When cc doesnt work

[Sleeplessmamma]

Feel a bit at my wits ends. Baby has managed to learn to self settle (due to controlled crying) but still 2 weeks later we are crying at the start of naps and bedtime from 10-25 mins. Even though she is now sleeping through from 7pm till just before 7am, initially putting her down feels so stressful. She is nearly 10 months.

What other alternative do I have that isnt letting her cry but also not creating a new sleep association that we then end up back to square one (she used to be rocked to sleep).

Feeling very stressed and it's so upsetting to hear. Any advice or exoeriences would be greatly greatly appreciated right now.

Thanks in advance!

@sleeplessmamma you're getting no judgement from me, i know how much it sucks! And i don't think there's anything wrong with what you've done so far - you're a good mum.

ItsSpittingEverybodyIn needs a nice quiet sit down, i think!

@SomeoneElseEntirelyNow thanks! They dont tell you in the baby books how you'll second guess yourself in everything haha xx

This makes for such a sad reading.
Why are parents obsessed with putting their want for an uninterrupted sleep before their baby's need for comfort

Self soothe through controlled crying = Exhaustion, she's got nothing left in her to cry.

She doesn't want to get into the cot because she knows she's going to be either left or not comforted while you're there. You shouldn't have had a kid if you couldn't handle them crying. And let's also take away her dummy 🤨 poor baby honestly. What a nightmare for her.

@Sleeplessmamma

Well we've tried it for the last few days and staying in just doesnt work for her. Stimulates her far too much and doesnt fall asleep.

At my wits end with the daytime naps. I have a long term health condition (m.e.) so extra exhaustion and fatigue and so taking her for a walk in the pram isnt always an option. Was loving when for a few a couple of weeks she was sleeping in her cot as it gave me downtime to rest before she was up.

I'm starting to cave on giving the dummy back to her for daytime naps(we managed to get rid and managed what I thought was fine). My Dh doesnt want too as he thinks it's a step backwards and will confuse her.

Help! Does this phase go away or will she always scream at nap times?xx

Give her the dummy back. You took away a source of comfort for her, it isn't "going back" to give it back when she needs it.

@Sleeplessmamma

To be fair, she didnt recommend cc as such. She suggested waiting minimum 18 mins and then go in to either lie her down or tummy rub and wait till she fell asleep. We never got past 18 mins (except on 1st night) The issue after dummy removal was that the daytime naps started to become haywire.

Starting to panic we've a) ruined dummies for her (surely after a week she cant have forgotten) and b) I've upset her so much 😒

That's CC! Next time you are distressed, go 18 minutes without human interaction and actually make it so NO ONE comes to you for the entire time and see how long it feels. It's a life time to a child and as a starting point 18 minutes is awful! You are supposed to increase the time away and start low, not start that long - not criticizing you, your sleep consultant should have known better!

Re your message that all sleep consultants have different starting points, yes, they do. But all know that almost 20 minutes is TOO LONG. It doesn't teach baby to self sooth, it teaches them that no one comes when you are upset, so they learn (not overnight, don't worry about your LO with this) not to cry as no one comes. Therefore parents think "ah ha, we did it" when actually, no... they didn't.

The dummy is a novelty now, so give her some time to get used to it.

It may just be that your LO wakes naturally at 5am, some do. But all this stress (for you all) for a unbroken nights sleep is too much for her.

For context, I have a bad sleeper, she is 11. Nothing has worked, except meds (it is part of her autism) so I DO know what it's like to struggle with little sleep.

@differentnameforthis
Just a question Re your last comment. I have AS and have taken medication for it since the same age as your daughter. I didn't realise it could be linked to as, is this common?

I'll say it again..any sleep consultant worth their salt knows that timed pop ins aren't necessary.

@Becstar90 I dont think its necessary, or particularly nice, to comment that someone shouldn't have had a baby if they cant handle their crying. I handled her colic crying for 4 hours straight every night for over 14 weeks (my husband and I are proud of how well we coped). Any mother worth their salt will tell you hearing their baby cry continuously is hard and would do anything for them be calm and sleep. If any mother says that they dont, they are lying.

