Sleep is for the weak part four, we're officially hardcore.

[gingerninja]

Yes ladies we've got a shiny new thread to share our woes of chronic sleep deprivation, to hail all that is gloreous when something works and throw our arms in the air when it all goes wrong again.

One bad night doesn't impress us, we're awake more than we sleep cos we is 'ard I tell ya.

Well done Amber! So pleased things are working out for you after all those months of carrying your DS around constantly. See, you were doing the right things after all!

Bagpuss: seems your DH felt those hard MN stares from the pub! Glad you had a better night

Not a great night here, but one slightly longer stretch. Another growth spurt I reckin, as DS just wants to feed ALL the time. DH does try and settle him if I can't put him down, but if I'm on the room it just doesn't work as he just twists round to look at me (even in the dark) and yells. I suppose he should get full marks for knowing who his mummy is

glad of your improved night tam

Ep for yours. blinking growth spurts!!! for the longer stretch tho

EP you're so right - i'm so glad i carried him so much in the early days now. thanks for encouraging me! he's getting pretty heavy now ...

Amber you don't need us any more!!

Tibs and Tam glad for your good nights too.

Bagpuss I should think so too. My DH also spent the night on the sofa after staying up to drink beer and play on his Xbox. So I had the bed to myself for, ooh, half an hour before DS woke and came in with me.

I think there were about 3/4 wakings between midnight and 8am, main problem seems to be scratching his hands and ankles, at one point I was holding both his hands by his sides and pinned his legs down with one of mine to stop him scratching. Anyway I don't feel too bad this morning.

But he has become a total nightmare to settle for naps - fights it, screams, wriggles, scratches, and has to be cuddled to almost sleep then if Im lucky I can put him down without him waking and starting to scream again.

I wonder if at some point putting him to bed will be as easy as laying him down and watching him close his eyes and go to sleep?? Seems impossible that we will ever get to that point, but I suppose it must happen some day...

Thanks for the support ladies - it has now sadly occured to me that even if i crack the sleeping thing again in the next 3 weeks...... there will be a small squeaking thing to keep me awake very shortly..

I am lucky though that DS has nearly always been a good sleeper, and very rarely slept in with us. My Mum keeps suggesting we "lift" him at our bedtime to get rid of the middle of the night weee - but he is soooo fast asleep neither of us can bare to wake him! Any experience? Perhaps I should post on the potty traiining threads?

Has anyone found any good homeopathic remedies for snoring? My DH also has sleep apnoea which drives me INSANE. I did suggest surgery (like removal of head) as his present to me on my birthday !!!

meg, i'm also still cuddling dd to not-quite-but-almost asleep for every little nap. was being dramatic about things the other night and envisaging her as a four-year-old struggling to fit on my lap! but you are right, we will get there.

for your poor lo's scratching.

LOL Growingbagpus. tennis balls sown into the back of a tshirt I've heard, stops them rollng onto their back.

and for everyone (sorry don't have much time as mucho housework to do. of Amber, but very very happy for you.

I'm having a bit of a I'm a terrible mother and rotten wife moment so feeling a bit teary this morning. As you know we've been trying to break the co-sleeping with DD and last night (night 3) she woke an hour an a half after going to bed and was a nightmare to settle screaming to the point of gagging on and off for about 2 hours. She only stopped when I picked her up and cuddled her. I feel so confused because part of me doesn't want to pick her up, just cuddle her in her cot because I do want a resolution on this but, I hate to hear her so distressed and I'm torn thinking that if I just go with it she'll grow out of it. Am I deluding myself? She won't settle for DH either, it has to be me. So, when I do pick her up and she is happy as larry I get really cross because I realise that she just wanted to get up and I've blown it there's no getting her back down at that point. DH wants to help but I feel such a martyr and a total failure. I'm so weary of the constant battles with sleep and I'm fed up with the way sleep deprivation is making me into a monster. I'm so argumentative with my DH and I get frustrated and cross with DD. All this is doing is creating an unhealthy tension and atmosphere which is probably adding to the problem. I'm either blowing my top or apologising for it and I'm fed up of being such a total bitch to a wonderful man and beautiful little girl. I'm worried that at a time when my DD just needs me to be there I'm putting conditions on it. I expect too much and I get disappointed easily. I told DH the other day that sometimes when DD is being really clingy and whiny or screaming and won't settle rather than nurturing her I just want to push her away. He's now concerned that I'm some kind of baby hater. He is a very calm, loving and together person whereas I'm not. I wish I was but short person syndrome and sleep deprivation mean I get wound up easily. I do understand that it's totally unreasonable to get wound up by a baby and if I shout I then spend the rest of the day feeling tortured for doing so.

