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Waiting it out

449 replies

burritofan · 18/09/2019 20:28

Is anyone else following the extremely vague and lazy "wait it out and hope it spontaneously resolves itself, maybe solids/crawling/walking/time/eventual night-weaning/magic/bribery once she can talk or be reasoned with" baby sleep plan?

We're nipple-deep in the four-month regression, which followed fast from the 8-week-jabs endless night poo era, then the 12-week hourly waking growth spurt. Throw early teething,

a late tongue tie division and a crap reaction to 16-week jabs into the mix – all in the same week! Which is when she migrated from Snuzpod to sleeping in my armpit – and you get a shitstorm of night wakings, my solution to which is:

plonk baby (now 21 weeks) in bed with me each night – after first making comatose with boob after rock-solid bedtime routine – and reapply boob as needed. Sometimes sleepily snuggling works in the middle of the night. Sometimes she wakes, babbles, pats around to check I'm there, and resettles. (Rare as a unanimous AIBU? thread, but like sunshine when it happens!)

Sometimes we start the night with a 3-hour chunk, other times 45 minutes. Some nights she wakes up only 4 times, others what feels like 4,000. Very little crying unless more teeth/colds, in which case howling then calpol and boob and a lie-in if she grants it. (I know the advice is to wake at the same time each day but (a) the baby wakes herself at the crack of dawn most days and when she doesn't (b) if she was up for two hours howling because of her teeth, I'm not going to enforce a wake-up for the sake of some Gina Ford nonsense.)

The 45-minute wake-ups are guaranteed if I put her down in her sidecar crib now, or even if leave the room – sometimes she wakes straight away if I try to swap with DP. Even in deep sleep she has a batlike sense for my being in the room. She generally starts the night starfished on the bed; as the night goes on she gets more unsettled and likes my armpit to snuggle into best. Perhaps it's the woolly mammoth furriness?

She's not great at feeding lying down but I'm persevering because I'm lazy. Occasionally I attempt the pull-off thing of putting my finger in her mouth to delatch once she's asleep but I'm too knackered to do it consistently or time it to gradually reduce feeds, I think I'm doing it in a half-hearted "gosh I really should sort this sleep thing". Mostly I do it so I can go to sleep if I'm feeding sitting up. I've no idea how to shhhh-pat; PUPD seems like an awful lot of effort with a heavy baby when I could be lying down, and deeply confusing; gradual chair or whatever makes me want to weep with exhaustion more than the current situation; CC or CIO is neverrrrrrr going to happen. On the other hand, I have wistful recollections of evenings, of my lovely DP, of times when I ate dinner somewhere other than over a snoozing baby's head in the dark...

Basically is anyone else doing what I'm doing to improve their baby's sleep, i.e. not very much at all, and wants to commiserate while we ride it out, slash create bad habits, construct towering Jengas of rods for backs, build sleep crutches, and generally arse it up? Any experienced "totally winged it and it worked out fine" mothers want to share delightful stories of "Oh one day he just pushed the boob away, fell asleep and did 12 hours and it's been a fairytale ever since, I got my bed and my sex life back" lazy parenting magic?

DP & I are softies who plan on an open-door policy of "if the kid can't sleep because of nightmares or growing pains, come on in our bed, they're only little", have fond memories of childhood shenanigans of sleeping on the landing or sneaking down to see what the grown-ups are doing, BUT also have no interest in "giant floor bed co-sleeping til 20" and quite like each other and the idea of the kid in her own room eventually, it would be nice to have some hope.

::rambles on in a sleep-deprived manner while teething DD snores on my shoulder, preps coffee machine for tomorrow, hopes there are other chaotic parents out there doing the absolute least::

OP posts:
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2dogsand1baby · 09/10/2019 20:22

@burritofan I'm so pleased to hear I'm not alone, but so sorry to hear you're going through this too.

My little boy is 23 weeks. I've just put him to bed. I'm now clock-watching knowing that in 45 minutes he'll be screaming.

I'll frantically run upstairs and attempt to settle him, but I'll probably end up feeding him again. Then I'll give up with having an evening, and get into bed, putting him next to me so he can cling onto me like a koala bear.

Then repeat every 45 minutes until I give up at 6 or 7 in the morning.

Desperate for a light at the end of the tunnel!!

burritofan · 09/10/2019 20:28

2dogsand1baby I managed a whole 5 minutes of evening tonight before she sensed my absence. Currently she's in koala mode and once again DP will be delivering dinner à la bed to me.

Emma198 Thank you, already follow her!

Vaseline Dreamfeeds and fully waking up babies only work on babies that are actually asleep. DD wakes herself up often enough without me getting in on the action! But I do appreciate the sentiment behind the tips.

