SLEEP IS FOR THE WEAK PART 5....... God have mercy!

[Tamdin]

Can't believe we're onto another new thread already!

Ginger sounds like a nightmare. Would it be worth asking on the CM board on here if anyone has recommendations? (If you haven't already that is!)

Meg, I eventually had to go back and feed him to sleep.
My LO is funny though. He's quite good at settling himself. And even sometimes if he isn't settling himself it doesn't help for me to be in the room because then he thinks we can play and there's no way he'll go to sleep. so if he starts to really cry, i go back in, try and settle him so he's not crying and then leave again. either that or i feed him to sleep if he'll allow it.
it's kinda the same as why we can't co-sleep, he just gets too excited about our presence and won't sleep!

ginger, that's so horrible about the CM situation. i'm mad at that CM that led you along and then got a job - whatever. that was so inconsiderate.
from what i've read, developmental milestones like standing, walking can really mess with their sleep because somehow their brains are organising the new skill and they do practice it in their sleep sometimes waking themselves up

Hiya, found you! I still belong here unfortunately

Ginger, my dd has done that when she learnt to stand and again when she learnt to walk. It is almost like a compulsion. Now she is older I just say lie down and she does (although thats a tricky skill to learn too). Amber, it is just a phase, honest! (although the next phase'll be along soon anyway... think thats why this sleep thing is so hard. two steps forward, one back )

Anyway, update on my situation:

16mth dd, has never slept through. Best 'usual' has been 8-3am then til 7ish. But usual usual is a later wake up but lots more wakings. Has a dummy for sleep. Never let her cry longer than about 20 secs (well, have done a few minutes a couple of times when nothing seems to work or in 'training' moments. Doesn't work anyway. She just wakes up more.) She doesn't cry to sleep (except if really really ill).

My news:
She is in a bed for the first time tonight!
Went to sleep brilliantly at 8 after usual routine. Amazingly let me leave after her milk with a 'night night darling' WIDE AWAKE (well, sleepy but not nearly asleep like normal) and then went to sleep happily.
Checked at 9.30 and she had woken and changed postion.
Woke at 10.30pm and was sat up. Said 'lie down' and she did but cried when I left room. So came back and tucked her in and she gestured for bottle. Gave her (bottle of) water. She drank for 10-20 secs then gave it back, gave her her dummy and she turned over so I left and said 'night night darling. All good and sorted in 2 mins!

Fingers crossed

How was the rest of your night, MM?

morning! i have popped in once or twice before (as cathcart) but i have a feeling you might see a little more of me at the moment if that is ok?

Hi pantsface , how's things? Come share your sleep problems...

hello!
I had 3 and a half hours sleep last night
My eyes are so sore, one of them has been weeping for the past fortnight - i look like this but not quite as happy!

Spent most of last night trying to convnce 6.5m dd that she didn't need to have my nipple in her mouth every hour or two in order to go to sleep.
I expect you've heard it all before....

Oh dear... sounds like my DS, so I have loads of sympathy, if no great words of wisdom! I am planning to try the gradual withdrawal/gradual retreat method, but can't really do anything til his eczema is better, as he scratches like mad if left to his own devices.

oh poor ds! I used to suffer terribly with eczema, it can make your life a misery.
Well last night I fed dd as normal before bed at 7pm and she went down with no probs as usual. fed at 9, fed at 11, when she woke at 1am I just tried to soothe her back to sleep. I didn't give in but she wasn't happy at all! Eventually she went to sleep at 2.30 which is when I managed to get my head down too. She then woke at 5am and I brought her into bed to feed as I usually do in the morn.

yeah, I know, I should have gone to bed early but I tried to go at 10.30 and just couldn't sleep so got up again at 11.30.

I think I am just going to work on cutting out one feed at atime during the night. I'll keep the late evning and the usual3am for now. I can handle once or twice. I think I'm in for a long slog....

she normally wakes 9pmish, 11pmish, 1amish,3am, 4am, 5am, 6am, wakes for the day sometime between 6 and 7.

How old is ds?

He is 6 months next week. Up til a few nights ago we were co-sleeping so I was less tired, but basically got fed up with DH being on sofa and having to do whole night shift on my own, plus DS stopped settling so well in with me, so now he is back in the cot.

Last night was fairly typical: Bed 7.45 (bf to sleep). Briefly woke at 9 (shushed) then 11, 1, 3 (didn't really settle til 4), 6 then up for the day at 7.