I'm so sorry to be this miserable, I hope I haven't come across as a psycho. I just need to get it off my chest and I don't really have anyone to turn to. I feel better for writing about it. Thanks for listening

Megs, i DO so need you still, please don't boot me out .. i neeeed you all.

ginger, the very fact you wrote that post shows that you are a loving and caring mother and wife. it's just that this motherhood thing is honestly really tough, and so much harder to keep composure when we're up half the night (or 3/4 of the night as the case may be).
and when are LO's are totally unco-operative and mardy (to use tib's word), it can seem like motherhood is completely unrewarding also. it's so normal to feel like that. it's lucky our LO's can turn on the charm as well or they would have been on ebay long ago.
don't torture yourself love. you are doing wonderfully.

ginger, the very fact you wrote that post shows that you are a loving and caring mother and wife. it's just that this motherhood thing is honestly really tough, and so much harder to keep composure when we're up half the night (or 3/4 of the night as the case may be).
and when are LO's are totally unco-operative and mardy (to use tib's word), it can seem like motherhood is completely unrewarding also. it's so normal to feel like that. it's lucky our LO's can turn on the charm as well or they would have been on ebay long ago.
don't torture yourself love. you are doing wonderfully.

(obviously i wanted to tell ginger twice that she's a great mum)

ginger don't beat yourself up you're having a SDD day which every mother has!
I sooooooooo u derstand where you are coming from as ds is still in our bed and somedays i'm happy with it and other days i feel like i should be tring to get him to sleep in his cot all night. Remeber your dd is only tiny and she taught herself to sleep for her naps so there's every chance she'll do it for her bedtimes too.
I am in the let's just go wit it phase. have decided to co-sleep and enjoy it for now and then think about moving ds into his own bed (ie not cot) when we move house. No matter what you think today you're doing such a good job. if you decide to battle on with what you've been doing the i'm sure she'll eventually get it (and it might not take much longer maybe even just another week as 2 weeks seems to be the 'get it' time frame) or if you decide to co-sleep then you can always try again in a few months time. I know it's unbelievably hard but try and keep it in perspective. it will be ok and she will be sleep on her own all night one day. it's just a case of when. Big hug x

Ginger: sound like our experiences atm. I can get DS asleep by feeidng and cuddling but the moment I try and put him in his cot he yells and DH can't settle him at all. It must be separation anxiety (or sheer bloody-mindedness!).

DON'T feel guilty about getting tired and upset with the continual broken nights. I certainly resent DS's disruption of my sleep, especially in the early hours of the morning when we're struggling to get him to settle. It can seem as if all you are doing is worrying about sleep/naps/feeds and how they all fit together and no time on enjoying spending some time with your LO (and I have the 'luxury' of time out at work).

Can you take your own advice and relax about the sleeping in cot thing for a week or so? Just do whatever it takes to get her to sleep? Of course, if you think it's worth persevering with the sleeping in cot thing go for it - it might be a blip (from reading on here most parenting stuff suffers a blip a few days in).