OP posts:
VaselineHero · 09/10/2019 20:35

Thats true! What about just swapping one of her night feeds to a calorie-laden bottle?

burritofan · 09/10/2019 20:41

I can try it! I'm able to pump an impressive amount, luckily. But I don't think she's waking from hunger so much as being unable to link sleep cycles, plus comfort – she basically sleeps in my armpit a lot of the time and senses if I leave the room, even if I'm ninja silent. And not sure she'd accept a bottle for the same reasons; it's not just about milk, it's about lovely snuggly mummy boob. And she feeds to comatose, rather than being put down drowsy but awake like your baby! You've got yourself a unicorn, enjoy it.

OP posts:
jomaIone · 09/10/2019 20:53

I waited it out. Couldn't leave her to Cry, broke my heart. Breast fed her to sleep until 18 months then went away for a couple of nights and my husband put her to bed with nursery rhymes and snuck out and she went to sleep on her own with no fuss and has slept through ever since bar the odd night.

VaselineHero · 09/10/2019 21:04

I don't really understand it. Mine can't link any of her nap cycles during the day - wakes at 45 mins on the button. And she needs to be cuddled, rocked etc to full floppy limbed sleep before being put down at night time. All I can think of is that she doesn't have an association of boob or me anymore as her dad tends to give her the bottle.

emwithme · 09/10/2019 23:44

I have found my people. The other babies we know all sleep, including 2 from our NCT group (out of 6) who go down drowsy-but-awake and then sleep for 12 hours. DD is 10 months old and averages 8 wakes a night. A good night is 4, a bad night is every 45 minutes or more. She has NEVER slept more than 3.5 hours at a stretch and will only settle for boob (or driving/walking fast in the pram). I have so many rods, I'm thinking of opening an angling supplies store.

She has a beautiful nursery and spends her nights alternating between co-sleeping and the travel cot in the corner of the spare room.

I have learned that her Dad only started sleeping through at 3.10 years when he started nursery. Erm, yay?

bottomflannel · 10/10/2019 08:02

From what I know, milk you produce overnight has a greater concentration of sleepy-inducing stuff than milk you produce in the daytime. Or, in more sciency terms:

Breastmilk contains tryptophan, an amino acid used by the body to make melatonin. Melatonin is a hormone that helps induce and regulate sleep. Tryptophan levels in breastmilk rise and fall according to maternal circadian rhythms. Breastfeeding can help develop babies’ circadian rhythms, and help them to settle to sleep better at night.

So I suppose milk pumped in the day will have less of the good sleepy stuff in it. But as with anything else, it’s worth a shot.

Little one woke at 6am this morning with a huge poo, so that was when our day started. Was nice to see DH a little bit before he went to work at 6.45am, but god the day is going to feel long. For him too, I imagine - he kept hold of DS last night until 12.40am so I could sleep a bit more and he has to get up at 5.30am for work :( So while I’m grateful for the sleep, I wish he’d woken me earlier as I now have The Guilt. DS2 peed all over himself at nappy change so by the time I’d got him cleaned up, redressed and back asleep I was wide awake and stressing about money worries. FGS. Don’t feel too bad this morning though.

Thanks to his early morning poo, DS2 is currently sleeping in the Ergo we used to carry DS1 in - not entirely sure its a legit one but it’s sturdy enough and he doesn’t yet seem to like the new genuine Ergo we splashed out on. Sensing a pattern with regards new stuff and his liking for it...

Right, time to chivvy DS1 upstairs to brush teeth and stuff. Hope you all have a nice day.

UnaOfStormhold · 10/10/2019 09:06

Oh god this takes me back to those hellish nights that seemed never-ending. I would definitely recommend trying to find what helps you survive. For us that was splitting the nights into shifts so each of us got an uninterrupted stretch of sleep - made so much difference! It took a bit of persistence to get DS to accept being settled with a bottle of expressed milk and Daddy cuddles but I did go with the approach that crying while being comforted by a trusted person was very different from CIO or CC.

I think if we were lucky enough to conceive again I would definitely go with the flow even more - most of our attempts to improve things were more stressful for us without making a significant difference for example we night weaned and weaned completely without much impact on sleep. But it did get gradually better on its own. In the end he just suddenly started sleeping through in his second term at school

I can recommend the blog "how to survive a sleep thief' -no advice but very funny.

Harrysmummy246 · 10/10/2019 10:54

Vaseline, it's not quite like that. And actually you make hormones in your milk at night that help your baby (and yourself go back to sleep)

And foremilk/hindmilk is a continuum rather than a definite point. And needs a child that can be kidded into taking a bottle at night (mine never could after 4 mo). Plus recommendation for feeding rate to BF babies from a bottle is still 1- 2 ish oz per hour and paced feeding.

I think you're just lucky!

