When cc doesnt work

[Sleeplessmamma]

Feel a bit at my wits ends. Baby has managed to learn to self settle (due to controlled crying) but still 2 weeks later we are crying at the start of naps and bedtime from 10-25 mins. Even though she is now sleeping through from 7pm till just before 7am, initially putting her down feels so stressful. She is nearly 10 months.

What other alternative do I have that isnt letting her cry but also not creating a new sleep association that we then end up back to square one (she used to be rocked to sleep).

Feeling very stressed and it's so upsetting to hear. Any advice or exoeriences would be greatly greatly appreciated right now.

Thanks in advance!

Does this mean controlled crying has worked (because she now sleeps through the night) or hasn't worked (because 2 weeks later she still screaming at naps and bedtime)

If you've done controlled crying which is never easy you don't want to have to do if again. Is she a happier baby whhen awake because she is getting this good stretch of sleep? If so I would say it has worked. When my babies woke all night we were all miserable and overtired.

Are you in the room as she self settles? Or is she left alone?

If she's in the room on her own, it might help if you are there comforting?

I wouldn't suggest much "fussing" over her - that's likely to cause extra distractions (making going to sleep take longer) and also could create extra sleep associations.

But at 10 months she could be aware of your empathy - that you care and want her to feel comforted and settled.

In your situation is just sit, quietly, in the dark room with her on a chair next to the cot. I'd look at her with quality eye contact and the most I'd do in terms of physical touch would be some patting on her chest/shoulder to help her calm, may be some occasional shhhhh sounds too. But then (importantly) stop the patting and shushing as soon as she's quiet and calm, but keep your eye contact and presence.

So it would be:

• put in cot as normal at bedtime, dark quiet room, you sit/stand next to cot
• eye contact.
• if crying, pat her while in cot, shush occasionally. But keep movements gentle and infrequent, no big movements.
• as calming, stop patting but keep hand on her shoulder/chest for reassurance. Keep eye contact.
• once calm, remove your hand and sit quietly and still, with eye contact, until asleep.
• leave once asleep

Over time, you'll need to pay less and can just sit there as she settles.

Over further time, stand further from the cot until you are just hovering at doorway as he settles, then hovering upstairs but not within sight. Then just leave her to go to sleep alone.

Even before the cc she was a happy happy baby. And shes still the same now. Except she sounds so distressed on going into cot. We've even got to the point where she starts to cry when I close the curtains.

I've been told this could be a developmental phase of the separation anxiety but obviously cant know for sure when babba cant talk.....just screams!

This morning after a couple of checking her at intervals my husband held her, calmed her, laid her down awake, stroked her head and walked out. She literally turned her head and went so sleep. Maybe we need to start like that?

Just selfishly dont want to undo all the hard work for night sleeps!

@FATEdestiny

Would we have to do that for every nap and bedtime as her bedtime seems slightly calmer crying?

We do feel actually her demeanor is slightly not as cheery as her usual self since we started this new routine and would hate to think we have somehow created a sad anxious baby 😒

Yes, I would do it for all sleeps - naps and bedtime. Any sleeps she's calmer for should mean less / no patting is needed, just your reassuring presence might be enough.

Well we've tried it for the last few days and staying in just doesnt work for her. Stimulates her far too much and doesnt fall asleep.

At my wits end with the daytime naps. I have a long term health condition (m.e.) so extra exhaustion and fatigue and so taking her for a walk in the pram isnt always an option. Was loving when for a few a couple of weeks she was sleeping in her cot as it gave me downtime to rest before she was up.

I'm starting to cave on giving the dummy back to her for daytime naps(we managed to get rid and managed what I thought was fine). My Dh doesnt want too as he thinks it's a step backwards and will confuse her.

Help! Does this phase go away or will she always scream at nap times?xx

They didn't "learn" to self soothe. They learnt that crying doesn't get your attention.

You took the dummy away?!

Oh my god, madness. Give it back! You didn't mention that in the OP.

The dummy is The single biggest and best tool to aid independent sleeping without any distress.

Without the dummy, independent sleep either:
(a) will not happen, she'll be dependant on you instead. Or
(b) will involve crying.
Full stop.

We actually had help from a sleep specialist recommended by a friend. And she said to get rid. And doing so eliminated the 5am wake ups. But also I think conincided with daytime naps going bad. Her logic was that having the dummy was causing her to wake in the night searching for it.

She doesnt cry as much at night time and basically sleeps from about 7.15ish to between 6am-7am.

Could we give dummy for naps and not bedtime?or would that confuse her?x

At 10 months she still needs a lot of comfort to go to sleep. She will still have a need for sucking too so making her fall asleep and alone is not going to happen and I imagine is making her anxious around bedtime could you not give her the dummy to fall asleep? At nighttime you could take it away after she’s fallen asleep maybe.

Not all sleep consultants are any good. And a philosophy that works for your friend won't work for you - two different individual babies and families.

Her logic was that having the dummy was causing her to wake in the night searching for it.

What she could have suggested is ways to teach baby to find and replace own dummy. At 10 months baby can do this. The motor skills needed to replace dummy develop around 7-8 months or so.

(Having said that, a 5am wake up us unlikely to be dummy related. It will be to do with low sleep pressure, same reason you struggle with daytime naps.)

