

Although DD taking a dummy has improved her sleep significantly, which is great, my worry with it was always what would happen if she needed it replaced between every sleep cycle come the four month regression. I appreciate that popping the dummy back in her mouth is much less effort than having to get up to feed or rock her to sleep, however, waking up every hour is not ideal whichever way you look at it. I’m not sure if this will just resolve itself in a few weeks or whether the dummy is such a sleep prop that she won’t be able to link sleep cycles without it.

Does anyone know whether the regression can resolve itself? Or do I need to do some more work on sleep with DD - possibly to get rid of the dummy? If so - please tell me how as I genuinely don’t know how she’d sleep without it at this point.

Also, just out of interest, did anyone notice a change in the length of their child’s sleep cycles after or during the regression? Did you see nap lengths change etc? Probably due to the monotony of lockdown, I have been finding baby sleep quite interesting to learn about so I’m curious to know what I might see from DD to indicate that her sleep cycles have matured.

Thanks so much in advance.

Hi I have come on here today searching for an answer for my son who’s also going through similar. He is 19 weeks now and for the last 3 weeks has gone from sleeping for 8 hours straight to waking every 45 mins ish thrashing around flailing his arms and legs crying and the only thing to sooth him and settle him is to pop his dummy back in and put my hand on him to settle him down back to sleep. Then I get 45 mins sleep and it happens again this pattern has gone on now for 3 weeks and I’m more exhausted now than I was when he was a new born So your not alone but I don’t know what to do x

Yes the thrashing and flailing means you can’t just ignore them and hope they resettle - there’s no sleeping through it is there! Hopefully someone will offer some advice soon.

DD’s first nap today lasted an hour, with no resettling from me, which is unusual. I wondered if her sleep cycles are lengthening - but I don’t know if this is gradual or a sudden change. I find it really interesting! Clearly lockdown isn’t doing me any good!

Yes this is the strange thing my son takes his usual naps throughout the day with no kicking off or intervention by me so why are the day naps so different from the night?

Hi both
My little boy is 5 months now and has always been a poor sleeper at night. The most he’s done since birth is hours straight but that’s very rare. However before the regression he was usually doing around two 3 hour shifts in a row before waking hourly later in the night. When the regression hit us - a few weeks before 4 months - it went to waking every 45 mins to 2 hours throughout the night. We’ve also been working a lot on sleep due to lockdown (and sleep deprivation!) and I can’t advise you on the dummy but I will say that he does seem to be starting to change some of his patterns on his own - for example the last two days he’s taken a 2 hour nap when previously most naps were 45 minutes to an hour. We have done a lot of work on self settling and settling with minimal help but hadn’t seen any changes in naps until now so I do think a lot of it is just developmental.

That should say that the most he has done is 4 hours straight.

@coconutlatte44 Glad to hear your DS is starting to sleep a little better - the nights you’ve been dealing with sound awful! It’s helpful to know that he’s starting to make progress on his own as well.

Thanks!
Yes it’s been pretty awful. Thankfully my husband is super helpful and we basically split the night in half even though he’s working. However his part of the night usually only has one or two wakes so it’s a bit better than mine but he isn’t allowed to nap during the day!

I’ve been wondering whether we need to be looking at the dummy use - he can now pull it out of his own mouth and sometimes does so when he’s sleeping! But not sure if it falling out is behind some wakes. Anyway I’ll let you know if I try anything re the dummy, hope you find some answers!

So I put my DS to bed at 7pm tonight as normal he goes straight to sleep and he’s just woken at 9pm thrashing arms and legs and I’ve ran up popped his dummy in and he’s nodded straight back off - I’m gonna make a note of each time he wakes tonight on my phone. This time last month he was going to bed at 7pm with a bottle and sleeping straight until 4-4.30 then sleeping again until about 7am which was great really when I think back for a 14 week old should have known good things don’t last !!!

Only my deepest sympathies.
My DD went through the sleep regression early (mid 3 months) and bad (6 weeks). I was a wreck and feeling very down. I was convinced the dummy was the root of her problems with sleep so tried to wean her off it. It was just horrible and such extra stress on me. I went with the No Cry Sleep solution and found the book very helpful.
I am convinced 2 happened that helped her escape this bad sleeping times.

1. She just go over it developmentally. You can take the horse to water but you can't make it drink. I was trying every advice I could to encourage her to sleep better or fall asleep on her own, but in the end I think it came from her. I was wanting her to self settle when she wasn't there developmentally.
2. We moved from a chico next to me magic to a big cot bed with a proper mattress. It gave her a lot more room to trash about while falling asleep and she stopped getting stuck in the edges. She only woke twice 7pm-7am the first night we put her in the big cot bed so I assume she must have found it very comfy.

There was further improvement when she learned to roll to her tummy and she now sleeps that way. Don't get me wrong, she is not a tremendous sleeper (almost 6 months now), but we went 6 weeks with 1.5-1h wake ups every night to doing stretches of 2.5-3.5h. She now wakes some days only twice, some days 3-4 times (teething badly just now). But compared to the regression it is bliss!

