Terrible Guilt - Sleep training

[DoveGreylove]

The title says it all really. I have a 6 month old who has never been able to self soothe and never nap in her cot. Her nights are bad too, waking 4-5 times. I have always had to rock her or feed her or walk her to sleep. I have realised I just can't do this anymore. I am on my last legs. I am slipping into PND. I am so exhausted. I cry all the time. I don't socialise anymore as I feel I can't because she won't sleep anywhere.

I have resorted to sleep training. "gentle" sleep training. You put them in their cot awake and stay in the room with them, able to shush them or say key phrases to them and picking up is the last resort.

I just watched her (well more like listened) to her cry for one whole hour. One whole hour I let her cry. I picked her up 3 times. I put my hand on her, I shushed her.

I cried.

She fell asleep after about an hour or so.

Then woke up after 5mins.

Please. Can anyone explain how this is going to help her??? I have so many friends tell me this is the only way she will learn to go to sleep. She will then sleep better at night. I know I am depressed and I cry most days due to her lack of sleep but this isn't helping me either.

Just wanted to vent really... I'd love some support or advice. I feel like having a baby is the worst decision I have ever made, a terrible mistake. Which makes me so sad as it's all I ever wanted.

OP - you get the baby you get. One of mine was just the sane and despite the hours and hours of effort I put in, never settled to cot naps. Ever. The other, totally different. Yes be amusing himself on the play mat, and 2 minutes later would be asleep. On his own!

I agree you do what you can to survive. I'm a fan of a side car cot an co sleeping. At that age I planned my outings so that they coincided with a nap, whether in the car or pram. If in the car if take a book to read once I got there.

6 months is very young to try to sleep train, and it doesn't sound like it's working for you or her. Maybe try again in a few months time. I had good results with gradual retreat with my non sleeper, for bedtimes.

Honestly? Stop breastfeeding and give her formula. Just try it.

@managedmis Honestly - I tried and she won't take a bottle!!

The number of times people have told me to switch to formula as though it's the magic answer...

This is totally normal.

It's quite sad that you're feeling to sleep train when a normal routine is already in place.

My 19 month old does that.

I was in your position six years ok, OP, trying sleep training out of pure desperation. It worked after a few nights... until something changed, travel or illness or something, and we were back to square one. I didn’t have the heart to do it again; I regret so much having tried it in the first place. We went back to co-sleeping for another couple of years.
With No. 2 we co-slept from the start in the knowledge that it would be for the long-term, and I can’t describe how much easier and less stressful the whole experience was. I have never worried about his sleep, not once. Once I’d mastered the knack of feeding in a side-lying position, I barely had to wake to feed him, and fell straight back to sleep afterwards.
We have No. 3 on the way now and will be doing the same.
So from my perspective, I would say to bring her into your bed and work on learning to feed in a comfortable position that allows you to sleep.

I’m sorry but your baby is completely normal - I have three children and none of them slept in a cot for a nap at six months.
They only slept on me or sometimes fell asleep on a walk or in the sling.
Babies also wake constantly during the night - for milk, for cuddles... not to be alone in the dark. Their tiny brains don’t know they are supposed to be adhering to rules.
Sleep training is brutal.
OP, can your partner help in any way? When my first was born (terrible sleeper), my DH held her or slept with her until about 1am so I could get a 9pm-1am chunk of sleep. Would something like that help you?

Hi OP, my LO is the same age and we are also having horrific sleep so I really feel you. It does definitely take it's toll emotionally.

Have you heard of the Wonder Weeks app? Basically around this time babies go through a big developmental shift when they start to understand distance and the fact that you're not with them - so will wake sounding very upset. I know it doesn't help you get more sleep but was reassuring for me to know it wasn't anything I'm doing wrong.

I don't really have any advice on improving sleep I'm sorry, just hoping it's going to improve over time! But I will just say to take it easy on yourself, don't aim to achieve too much in the day, and that it is totally normal to feel frustration towards your baby. I feel your pain and hope things get better for you! 💕

Just want to add that it will definitely improve for you OP and you snazzytoes. My 3rd and last baby is just turned 2 and still wakes 2-3 times a night. But I have two older children who have slept through for years now. This will all be a distant memory at some point. They do sleep eventually. Hang in there!

I wish I had some good advice but currently going through similar with my 9 month old. We maybe give in too easy because I don’t want to disturb our 4 year old in the night when she kicks off. i am
Beyond tired and back at work, some days I just sit and cry and feel like I’m failing. Then I pull myself together and get on with it, it’s only natural, sleep deprivation is so hard.

All I’ll say is just do whatever means you can get some sleep. Don’t put so much pressure on yourself. theres no right or wrong with these things, follow your gut instinct. Sleep training worked with my little boy after about 4 nights, but it’s not an option really this time.

I feel I should add I’ve posted on here several times begging for help and often received some rude and unhelpful comments. Take what helps you and keep your head held night, you’ve got this. It won’t last forever x

I really feel for you. My baby is on and off with sleeping through the night but terrible at naps. I tried some gentle sleep training for daytime naps I ended up sitting on the floor crying in the hallway while he was screaming. I then gave up and rocked him or put him in the pram ,the books might say don’t replace one association with another but rocking is better than feeding to sleep I think. But it can all go to shit again like now when he’s ill & teething, some nights I just let him sleep in bed with me and feed.
Then the next week we could be back to normal sleeping through and being rocked to sleep , it just always changes.

I was getting my self in such a state though like you as I also have pnd and ptsd, I’d say just do whatever you can to get sleep atm , you can try rocking and also offering water and then if it doesn’t work and your baby gets too upset id just feed to sleep.

