Terrible Guilt - Sleep training

[DoveGreylove]

The title says it all really. I have a 6 month old who has never been able to self soothe and never nap in her cot. Her nights are bad too, waking 4-5 times. I have always had to rock her or feed her or walk her to sleep. I have realised I just can't do this anymore. I am on my last legs. I am slipping into PND. I am so exhausted. I cry all the time. I don't socialise anymore as I feel I can't because she won't sleep anywhere.

I have resorted to sleep training. "gentle" sleep training. You put them in their cot awake and stay in the room with them, able to shush them or say key phrases to them and picking up is the last resort.

I just watched her (well more like listened) to her cry for one whole hour. One whole hour I let her cry. I picked her up 3 times. I put my hand on her, I shushed her.

I cried.

She fell asleep after about an hour or so.

Then woke up after 5mins.

Please. Can anyone explain how this is going to help her??? I have so many friends tell me this is the only way she will learn to go to sleep. She will then sleep better at night. I know I am depressed and I cry most days due to her lack of sleep but this isn't helping me either.

Just wanted to vent really... I'd love some support or advice. I feel like having a baby is the worst decision I have ever made, a terrible mistake. Which makes me so sad as it's all I ever wanted.

I am so so sorry for how you're feeling right now and wish I could give you some great advice but I'm in a similar situation with my 15 month old and just recently made a thread about it.

When you have a terrible sleeper I think its natural to have these kinds of thoughts sometimes so don't beat yourself up about it. I understand the crying and the anguish and frustration because I feel exactly the same. When my DS was 7 months we went through a particularly bad time when he was waking up every 2 hours on the dot. It affected me so much I couldn't even function. All I was thinking about was sleep sleep sleep.

With your little one, what happens if you put her in the cot when she is a bit drowsy/half asleep? Does she wake up straightaway? Rocking and walking with to sleep is exhausting and only gets harder as they get bigger. Some nights its the only way DS goes back to sleep.

Have you tried co sleeping?

Hi OP, I am approaching this stage too and interested to follow thread. My DS has to fall asleep with very loud noise eg hairdryer and being rocked so I feel your pain. We had a couple of nights at about 4 months where he slept through the night, now he wakes 4/5 times during the night. I’m sorry I have no advice but know that you aren’t alone and I feel the exact same. The crying it out will not work for me either as he has stamina and has cried for hours on end before even with picking up and shushing etc. Hang in there x

She is only 6 months old, you perhaps need to adjust your expectations and do what you can to maximise your own sleep.
I never sleep trained and couldn't even consider it. He now goes to bed fairly easily in 10-20 minutes and unless he's bothered by last teeth/ illness, he maybe wakes once or sometimes he sleeps through. I have an evening where I can have leisure time. I don't tend to go out, but then I didn't before he arrived.

But it took way longer than the 6 month mark to get to that point. For a starter, it's still very normal to need one or more feeds in the night.

Oh lovely please don’t let your baby cry again. It’s not helping either of you. At 6 months they do wake loads because they need milk and because they have loads going in developmental. It’s normal for adults to wake during the night.

Do you have a partner? Can they help out at night? Cosleeping can be a sanity saver.

@Harrysmummy246 bit judgemental and unfeeling. Pleased for you that you haven't considered sleep training but that's not helping OP. Adjusting her expectations also isn't going to help her with the very real effects of sleep deprivation.

Totally feel for you OP. All our sleeps involve tears to some degree. He just fights fights fights sleep despite us having tried everything. I got to the point where I was on my knees and regretting having children. Considered sleep training, even cry it out because then at least he would be rested and less grumpy and have a mother who wasn't constantly exhausted and on the brink of tears.

He still wakes 6 times a night but for the first half of the night I get my husband to settle him as he doesn't need a feed until 2am really. We made the effort to drop the 11pm feed so I could sleep. It was tough but we did it. Often it works and I get 5 hours sleep (I go to bed really early).

Don't have the answers but I am there with you and you'll ge through it. It's such a test of endurance so well done for making it this far.xxx

Sorry for the essay!

. I have a 6 month old who has never been able to self soothe and never nap in her cot. Her nights are bad too, waking 4-5 times.
Sorry to say it all sounds normal to me, and – don't hate me! – 4-5 times is pretty good! My 9-month-old DD's BEST-EVER night was 4 wake-ups. Her average is 800.

We've only just got her doing cot naps at 9 months and they only last 30 minutes each. It does help though – time for tea and a wee. Keep persevering! (I put her in fast asleep, btw, zero drowsy but awake/self soothing.) She naps better in the carrier on DP, less well on me in the sling. Good naps make zero difference to night wake-ups.