I know it sounds horrible but try to stick it out and trust your baby will get to a stage where they can do it. I can only wish you it comes soon!

Ps. A book that helped me more than anything to get through that period being stronger, bigger, kinder and wiser and feeling good about my parenting was 'Raising a secure child'. I felt like it helped me try to meet all my child's needs and not constantly give myself a hard time for each time I put her to sleep in not a perfect way or following the right formula or something.

I did wonder if moving him out of his next to me crib I to his own big cot in his own room may help incase it was me disturbing him but he still seems to young. Anyway last night was typical I made notes below each time he woke
Bed 7pm
Wakes 9pm
23.13
12,40
1.20
2.20
3.36
4.05 feed
8am

By the 4am wake and feed I was exhausted so I swaddled him and he slept straight until 8am. I know we aren’t supposed to swaddle , he was swaddled as a newborn but I mived him Into a sleeping bag at 3 months. Co Incidently around the same time he started this sleep regression but I just thought it was co incidence. He can’t be swaddled forever though esp as he will start rolling in the next couple of months. But then again I can’t keep having interrupted nights like above each night esp when I have 2 other children I’m homeschooling x

I have a pal that swaddled untill 5 months or so anyway. Up to you.
We didn't move DD into her room, we put the cot bed next to our bed and took 1 side off so its like a sidecar. Had to put the rail back up a few weeks after as she is too mobile in there.

@Complex1950 oh my goodness poor you, what a nightmare! Last night was actually fairly normal - just one wake at 3ish and then up as normal. So maybe she’s not going through the regression? Or maybe it sort of starts bit by bit? Took a while to settle her after the feed again though, which is quite common at the moment. I used to be able to just put her down after her feed and pop the dummy in and she’d stay asleep, but that doesn’t really work anymore, so the night waking themselves are taking ages again.

@Complex1950 I’ve never swaddled DD but when I’m resettling her in the night I just want to hold her arms and legs down - she wakes herself up thrashing around! I don’t know whether it’s safe to still swaddle, but I can definitely see why you’d want to!!

I’ve spoken to the hv this morning she said it’s completely normal at this age and just to keep persevering ☹️ Its horrendous! Glad you got a better night maybe your daughter is going through it just not as extreme lol

I feel your pain everyone!! I have an 18 week old who gradually slept better and better until doing 9 hour stretches.

Then at 15 weeks he went to bed and got up 2 hours later and all through the night and this has been life since!! Especially recognise the flailing arms and legs!

I think I’m doing something really wrong though because he has a bottle two or three times a night. I accidentally got into the habit because he only used to have one a night and never woke for anything else so I’ve never just soothed him back to sleep. The first few nights he did this I just assumed he was hungry. Now I have no idea how to wean him off all these feeds

Any advice would be amazing xx

Hi OP! I have a 19 week old. We have been going through the regression for coming on 7 weeks now. My little one is up every 1.5-2 hours in the night. I'm really trying to get him into a habit of falling asleep where he stays asleep (I.e in his crib) and not being rocked/held to sleep.

He was using a dummy to fall asleep...but I noticed that it was causing more hassle. Although it helped to soothe him and drift off, I was putting the dummy back in his mouth 20+ times a night!

Yes his sleep still isn't brilliant, but he can now fall asleep without it and I don't really think he misses it if I'm honest.

My little one also has a terrible habit of thrashing his arms and legs around. I have to hold his arms down and place my hand on his chest to stop him from waving them about.

I read somewhere that the regression can last up to 6 weeks but we are beyond that now and I'm really hoping things get better soon. If anything, they have been worse this week as he had his third set of jabs on Monday and he's been ever so unsettled ever since! 😫

Seems there’s quite a few of us in the same boat all dreading bedtimes 😝

@Complex1950 oh definitely! My little one fell asleep at 6.45pm today and just woke up screaming at the top of his lungs! I had to pick him up to settle him down and he stopped instantly... he's back down now but probably not for long 😫

[quote S082018]@Complex1950 oh definitely! My little one fell asleep at 6.45pm today and just woke up screaming at the top of his lungs! I had to pick him up to settle him down and he stopped instantly... he's back down now but probably not for long 😫 [/quote]
Haha I know how you feel I’m sat watching tv with on the baby monitor waiting for the first waking of the night

@S082018 from everything I’ve read (a lot, at this point!!) it sounds like you’re setting him up with really good sleep habits if he can go to sleep in his crib, without a dummy or anything you have to control. How did you wean him off it? It was so helpful in getting us to the point where she goes to sleep in the crib, losing the need for all that movement, and without crying - amazing! But I just don’t know how I get rid of it now - I’m sure she’d just cry and I don’t want that. I’m half thinking maybe I just wait it out until she’s old enough to replace it herself and work really hard with her on that instead! Got some good tips on here about how to do that starting at 7 months.