VaselineHero · 10/10/2019 16:34

Fair enough. I know it's different for every baby. It's always worth sharing what we have found helps just in case it works for someone else or gives them an idea.

burritofan · 13/10/2019 10:14

How are we all doing?

The cold that will not end is still wreaking havoc on sleep; lots of waking herself up coughing just as she gets transferred to mattress. Snuffle Babe, Calpol plug-in – which DP sweetly thought vapourised calpol into the air for all-night medication… – Calpol itself, smudging the room with a sage stick, feng shui, all failing to touch the edges. Though she did only wake up once before midnight last night! Then the coach turned back into a pumpkin and all sleep hell broke loose.

We are however today assembling a full-size cot! Side carring it in place of the Snuzpod, as I think her arms hitting the sides wakes her sometimes. Our bedroom is so small it will mean wedging ourselves through the door sideways, DP losing his nightstand, and crawling into the bed from the end. But I expect it will be the key to sleeping 7-7! In about 7 years…

OP posts:
Harrysmummy246 · 13/10/2019 11:20

I had a poorly wee boy yesterday- bit of a temperature/ snuffle but very very cuddly and not eating so definitely not feeling well. SO he's had a couple of bad nights but even when he's been asleep I bloody haven't.

Husband talked about having to wean him off the night time cuddles again. To which i basically replied that he's only two and he has done it himself previously. We're just having a bad spell again. It's not really like it's his decision. He said something about making it harder for him when I'm away but that's a couple of times a year so shrug. Just so happens it will be next weekend.

JohnLapsleyParlabane · 13/10/2019 18:57

Having battled through the 4week cold, during which we have begun weaning and DS has cut two teeth, and DH fecked off for a work jolly, and DD4 suddenly forgot how to go to sleep...last night both children slept through.
In their own beds.
In the same room as each other.
Not. Touching. Me.
(DS had a feed 12-1 in his bed and another 6-7 in with me, but fuck it, it was a serious win).

I, of course panicked on an hourly basis, checked on them 3657 times and am a gibbering wreck today.
They'll never do it again, will they?

bottomflannel · 13/10/2019 19:00

We’ve done the same with our bedroom, burrito, though I’ve been finding it really hard to transfer baby while the cot’s been sidecarred so we are experimenting with having the side up and the cot slightly apart from the bed so I can easily stand, rock and put him down (well, the first two of those are easy). First try with it last night and it wasn’t too bad - brought him back into bed with me at 3am though. Would you believe it - I had trouble sleeping without him next to me. Woke every half hour or so to check he was OK as I couldn’t just reach over and gently feel his chest rising and falling. Tonight though, he is resisting me putting him down, so I imagine he’ll be in with me tonight and it will be business as usual.

He’s woken at 5.30am the past two days, which is haaaaaaard after being awake in the night so much. Fingers crossed it’s a phase...

He’s changing so fast now. He’s discovered his voice and is using it to shout very very loudly at any opportunity, whether he’s happy, sad, tired. Very funny but I’m going to need to restock on paracetamol...

bottomflannel · 13/10/2019 19:02

John Incredible stuff! Just sorry you didn’t reap any of the benefits. Hoping for a repeat performance for you tonight so you can get some rest.

lambdroid · 13/10/2019 19:26

Hit breaking point here and my partner has FINALLY stepped up. He’s now doing the first shift so I feed her at 9:30/10:00 and then sleep in the spare room until the next wake up so in theory I should have an uninterrupted stretch of 3-4 hours before I go back in with her

What’s actually happening is that I wake up anyway and then can’t get back to sleep. I was awake 1am-5am last night and was only back with her from 2am.

I actually don’t know what to do!!

Whuut · 13/10/2019 20:42

Hey guys, any matchsticks left? Think I need some just to write this.

I'm almost at breaking point with you @lambdroid, sorry to hear you couldn't rest. It's so annoying that even when you get the chance to sleep you realise you can't cus your sleeping patterns fucked. Glad DH has stepped up!

I'm just at a bit of a loss.. I don't feel like we've ever even had a routine, wake ups aren't at all predictable and for the last few nights I've spent almost all night either holding DS or feeding lying down; I haven't quite got the hang of it tho so wake up with a buggered back every morning. I know he can settle himself, I've seen him do it, he just doesn't want to!

On the plus side, he has started letting his dad put him down to sleep for naps and sometimes if he won't feed back sleep in the night and it's been a while, I pass him over to DP. Like I said tho, when this happens I can rarely fall back to sleep, I just lay there, silent with rage. And pure love because he's started singing to himself and it's just too darn cute!

@JohnLapsleyParlabane Amazing!! Let's hope it does happen again. At about 8 weeks DS randomly started sleeping 7hr stretches and waking just once to feed (I know, wtf happened!) but I woke every hour checking he was still breathing. By the time I relaxed and was ready to sleep stretches with him, he decided to go back to hourly wake ups. What a tease.