Mine can put herself to sleep during the night and it makes zero difference to wake ups so don't worry about self soothing.

My best advice is SURVIVE. It's really hard to change what the baby is doing – especially as they go through so many growth spurts and regressions and developmental changes – so change what you do to survive:

Sidecar the cot so you can feed back to sleep without getting up or opening your eyes. Even better if you can feed lying down, or you can leave a boob out for the baby to sort themselves out. (Mine doesn't; she yells until picked up, the bellend.)

Nap where and when you can. Ignore the housework. Get DH to do all the naps and mornings at weekends so you get naps and lie-ins.

Pour coffee directly onto your eyeballs, eat a lot of cake, go to bed early, find a PND support group locally and get a WhatsApp chat going, plan your revenge for the teenage years when they won't get up.

You poor thing! Sleep training feels unnatural because it is fairly unnatural. Your baby is perfectly normal for wanting to be with her mummy. You are her protector and she feels safe with you. Don't worry about that. It will pass. For now, have you tried co sleeping?

I just gave up and co slept. Sleep all round!

It's so hard. I've been in a similar situation sleep wise. Can you afford a sleep nanny/consultant to help? Sounds like you could really use support whilst doing this. I just used one for my 10 month old and it was the best Christmas present I could've bought myself x

OP you're sleep deprived- worst feeling in the world, and everything feels catastrophic.

I personally advocate sleep training - and by that I dont mean leaving your baby to cry for an hour alone.
I put my baby in a cot in their own room (fed, dry, not teething, not ill etc), and said the same phrase every night. She cried, and i went back in to soothe her every 2 mins, left, every 5 mins, left, 10mins was the max time I left her and went back and forth every 10mins.
A good nights sleep is worth its weight in gold for you and your baby. I did co sleep a lot when my LO was a newborn but it got to a stage where it was keeping us all awake and defeating the object. You do what's best for your family, dont feel like sleep training is bad and you will be judged. Do what you need to do.

If it makes you upset you don't have to sleep train. I say this as someone who is also exhausted. My 14 month old woke up 5 times last night.

I'm fed up of getting up so going to try co sleeping to see if it helps.

I did sleep training with my first and still feel a bit guilty and it didn't ever work long term.

(Mine doesn't; she yells until picked up, the bellend.)
Made me laugh!

My DD who is now 3 would not sleep for the first 6 months. I felt like you so I decided to let her cry it out. It was awful at first but after a while she started to sleep through from 6pm to 6am and has done ever since. Best decision I ever made.

Was very hard to sit and hear her cry but to be honest, she was so much happier in general because she was not exhausted.

Good luck

Forgot to add I now have a DS 5 months and I co sleep with him With my boob out so he can help himself. Don't get much sleep because I'm uncomfortable but definitely more than i would otherwise

Thank you everyone for your replies xxx

@Elopelo With your little one, what happens if you put her in the cot when she is a bit drowsy/half asleep? Does she wake up straightaway?
She wakes up immediately yes, it doesnt matter if i rock her to sleep she will open her eyes and cry as soon as i put her down! The only time she will stay asleep is bed time if I can feed her to sleep. She tends to stay asleep when I put her in the cot.

@Hoolahlah66 Good luck with your little one. This one has stamina like yours it frustrates me so so much. I wish I had a baby who wanted to sleep.

@Harrysmummy246 I think my expectations are fine actually - I always plan to feed her twice a night, I know its not normal for them to sleep through the night especially exclusively breast fed babies. I also know it's normal for parents to be tired and exhausted, it's all everyone ever warned us about. But I think my expectations are to find a way to get her to sleep without screaming in her cot or without me having to walk her three or four times a day?? This cannot be normal.

@Selfsettling3 My partner doesn't really help in the night no. He has work and has to function the next day. And as im exclusively breastfeeding he can't really help in the night anyway!! So annoying...

@SundayGirlB Thank you. it's so hard when they're fighters. So many of my friends don't seem to have this problem so I can feel very very lonely in my problems which doesn't help.

@burritofan Thank you for your advice I love it! Well done for getting through it, you must be so exhausted too.

it truly is a matter of survival.I feel im surviving not thriving, not living. It's not a great place to be. It feels like a job and not my life. Does anyone else feel like that??