So far so good this evening. Down just before seven and so far. I’m going to try and skip the dreamfeed tonight - it’s just waking her up and she’s taking so little it seems pointless. Bracing myself to try and creep into bed without disturbing her in a bit!

That should say - so far, not a peep.

@Complex1950 we are on our second wake up of the night! No tears though thankfully... more smiles than anything else 😂 makes it hard not to interact with him when he's smiling so much!

@Dillybear up until Monday, I was putting him down wide awake and settling him in his next to me cot by using the shh pat technique (more patting, not so much the shh-ing). It was working brilliantly but I do wonder now if I've gotten him used to being patted to sleep now as he seemed to need that every time he woke up! It's like I created a whole new association 🤦🏽‍♀️ since Monday it's all gone downhill though as he had his 3rd lot of jabs and he's just been a bit unsettled since. I'm giving it a week then I'll get back to trying again.
With the dummy, he just suddenly wasn't taking it one night and kept pushing it out with his tongue which was really frustrating me so I just took it off of him and have never looked back! I guess I've just been lucky in that sense!

That is lucky, maybe she’ll just get sick of it too. But then like you say you don’t want to replace it with another sleep association! Though patting will hopefully be easier to phase out.

I clearly jinxed it earlier - I’ve had to go in to give her the dummy at 9.30 and then again at 10 already.... she has always slept so well in the evenings!! It doesn’t look set to be a good night!

@Dillybear I'm prepared to have a bad night tonight too... I've taken the plunge and removed my little ones sleepyhead from his next to me crib. I know people have their opinions on whether or not they are safe, but for a period of time it was a lifesaver for the both of us in that we were getting great restful nights.
But I'm finding the bigger he's getting, the more he wants to move around and find a comfortable position and the sleepyhead doesn't necessarily allow that as it's so snug. I'm wondering sometimes if this is why he's so restless? God knows if that's the case but I'm just trying everything possible at the moment 😂

In Support of The Dummy

I absolutely would not give up the dummy at this point. As well as it not being (NHS and Lullaby Trust) recommended to give up a dummy before 6 months, or use it inconsistently - it will also create much more crying in the process of getting to sleep.

Stopping dummy use will not stop frequent wake ups

Frequent wake ups are to do with (a) baby being overtired (b) baby not going to sleep where they stay asleep, for example falling asleep in your arms (c) developmental and will be grown out of in time

The dummy is for going to sleep, not staying asleep

The purpose of the dummy ends once baby is asleep. It is there to help baby to relax their body and independently sooth to sleep. Once asleep then all muscles will slacken, including jaw muscles and dummy drops.

Good use of dummy means it's in the mouth for about 10 mins, from baby being awake until fully asleep.

Linking sleep cycles

Assuming you have in place that baby goes to sleep from fully awake in the cot, linking sleep cycles is developmental but is made infinitely more difficult for baby to do if overtired.

If baby is not getting enough sleep over a 24/48 hour period, then all sleep is likely to be lighter and more fretful. This means that instead of being able to go from deep sleep to a brief period of light sleep and back to deep sleep without waking up, baby is more likely to spend substantial periods of time in light sleep and so between cycles there are awake times, rather than light sleep.

This is not dummy related.

Assuming baby is not over tired, is having ample sleep over a 24/48 hour period and also has good sleep hygiene, then it's just a matter of baby making the developmental leap to link cycles. Like all development stages, it varies between individuals.

Reinserting own dummy

In time, baby can learn to find and replace their own dummy. This happens generally around 7-9 months old (ish). There are things you can do during the daytime to improve fine motor skills and pincer grip to help this.

But in fact, as mentioned above, is baby isn't over tired and has good sleep hygiene then the mid-cycle wakes reduce anyway, so dummy re-inserts become less necessary anyway.

Without a dummy, you're likely to have far more sleep issues by 9 months old and you'll be wishing use kept going with the dummy because sleep would have been resolved.

In summary

Dummies are ACE

They are so simple and effective. There is no easier and quicker way to get baby to sleep without crying. Any other sleep training method will involve a lot of crying. I always favour the gentle, no crying and no distress methods and the dummy is THE BEST way to achieve this. I wouldn't want a sub-12 month old screaming to sleep, certainly not a sub-6 month old.

The dummy is there to make going to sleep easier.

Without it, if you don't like listening to your baby cry, you're likely to end up either cosleeping or rocking to sleep. Nothing wrong with co-sleeping or rocking to sleep, but these are not independent sleep. Dummy helps achieve independent sleep, without any crying.

If you can tolerate some crying then you can achieve getting baby to sleep independently, in the cot from fully awake to fully asleep. But it will take a lot longer than a dummy resettle, and with a lot more crying.

Whichever alternate settling method you choose, if you don't solve the original overtired or developmental issues then it won't solve the frequent waking issue. Just makes life harder.

As you may be able to tell, I am a HUGE fan of the dummy.