Whuut · 13/10/2019 20:43

@burritofan even 7-7 in 7 years sounds a bit ambitious. I don't believe children ever sleep through, it's all a lie.

burritofan · 14/10/2019 08:44

I don't believe children ever sleep through, it's all a lie.
I second this knackered emotion. I read people's lies posts saying stuff like "We had a firm routine from day 1, boob, bath, book, into their basket, said night-night and shut the door and didn't hear a peep, I won't stand for nonsense, they haven't bothered me since, think they still live here but they're very self-sufficient" or "slept through when he discovered his thumb at 12 weeks" and just think, are we talking about a different species of baby?

Last night she excelled herself: longest sleep 45 minutes. Shortest: 3 minutes. She even self-settled at one point! Woke up fully, crawled around the cot, got comfortable on her tummy and groaned herself to sleep. Then woke up NINE MILLION TIMES.

lambdroid and Whuut sorry about the insomnia. Obviously sleeping tablets are out but can you get hold of some super-strong anti-histimine? Ask at the counter and say your GP has recommended the drowsiest one to help you sleep; it does help! Also going through each body part one by one to make sure you're truly relaxed, ie think "left foot", flex it and let go. All the way up your body. I'm always surprised by how tense I am even when reclining. When you get to your head, make sure your tongue isn't touching the roof of your mouth. By the time you do all this, you should be almost asleep, and the baby should wake up.

OP posts:
Whuut · 14/10/2019 12:48

@burritofan Wooo check you out with your 45mins. Haha yep, swear I've been blessed with some new species of sleep resistant baby. Just counting on that fact he's gonna be super smart cus he's spend so much time awake... Clutching over here.

Would rather not go down the medicine route but I may have to. DS is basically thrashing around all night unless boob in mouth or I hold him. It means he's sleeping relatively well, but I'm up all night keeping him asleep. I'm too lazy to rock him most of the time so end up giving him the boob, which I'm sure is just another rod to add to my collection. Anyone think I should try and not do this?

He's 15 weeks now and I think he may be in the 4month regression, I'm actually not sure tho cus he hardly had anything to regress from. I only think this as he's in the middle of leap 4 and the all night thrashing, every night is new.

I've actually not a clue. Maybe I'm trying to think there's a reason for all this when actually, he's just a shit sleeper. I said to DP don't worry, it won't be forever, but I didn't even believe myself.

Harrysmummy246 · 14/10/2019 15:25

We're still poorly. Cuddles, coughing, shuffling round flapping and touching mummy. Then slept in til 9:30 after a 6:30 tantrum about something (not exactly sure)

No nap so far but who knows what will happen later. I've asked DH to be home promptly so I can cook as he's pretty clingy and short tempered (DS not DH)

bottomflannel · 14/10/2019 16:44

Whuut Sod rocking at stupid o’clock - I boob back to sleep, always! Probably a rod, but too knackered to care.

I never believed the lie either. But they do sleep eventually. My first was atrocious but since he turned two, unless he’s poorly (which he barely ever is, thank you boobs!) or has a bad dream, he has slept beautifully. It just takes them a long while to get there sometimes.

Sorry to hear about the sleeplessness. It is so hard to relax into sleep when you know you are likely to be woken up any moment :(

Teddyreddy · 15/10/2019 06:49

@burritofan I have also found my people. We're on DC3 who is 11 weeks. DC1 we did some gradual changes to bedtime routine to get him to go to sleep without boob and he slept through from about 15 months once teething paused. DC2 we had no time for that sort of thing and just kept feeding to sleep / cosleeping as she was an awful sleeper and nothing else seemed to work. She started sleeping through a bit over 2 when I weaned her because my milk dried up due to pregnancy with no 3. However, once teething calmed down at about 16 months it was mostly only one wake up and if I feed her she usually went back to sleep very quickly and I could move her back into her cosleeping cot - so they don't need to sleep through for life to get much better!

DC3 still senses when I put him down at bedtime and wakes so I'm doing the sitting in a dark room thing for the evening thing too... On a good night he starts in his own cot (next to our bed with the side off) before transitioning to my armpit, on a bad night that only lasts a few mimutes. He's pretty sicky so he keeps stirring because he got little bits of milk coming up. He doesn't necessarily wake up but it wakes me every time.. Today I am definitely going to need match sticks!

darceybussell · 15/10/2019 07:30

Hi all, just checking back in, had a bit of a shocker of a night last night, DS must surely have more teeth coming through because he was up every hour last night until about 2.30am, when he decided to get up and practise all his new words for 2 HOURS! On the one day I needed to get an early train to London so needed to be up and out of the door before 6.30. I swear he fucking knows when it's most inconvenient.

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