@AiryFairyMum I did co-sleep when she was little yes but managed to move her into her cot when she was about 3 or 4 months. Although she creeps into my bed in the early hours still as im so exhausted to keep getting up to her. Problem is she'd feed ALL NIGHT if she could if I left my boob out (which i do otherwise she cries when i put it away) which can keep me awake as i get so uncomfortable. @yellowallpaper

@cherrypiemay16 We have spoken to a sleep consultant but it involves the crying with my baby as shes so stubborn, despite it being gentle training:( How did yo get on when your little one cried?how long did they cry for? how long did it take for them to stop crying so much? I just worry i am harming her. @OnlyFoolsnMothers @novacaneforthepainSame questions to you?how did you get through it? how long did it take for your baby to stop crying? Its the naps that are the WORST.

@BergamotMouse I can see the guilt for sure.did it help your sanity though?

I never sleep trained with naps- they were never linear until closer to 9 months. She often slept on me in the day which I didn’t mind and then I’d transition her to her Cot if I needed to get on with things.
Like I said I never ignored my DC when sleep training for longer than 10mins, probably lasted an hr the first night and decreased, eventually self settling within a few days. Still the odd night after that where settling was hard but I just followed the same routine (in after 2 mins, 5mins), never went more than 10mins with out reminding her I was there. Consistency is key.
Now at 2yrs old, if she doesn’t fall asleep straight away sometimes she will just talk to herself until she nods off.
It really helped reminding myself (and indeed checking) that my baby was always dry, fed and not ill when I was training, then I knew she wasn’t crying for need but rather because of the Change in routine. I didn’t feel guilty knowing that.

Hi OP, I have been speaking to a sleep consultant (my DD is the same as you and will wake up as soon as put down). She'll only sleep ON me basically using my boob as a dummy all night.

The sleep consultant is suggesting a similar process to the one you are using:
Put baby down awake, leave the room.
If baby cries, wait one minute, then go back in and shush, pat, stroke (but do not pick up until last resort). Once asleep, leave the room (she said this can take up to around an hour for most babies the first time), but will gradually reduce over time. Repeat process if they wake.

You are teaching her to be comfortable sleeping on her own and self settling. You are not abandoning her as you are in the room. She is crying because she's learning something new and it's hard, but as she learns to do it, it will become easier. I think the first few nights are incredibly hard, but it does get better.

I find it annoying when people say "just enjoy the cuddles". It's dangerous for both mother and baby physically and emotionally if you are completely exhausted. The happiest mother's and babies and the ones getting proper sleep.

Stick at it, but maybe speak to a sleep consultant for reassurance?

@OnlyFoolsnMothers I can't get my baby to sleep during the day other than feeding (and only sometimes) and she will never be transferred to the cot - she just wakes up immediately!! My baby cried for 1 hour 50mins the first time we tried it and I felt that was just too long for a poor baby to cry for??

@littlebabybum
The happiest mother's and babies and the ones getting proper sleep. Im sure you're right. I know I need sleep. I just feel like the poor thing is traumatised and upset. I wish I understood what she was saying when she cries.If she is just protesting in an angry way I guess I could accept that.. but I don't know if she is crying because is upset, alone, scared etc...

When she was a newborn she cried all the time and I would get so upset as I couldn't help her. It really traumatised me to be honest. So now being the REASON for her crying, I just can't deal with it. Am I being more OTT than most people? Too sensitive?

what’s the longest you’re leaving her for in that time frame OP?

@OnlyFoolsnMothers My husband was in the room with her the whole time, able to shush her etc. I had to go in myself and pick her up twice.

We actually felt like being in the room didn't help her or make much of a difference to the crying!

Being in the room won’t help. I would advocate the going in every 1/5/10 mins - commit to it for a few days. When you go into the room, Say ssshh rub her back and then walk back out.

Reflux? She could be in pain lying down with acid bubbling into her throat. My daughter had reflux and cried when we put her to sleep - propping her mattress at one end so she wasn’t lying flat helped.

@OnlyFoolsnMothers Yeah I agree. I just clearly don't have the stamina for it which is ridiculous considering how exhausted I am and how depressed I can get. It's so hard for me to be the reason for her to cry even though I know this is a proven method to help.

@Anonanonanonanonanonanonanon I always wondered that but she will lie down in the pram and once she's asleep she's OK? She's 6 months now so I'd feel pretty awful if this has been her problem the whole time... I have had the cot propped up before and it made no difference.

It’s not you it’s change- we more easily go through weaning and potty training because we know we have to do it and it’s for their own good. That’s why I checked myself during training: are they hungry- no, wet- no, ill or teething- if all no then I know I’m not causing harm by leaving for 10mins max at a time.

She is still very little OP. My two would only nap in their prams (I'd put them by the back door and push them back and forth or go for a walk at each nap time. 8 know it's exhausting and incredibly hard but everything you're describing sounds very normal. Both mine didn't sleep through until 2, waking ridiculous amounts in the night so I completely understand.