I meant the method wasnt crying it out ( I used to get a bit confused about the difference between the methods). This is my first baby, and when looking to an expert you take advice. Like I have said a million times, apart from the first night we never got to 18 mins. It's her daytime sleeps, where I keep going in after 10 mins that seems to be getting worse.

The whole point of this post was to look for advice. It's very easy to critisice someone when it's not to their face. Every parent has different views. You may agree, you may not agree and that is your choice.if you dont agree, give constructive advice. But to criticise a fellow mum (and if you're not a mum, then I don't think you should be commenting) is not what this post or this forum is about. We are so lucky in this day and age to be in a world where we have such a vast pool or knowledge and advice from various sources and we should embrace that by supporting each other. Not using it as a device to criticise someone's choices. I've obviously been worried, and therefore come on here for advice. What do you think negative comments do for anyone coming on here? Do you think it helps? Do you think your words have given some comfort in anyway when all you've done is slag off someone's choices.

I'm going to stop this post now as what started out as some very helpful advice from @FATEdestiny is now beginning to feel like it's going to turn into a slagging off session.

someone shouldn't have had a baby if they cant handle their crying.

Sorry but it's very true.
It's the one thing drummed into us from the beginning, 'you'll get no sleep.'

A sleep consultant isn't necessary at all. It's developmental, like potty training.

@PatricksRum yes everyone tells you when you're pregnant you'll get no sleep. You even know yourself and prepare yourself for no sleep. But actually experiencing it every night is a totally different thing. Nothing prepares you for it. And nearly 10 months down the line we knew being rocked to sleep and having a feed that she didnt really need was something that had to change. Asking for advice from someone who's job it is, is no different then asking advice from a friend or family member.

But still to say to someone they shouldn't have had their baby if they cant handle crying is an awful thing to say. We were looking to change things not because we couldnt handle her crying. It's the lack of sleep. That's not an awful thing to want as a parent. Its not a selfish thing. To insinuate so is a cruel thing to do to any mother.

@Sleeplessmamma I agree. Nothing can prepare you for it.
I just wonder where our expectations come from in this western world. Lack of sleep is normal, leaving a baby to cry isn't.
I don't know why cc/ cio is even a thing. It's sad.
I don't believe in sleep training but there are gentle sleep training methods. As pp said your sleep 'consultant' sounds crap.

We used to clip a dummy to the shoulder of our kids's sleepsuits. They got brilliant at reaching for their shoulder, finding the ribbon and reinserting the dummy.
Dummies are such a fabulous soothing device.

We got rid of ours just around the 3rd birthday pretty easily with each child (we have 4) and they all have perfect teeth.

@PatricksRum it is thought that people with autism do not make enough melatonin.

If the baby is now sleeping through and you’re all sleeping why not just stop fretting about naps and let it sleep as and when it wants wherever you are?
It’s usually only first babies that are ‘put down’ to nap. Young siblings sleep in their pushchair, on the school run, on the floor or in the supermarket. It might be less stressful to not even try putting them down. When they need sleep they will sleep.

Crying out works well though. Short period of effective training from around nine months. It’s hard for parents but beneficial to all in longer term. Not really necessary if the infant is sleeping at night though.

@PatricksRum there are some parents that dont believe in letting their children cry at all. Some believe in letting their children cry a bit and not always running to them straight away (I'm somewhere in the middle of this).

My sleep consultant gave an interval time (wrongly or rightly) and once we got to that time we were to go in and tummy rub and soothe until asleep. But we never had to get to that point for night time. Daytime has been another issue.

It's your choice as a parent (I assume you are one) whether you believe in sleep training or not. Just like some parents give their kids dummies, some dont....some parents like teething beads, some find then dangerous. Basically there is always going to be different opinions. But if you are a parent then surely you should realise that helpful advice is what any mother would appreciate. Not criticism, or negativity. By all means give an opinion but follow up with helpful advice. Not just a critique.

Lack of sleep is normal. But ask any mother if they have a bad sleeper for a baby if they would like them to sleep more. Not one parent would answer "no it's ok, I dont mind having 3 hours sleep every night". Also couple with the fact of my health, lack of sleep was affecting it.