If he wakes before 11ish then he usually settles with a quick shush/pat and rolling him onto his side, but after that it is hard to settle him without boob. I half suspect he is just missing the comfort of co-sleeping, so hope it might settle down in a few more days. We're moving house next week and he's going into his own room, and I don't particularly want to be padding up and down the landing all night...

Does your LO nap OK? One consolation for me is that DS' naps have improved beyond belief in the last month or so, which means I get a bit of rest during the day.

oh, and I see you are a Fugazi fan... bet there's not that many of us on MN!

Meg, I reckon once the naps start to sort out, then the nighttime is coming soon. Well that's what happened for us anyway.
Pants, sorry to see you back here in a way - your night sounds awful, but i totally remember our nights being like that too. we are down to 2 feeds a night which i'm okay iwth for the moment, at least it allows decent stretches of sleep.
hi mummy magic, hope your night went okay.

morning all

welcome back pants face but you find yourself here.

Mummy magic hope dd continued with her excellent night. well done all of you.
can't wait until we move and ds(18m) can go in his own proper bed. For now we'll continue to co-sleep.

IBS hope you an dd have recovered from the shock of her fall. Don't worry it happens all the time and only gets worse the older they get! ds hurts himself at least once a day. this morning he poked himself in the eye with his wooden hammer! Quite funny actually but had to sympathise poor baby

meg taht sounds like a tough night but remember it so well. It'll pass and before you know it he'll stretch to 3 hours then 4. getting past the 4 hour waking has been the toughest one for us and has only improved with age.

Hi amber don't know how your night was (or maybe i've missed it )but hope it was ok.

Our night was the good (ish)
bed 7pm
woke at 1am (bottle 4oz)
woke at 3am (wanted more milk but was told no, had mini tantrum but eventually realised i was not giving in and had water instead)
woke at 6.50 for the day

doesn't look good written down but in between the waking he was in a very deep sleep and the wakings only lasted a few minutes.

Would still rather he slept 12 hours straight but that ain't likely to happen anytime soon!

Can't believe I missed you out ginger
I am so on your behalf re cm. Swear to god if you lived nearby I would look after dd for you until you got sorted. Is there any way at all dh or another family member could take time out to come and stay with you and babysit for a week to give you more time?
could you look into getting a nanny on a very temporary contract 3 or 6 months? don't know if they even exist

oh tam, our night was good (normal even) woke at 12 and 5 for feeds, up at 7.30. that's as good as i can hope for at present and am totally okay with it even if i'd secretly like better.

morning all,

ginger - this whole CM situation sounds like such a nightmare. Like Tam, if there was any way I could help, I would (although given yesterday's experiences perhaps best not ). I really hope you find somewhere you like. And whatever you get doesn't have to be permanent, if something you prefer does come along...

mummy magic - hope the night finished as well as it started.

massive - how was last night? we recently cut down to one night feed, but I ff, and I gather it's much easier to cut formula feeds.

Amber glad you had an ok one. I know what you mean about hoping for better though

Tam glad your night was reasonable. I know what you mean about those brief wakings being a different kettle of fish to the midnight party sessions our LOs are keen on.

Meg - sorry the bad nights continue. but the naps are definitely little steps in the right direction. I'm sure you'll see some night-time improvements soon. If it helps we are totally dependent on:
a - dummy
b - swaddle
c - cuddle practically to sleep
if we are to get any longer stretches. I have nightmarish visions of doing the above with a 7 year old!

well our night was our "new normal" - asleep 7ish, awake for feed at 12.30, and mostly up with a few catnaps from 4.30am. I am seriously thinking about putting in a dream feed. However, we'll wait a couple of weeks yet, as DD and I both need to get her last nap properly dropped (she goes without 75% of the time, but is rather tetchy without it).

"morning" ? ? !

guess my body clock is now completely ruined by night waking!

Helllooooo all

well, am writing this as dd naps in her new bed (usually naps in our bed). She went off upstairs with me, i asked her where she wanted to sleep and she went to her bed. Gave her her dummy and her bear, tucked her in, had a quick cuddle. Said have a nice sleep sweetheart, mummy will be downstairs and went downstairs. She fell asleep (ALL ON HER OWN - cuddling bear) and been asleep for nearly an hour so far.

Last night she woke at 3am (as predicted ) again and I brought her in to us as we had to rescue a drunken friend and her dog (don't ask) and thought it might freak her out a bit if she wandered.

So fingers crossed - things are looking up!

So Tamdin - bed might work for you too... Am like you and Amber, ideally would love 12 hrs but 1 or 2 quick wakings a night is good for me at the mo.