Also can you partner try with a bottle of you wanted too ? I’m on the verge of switching to formula as my baby is 7 months and I feel like I’ve done enough now. But I mixed fed at the beginning for a bit so he will take a bottle, I think if your partner tries with a bottle you’ve got more chance, and don’t feel guilty if you do want to switch to forumla!

You need naps too so get your partner to step up at weekends ! I’ve just started giving my baby to partner some mornings as he sleeps in another room. Hang in there your doing a great job ! It’s so hard to know what to do. It will get better soon that’s what I tell myself x

It's great to read lots of different experiences.

The only thing I'd say that I find a bit annoying is when people talk about co-sleeping as if it's the magic solution. It obviously works very well for a lot of people which is great but our little one will absolutely not go to sleep just because he's in our bed. We have tried literally hundreds of times, never worked once!

Just goes to show that every baby is different and they don't come with an instruction manual sadly 🤣

Please stop leaving your baby to cry. That doesn't help at all. Please research cortisol levels and normal baby sleep. Self settling can't be taught the child just gives up on the end as they know no one is coming. It's actually heartbreaking.

Unicef has warned leaving your child to cry especially for long periods can have an awful affect. Psychology Today have also done articles on the affects it can have on a babies development.

Please do some research, Sarah Ockwell-Smith also has more gentle methods and loads of reading for baby sleep.

It's hard but it shall pass... Know better. Do better.

I sleep trained at 13 months. I felt like the most evil person alive but it worked in a couple of nights. I felt I gave my daughter the gift of sleep and I was also a much better mother once I started getting sleep. 6 months is still young but I would continue to do the gentle sleep training where she knows you're there but you don't hold her to sleep. It'll work eventually.

I thought i'd give an up date - Baby has started to self settle without much crying. For naps she is only sleeping for 30 minutes at a time which is very frustrating, and it means she still isn't getting enough sleep. BUT it does mean i'm not out three times a day walking her in the cold rain crying because i'm feeling so miserable.

Nights aren't a lot better yet sadly. She still wakes up to 5 times. But she will settle herself at bedtime. She still seems to want comfort in the night.

@TisTheSeasonForMincePies

I do understand about cortisol levels and I have been very concerned about the effects all of this sleep training may have. I thought it had been proven that gentle sleep training WAS ok?? What do you mean by Know better. Do better. Not the best thing to say to someone who has PND...

Know better. Do better honestly OP do ignore some posters- i really dont care if people dont want to sleep train but the level of judgement from some posters is ridiculous. I never left my baby longer than 10mins, as repeatedly stated. I doubt all of us who have sleep trained have damaged our children.

OP you really need to change your thinking.
Waking up 5 times is completely normal.
As soon as you appreciate biological normal infant sleep and stop expecting a 6 month old to sleep like an independent adult you'll be much better off.

Well, DoveGrey, if your daughter did take a bottle of formula she would sleep better. Why not gradually introduce it, you've done brilliantly so far and nobody would blame you if you stopped breastfeeding now.

Co sleeping worked for mine, it was lovely and cosy and we all slept well.

@Bluerussian you have absolutely no way of knowing this.

Waking up 5 times is completely normal. As soon as you appreciate biological normal infant sleep and stop expecting a 6 month old to sleep like an independent adult you'll be much better off seems slightly condescending. For some babies it's normal for some it's not- equally if it's not sustainable for OP to be up that much and she wants to explore formula or self settling she should.

It’s condescending because it’s true. Studies show that babies just “give up” if they think nobody is coming to them. They still feel stressed - have raised cortisol - even when the crying stops.
The idea that they have happily just gone off to sleep is nonsense

Oly4 I have not advocated leaving a child to cry for hours...as mentioned many times there is a more gentle sleep training. I left my child for a max 10mins (building up from 1min, 5mins etc.) I also point out its not a hard and fast rule, a child can self settle and still wake in the night, a child can be teething or be unwell and I would never leave them to cry alone. You may want to check how the lack of sleep may disrupt development of a child's brain...many of the parents I know who didnt sleep train and co slept now have a 3/4 year old who goes to bed the same time as them i.e. 9pm

@PatricksRum Waking up 5 times is completely normal.
As soon as you appreciate biological normal infant sleep and stop expecting a 6 month old to sleep like an independent adult you'll be much better off.
I do understand that it is totally normal for a baby to wake in the night of course, and still acceptable for a baby of 6 months to need to feed. BUT I don't think it's completely normal for a baby to wake 5 times a night, I really don't. I have so many friends who's baby's just wake to feed once or twice or NOT AT ALL. Am I just unlucky that I have lots of friends who's baby's sleep!?

@Bluerussian @Nifflernancy There is absolutely no way you'd know for sure that giving her formula would help her sleep...?! I don't have a problem with it - she just doesn't take a bottle! If I could try this I really would.. it's exhausting exclusively breastfeeding. And lonely.

@Oly4 I do share your point of view to an extent. It does / did worry me that she felt abandoned. But it's actually working relatively well and I don't think she's giving up on being comforted, I feel like she's just actually closing her eyes to sleep. I hate hearing her cry and would never leave her to cry without going to her.. especially if i felt she was upset or in pain or uncomfortable.

I think this is one of those issues that just divides people. I’ve got 3 kids and not sleep trained any of them. They all sleep through now and go to bed at 7pm very happily. I just feel it’s unnecessary to sleep train.
But only you know the right thing for you. So best of luck, genuinely

ps I agree with you that formula won’t be a magic bullet

@DoveGreylove
It is normal. Search on Facebook "biologically normal infant sleep"

My lo wakes up about ten times a night at nearly 2 years old.

The fact you don't think it's normal means you haven't researched it.

When you change your expectations it will get better as I said.