I feel like ik justifying again, I dont see why I should be. My main point to anyone, and i see it so much on this forum, what starts out as a post of asking for advice, turns into a witch hunt. We should all be sticking together and having each other backs. Not using it as an opportunity to score a point by telling someone how they've made a terrible choice

@Sleeplessmamma you get a lot of judgement here about CC. Different babies have different sleep issues and it can be really hard. As a mother you can always second guess yourself and worry if you are doing the right thing.
With regards to your LO crying before going off to sleep- when she wakes up is she happy in the cot? Does she play in the cot? My LO is younger than yours but used to hate his cot to and wouldn’t nap in it at all. I started by making being in the cot fun for him. I played with him in the cot and I introduced a comfort toy. He has it at bedtime and nap time. Could you try that instead of a dummy if you are not keen on a dummy? Nothing wrong with reintroducing the dummy if you want and there is lots of different advice about when to remove it (some say 6 months, some say 2 years) but only do what you are comfortable with.

@CherryPavlova this is the type of post that's needed. Gives an opinion, gives advice and is nice about it. That's all that's needed......I was literally thinking that earlier if she was my 2nd she would sleep anywhere. Think I've been worried as the daytime nap cry just seemed more heightened and been worried she was distressed. Thanks xx

And when I say I played with him in the cot I did this at a time different to his nap time. So made the room bright and brought all his favourite toys. Played for about 20 minutes or so then took him onto a different room. Did this for a couple of days and he was so much happier going into his cot at bedtime and nap time.

People across the world sleep train but often have to give it to someone else to do. The notion of happy Africans endlessly cuddling their babies as they smile and sing in the fields is so colonial.

A more accurate picture from somewhere like Somalia might be one of many older (around seven years old) siblings caring for an infant born through rape to an HIV positive mother who is trying to earn enough to feed her six children.
An Emirates infant is likely to be passed to the foreign nanny shortly after birth. The quality of care is very variable.
In rural South America, infants are often left with granny whilst the mother farms or walks many miles to town to sell tiny amounts of produce.

Let’s not spread the misogyny that mothers who need to sleep are cruel or neglectful. Sleep training does not have negative effects. Quite the opposite.

Sounds like you have made great progress with sleep! People are bizarrely sensitive about sleep training, I can never understand why. Sleep is so, so important to babies development (as well as your wellbeing, although god forbid anyone suggest that!).

With regards to the dummy - I was also worried about looking for the dummy waking DD slightly. Since about 7m she has 2 x sleepytots which have 4 dummies attached each, as well as a loose dummy. She loves them - they are like snuggly comforters and she finds the dummies instantly. Since we introduced them she has slept through with no crying to a decent hour. (She’s just turned 3 though and really need to get rid!).

When she wakes shes is a very happy baby. Also when she wakes in the morning she just sits happily until we go in. She is such a smiley baby anyway and gets so excited when you go in I love going to see her in the morning. We are starting to play morenin her room and shes fine playing in her cot with toys thats not bedtime.

OP I think you're having such a hard time here and I go sympathise. We used a sleep consultant and it was hands down the best thing we did.

I wouldn't worry about the day times if little one is sleeping well at night - cut yourself some slack all this worry isn't helping you ❤️ I hope you get resolved and enjoy your baby x

She sounds very content, and the fact she is happy in her room should be really reassuring. You have done the right thing!

Trying to improve sleep / encourage independent sleep is much harder the older babies / children get, and more traumatic for everyone. Doing it now was the best thing you could have done for your family.

@differentnameforthis Thank you!!

@Sleeplessmamma You don't need to justify yourself do anyone. No one does. It just saddens me to think of baby crying alone scared. It's horrible.
The only way around these issues is to alter our thinking towards babies and their natural sleeping habits.
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@CherryPavlova
Sleep training does not have negative effects. Quite the opposite.*

Which positive effects does it have for a baby? Especially this extreme of sleep training.
The UK is much more modernised than someone living in Somalia trying to earn enough to feed her six children, it's accurate to say our approach to babies is more modern and less natural. Prams, sleeping arrangements.