Ginger - CM situation seems awful. Are you looking at state nurseries because near me I found they were much happier, more professional, more qualified staff... much much better? (I had a cm cancel on me at last minute too, but had mum to step in and then gave up work anyway).

massive - hope your night was ok. Its all learning I think.

meg - I like Fugazi too!

ginger would 2nd what mummymagic said about nurseries. ime state/gov seem to be 'better'. I know you'd normally think you get what you pay for in life but bizarrely nurseries seem to buck the trend. Having worked in one of the most expensive chains of nurseries going I know a lot of the staff I worked with were putting their time in hoping for a state nursery job.

Trust your instincts and as IBS said it doesn't have to be permanent if you're not happy.

x

Meg, I've said it before but your posts are so like mine when DD was that age. We had a similar waking pattern and the early part was a much deaper sleep than the later. Similar now but not as bad generally.

Hi Pantsface, loving that name.

mummymagic, hope the bed worked. Sounds like a good start.

Tam for your improvements. I'm sure he'll get the message soon.

Amber, your nights are looking good to on the whole. Congrats.

Bazza and Tam, thanks so much and thanks offering to look after DD. you never know

Thanks everyone for the support re: childminder situation. What would I do without you guys? You're great. It's been a really tough day or two. Hopefully in a couple of weeks this will all be behind us. I'm not sure we have any state run nurseries here. How would I tell? The list the council gave me doesn't say. I have always been loathed to put her in a nursery because they just felt so institutionalised although I'm begining to see the benefit. At least this woudn't happen. The two I tried on Friday were full tho. That's the trouble now. It's so late in the day that people can't accomodate me.

I hope you're all having good weekends. Take care

hello all,
I haven't been on for a couple of days, so just wanted to say good luck for your nights tonight, fingers crossed! I had to skip the computer for a day or two, had a pants night on thurs, total four hours sleep in 3 diff stretches, DS wouldn't settle at all, finally got him off 4ish and DH snored which woke him again!!! so he ended up sleeping on me. was really weepy yesterday - didn't even have strength to tell off 2 workmen chatting next to their parked van on the pavement which forced me to push the pram into the road - my pet hate - as I know I'd have cried if I'd try to speak!

very glad to say things much better last night, don't know if that's down to things much improved with me and DH, we really talked last night, don't think I'd realised how much the sleep thing was getting me down and coming between us, so we're less stressed together and Ds only woke at 1.30 and 5am last night and settled back in cot both times straight after feed . I've been trying NCSS for a few days too, and have cut solids back just to mornings for now, which I'd started on in the afternoon too, as he loves them so much, but gets bad wind in eve. plus i've cut back on the choc again , so could be one or all of them, we'll see tonight!

so best of luck and hope you all get some good sleeps!

Meg, when is DS 6mo? we're thursday...just wondered if we were same day?

Evening everyone.

Choolie, my DS is a day younger than yours! Glad you are feeling better, I too have had days when I've been really tearful and stressed, though not for a while. Having a supportive DP/DH really does help, I have total and utter admiration for single parents or people like my mum who had 3 kids under 6, when my dad was not very involved at all.

Ginger hope you find a suitable cm soon. I haven't the foggiest idea how one goes about finding state nursery places, should look into it I suppose... I have applied for a part-time job working from home, though would probably get DH to babysit if poss.

Mummymagic/pantsface maybe that's why our babies are such poor sleepers... they were rocking out to loud post-rock in the womb and just never calmed down...

Morning all,

Ginger, I'm sure you know this, but if you run Ofsted searches on nurseries, this will tell you if they are owned by the council.

FWIW, council ones (often called community nurseries) do tend to be better as councils offer better pay, sick leave, holidays and pensions, despite being cheaper for parents. However if you need a long day, you might need to go private (our community nurseries only do 8-5.45, and this is cutting it a bit fine for me, with commuting and all).

Meg - re in utereo rocking out. i"m sure there's something in that. I didn't go on mat leave until 3 days before labour started, and I have a reasonably active job. I blame this for DD's obsession with rocking, bouncing, and the buggy!

Choolie - glad you got a better night in.

Mummymagic - hurrah for DD's self-settling.

Crap night here. DD went to bed a 6.30 cos she was knackered. No surprise then that she was up at 11.30. didn't settle for a decent stretch after that. we seems to be alternating good and bad nights at the moment. Not complaining as it could obviously be worse, but it's so weird how what works one night is completely useless the next!