It's not advised (Or a good idea) to inconsistently use a dummy. If baby has a dummy it wants to be used for all sleeps - day and night. But good idea to not use (at all) when awake.

My concern is shes doing so well at bedtime (not as long crying and not as distressed) and then basically sleeps till morning. That if we give dummy back for naps, that she will need it for bedtime and then during the night she will be looking for it (often threw it out of the cot) and will need it for going back to sleep during the night. Currently has a muslin comforter that she holds or plays with if waking during the night and rarely cries out and just goes back to sleep.

Children are only little for a short time, enjoy the cuddles rather than stressing about crying it out. You will miss the closeness when they are older, trust me. They learn in their own time, no need to force it.

@FATEdestiny why is it not recommended to use for some naps? Is there a reason its either all or nothing?

Teaching Baby To Replace Own Dummy

Two factors to consider.
(1) The ability to locate a lost dummy.
(2) The ability to put dummy in own mouth.

Practice these during awake playtime:

• Give dummy to baby (in hands) for her to put in mouth herself.
• put the dummy teat in baby's hand, so that baby needs to use fine motor skills to recognise it's the wrong way round, turn it over herself and then insert in own mouth.
• put dummy on floor out of babys reach (during floor time) so she has to reach for it before putting in. Speak to her So she learns the work dummy. "Where's dummy?". Make it a game to get it.
• put dummy out of eyeline but visible, off to her side for example. Play the "Where's dummy?" game. Get her uses to searching

At bedtime and naptime:

• No longer put dummy in her mouth for her, she does that herself using her hands.
• use a dummy saver clip - One of those clips on a short cord that you clip to baby's chest.
• I used sleeping bags and used to sew a ribbon permanently onto chest of sleeping bags, with a press stud at hand to attach dummy to. This meant no bulky clip to lie on.
• Ensure ribbon/cord reacted only from chest to ear and no longer. It's then long enough when dummy is in mouth but not long enough to go around neck.
• the idea is baby learns to swipe hands under chin to find ribbon, which then locate a dummy at end of ribbon, and can then put own dummy in.
• initially, attach dummy to clip/ribbon and hand to baby (in hands) for baby to put in themself.
• in time, just attach dummy to clip/ribbon and ask "Where's dummy?" (Echoing daytime play) so she knows how to find and replace own dummy.

HTH

She was actually very good at putting her dummy in her mouth,knew the name of it. She also could find it in the cot (assuming she hadn't chucked it out on the floor). We were told that by her going to search for it during the night that was waking her up a bit and also that if she had thrown it out it would mean we would have to go in and put it in for her and therefore making it harder for her to self settle on her own.

Is it not advisable at all to just give at daytime?

why is it not recommended to use for some naps? Is there a reason its either all or nothing?

All or nothing. It is in the Lullaby Trust safe sleeping advice to either use a dummy consistantly for all sleeps, or not at all.

Aside from that, inconsistency in any means will always hinder good sleep hygiene. Always better to always be consistent.

What's your daytime nap routine like? It could be that if baby has a nice long soothing bedtime routine (bath, book, bottle etc) the transition from daytime to sleepy time is really easy and predictable, which makes being put down in the cot much less stressful for her.

Maybe try to get more a routine going for naps. A particular story, some quiet play in her room, a little ritual or similar, so she knows its coming and its not just being sprung on her out of the blue.

Is it not advisable at all to just give at daytime?

A more pertinent question is why not give dummy at bedtime?

If you have already lived through sleep problems, you'll now be learning that good sleep habits come from almost anal-standard consistency. Proper, dogged level "same thing happens every damn time" type responded.

In fact, while I think about it, this kind of consistency works best for almost all aspects of a baby/toddlers life, not just sleep.

@SomeoneElseEntirelyNow her naps I do the same routine including a story. Vry relaxed. I've tried the same time every morning and I've also tried looking for sleep cues and doesnt make a difference.

@FATEdestiny it's not so much that I dont want to give her it, shes just done so well at bedtime and after 14 weeks of colic (4 hours screaming every single night for the first 14 weeks of her life) and after that never going longer than 3 hours till a wake, the factsheet suddenly is now sleeping through after taking dummy away is a miracle. I have a long term health condition where fatigue and exhaustion is a major factor so the fact I'm feeling a bit more human has been amazing. I may sound a bit selfish there. But on the flip side hearing her cry is getting to me note than I thought it would 🤦🏻‍♀️

Can't you just put multiple dummies in the cot so she can easily locate one? 10 months is very young I don't think it's harmful to continue with a dummy at that age. Does she maybe need to revise her nap schedule? Maybe the timings just aren't right?

@doadeer there is that option. I think the sleep consultant has got it in my head that by even doing that she would be searching for it and therefore waking her up(bit like if we were to searching for something in the middle of the night it would wake us up).... I think cos we had such sleepless nights and finally were feeling a bit more human, I worry that bu giving the dummy back I'm going to go back to night wakings.

I've tried so many different nap schedules and times and nothing seems to suit her as shes so random at sleeping and always been since birth (takes after her mammy). I was that desperate for her to sleep I nearly went back to rocking her to sleep, but she wouldn't let me haha

I had a sleep Consultant too and that was her advice. Your little one is going to wake up frequently in the night, we all do, that's natural. If this helps her drift back off then that's good.