Take care of yourself and get as much help as you can

Ginger - for the 1st time in 2.6 years, my DH actaully backed me up in disciplining my DS. He has always been the calm nurturing one, when I have felt exactly as you do.

Getting babes (how old is DD?) to sleep alone seems to be one of the hardest things - and although we were v lucky - we went thru a phase where he wouldn't ssettle alone, and screamed for me as soon as I left the room.

We learned to compromise. I knew I'd get no sleep either way -and long term, cuddling him to sleep, or co bedding was simply not an option. I used to have a pillow and sleeping bag outside his room. When he woke the 1st time I'd go in. Check he was cold etc.... then I would settle on the floor outside his room. Each time he cried, I would jsut reassure him, loudly to start and gradually getting quieter. It took 2 weeks - which seemed like an eternity, but suddenyl we got our sleep back.

the hardest bit, imo, is convincing yourself that the long term gain is more than the short term compromise of getting that nights sleep, but having DD in with you...

I hope that didn't seem too opinionated for someone new to the htread.....

just read what i wrote and realised it sounds really awful !!!! - I didn't mean it to sound like I was saying you are wrong for co-bedding. More that I guess, as the others just said - its about going with the flow of what you can do at that time. If you are too tired to do it, there is no point starting a new battle.

don't worry bagpuss we are not the offended kind on here!
we are a bunch of co-sleepers on the whole though

goodness, i've seen mumsnet threads where they really get at each others' throats. i'm glad that we're not like that

it is absolutely pouring iwth rain here. don't know if we're going to make it to the BF group at this rate. doubt whether anyone else will though either.

I was always too worried I'd squash DS to co-sleep.... one of my recurring nightmares when he was tiny was that I'd forgotten to put him back in his cot - and I would wake, searching for him, convinced that i had squashed or smothered him!!

ginger, i'm so sorry you're feeling down my darling wish i could offer the real thing, but virtual hugs coming your way. its so hard to be a nurturer when you need a bit of looking after yourself. would it be possible to get a bit of time off at the weekend and go and do something nice, just for yourself. i know it feels like too much of a hassle soemtimes to arrange and then to summon up the energy, but it is worth it. i feel a bit like EP does, in that when i do go in to work, i get a bit of head space. i know that you're going to be worried about leaving dd when you go back, but maybe it'll be just what you need? i love being at home with dd most of the time, but some days..........
please dont beat yourself up about feeling resentful or being cross, you're doing a really fabulous job and are a fantastic mamma. motherhood is one of the biggest changes you will ever encounter, so go easy on yourself. big hugs and lots of love to you xxxx

Ginger I won't repeat what everyone else has said but I agree with it all. It is sooo hard dealing with a non-sleeper and worrying if you're making the problem worse by co-sleeping, cuddling or whatever. I have the same frets but I think with DS' eczema being such a problem, I just can't tackle the sleep thing right now 'cause he can only settle when I physically stop him scratching.

I really have moments when I feel like I can't go on night after night, but I try to focus on the good things about having him (of which there are many) and accept that not everything is bound to be perfect. Eg I have a friend whose DS is a great sleeper but she only managed to bf for 12 days, she's always saying how envious she is of me bfing and that I make it look so easy. So that is something that I am good at! I think you just have to try not to make the sleep thing the focus of your life. Though I wouldn't be here if I wasn't obsessed by it too!

... and ginger think of all the wonderful things you do for dd in a day, rather than just the moments when you feel frustrated. i'm sure you're giving soooo much love.

xx

Also will it ever stop blardy raining?

tamping it down here too meg
....and i spent ages yesterday watering next doors pots and garden as they're away on hols. wish i hadnt bothered now!

it's finally stopped here

maybe it will for you two soon ...

Thanks for your kind words ladies. Yours too Bagpuss, not offended at all. Tam you're right about the SDD. It's the constant up and down that's so exhausting isn't it. One day things look really hopefull. The next, hopeless. Things look brighter this afternoon (not the weather tho). Thanks again