Sleep is for the weak part four, we're officially hardcore.

[gingerninja]

Yes ladies we've got a shiny new thread to share our woes of chronic sleep deprivation, to hail all that is gloreous when something works and throw our arms in the air when it all goes wrong again.

One bad night doesn't impress us, we're awake more than we sleep cos we is 'ard I tell ya.

meg poor lo. is he in discomfort with it? if not, i'd try not to worry, easier said than done i know.
have you tried massaging his calves. i know it sounds strange and never tried it myself, never needed it as dd known as the poo-cano here, like a volcano but.... yeah, you get it but when i was training, my lecturer mentioned it. apply gentle pressure with palm of hand, sweeping upwards (towards the heart)....can use thumb in the same direction in the middle of the calve (fattest part iyswim?)
if he takes a bottle, could try a little apple juice diluted in cooled boiled water. my bfg support worker says apple better then orange juice apparently.
dont know of any over the counter stuff....

oh... and amber sorry, forgot to give a big thumbs up for your continued good nights and lie in!!!! way to go imp!! could you get him to send some vibes dds way

Tibs how weird that you mention the calves thing. dh used to do that to ds when he was constipated and it alwsy worked. we didn't know it was a proper technique just thought it was a funny coincidence!!

also ds still in cot in our room but will def be getting him a double bed for his new room as he'll be nearly 2 when we move.

Morning all. Well, it got worse before it got better. Despite massaging a delicious coating of Bonjela into his gums before bedtime, he managed to wake up a total of 8 times between 7.45 and 10.30pm. What a marathon. Wasn?t even hungry, despite still being on hunger strike. Dream fed him at 1am, then he woke at 3.30 and wouldn?t go back to sleep without a feed. So it was co-sleepingsville from then on until 7, which suited me quite well as I was pooped.

One amazing thing ? he?s now been asleep for an hour ? his first nap of longer than 45 mins since this teething malarkey began. I?m quietly optimistic that I may get my 2-hour morning me-time back!

Tibs ? so very for your crappy craps night. In answer to your question, my ds is still in our room. I?m desperate for a comfy rocking chair for his room when we finally move him there, as I imagine I?ll be spending a lot of time in there at nights!

Tam and Meg ? likewise for your rubbish nights.

Amber ? for your good?un.

Dressed Up ? congrats and thanks for the encouragement. I?m telling myself there is hope yet!

EP ? for the bad and for the good 3-hour stretch you had.

Ginger ? you poor love. I wish I could help you?just send you warm healing vibes instead. Wonder if ginger-flavoured G&B might be the ticket as ginger is a superfood??! Maybe we did pass in the street at Cov Gdn? It was some years ago now that I worked there?2000/2001, I believe? I only did it for a few weeks; though come to think of it I had a holiday job at Thornton?s when I was a student. Ohhh I love Cov Gdn. Might pop down there one day with DS before I go back to work.

By the way I?m with you on tipping, Ginger; although I tip generously, I think it?s disgraceful that it gives employers carte blanche to pay as badly as they?d like. I really felt that when I went to the US as well ? all the more so than here (though I hear some restaurants don?t pay their staff at all ? outrageous! ).

A French friend of mine reckons babies in France sleep through the night from about 3-4 months old . That can?t be right. I think I?ll ask her in more detail what she means by that. If there?s any secret which they know that we don?t I?d love to know, for baby no. 2. Though I have heard that bf?ing and co-sleeping families are more likely to have trouble in this area; maybe that?s the difference. If so I?m happy I?ve done things this way.

Tibs ? like your massage tip, might try that myself to see if that frees the bum and breaks the hunger strike. What did you train as?

Re nice things, we have a baby music group today ? lots of singing and playtime. And cake.

Oh-hoh, I hear the sound of a waking baby. Got to go!

Amber, re your ayurvedic meds, I'm intrigued as I've never tried ayurveda before. How does it all work? i.e what's the principle behind it?

Tam, a secret masseur hiding in the wings methinks,...lucky you!!!!! although having said that, my poor dp gets less massages than everyone!! double bed for ds sounds like a fab idea, you'll probably end up falling asleep with him, but at least you have the option of getting out and going to your own bed

MrsTh what a night.... hope los teeth come through soon. it does make it easier to bear if you get a couple of hours nap time tho, i agree. gives us poor tired mammas time for a recharge.

ayurveda works onthe principle of three personality types or 'doshas'. When the doshas get out of balance, then illness results. When they are in balance, there is harmony in the mind, body and soul. this is super basic summary! the idea is that food is medicine, so mostly based in food and herbs to counteract imbalances as well as lifestyle changes as well. foods have particular tastes which can effect physiological changes.
anyway, the stuff i had for congestion was like an ayurvedic vicks! not specifically for a particular dosha, but a combo of knock your socks off kind of herbs/oils.

tibs - i've done massage training, and i get dp to massage me more than i massage him - seems to be common for massage therapists.

its my last BF peer supporter class today. kinda sad actually. oh well, will have to spend more time helping people instead

we are listening to favourite action rhymes to try to keep LO awake until next nap - he is tired after super sleep effort last night.

ps TH. i'm sure some people would claim babies here sleep from 3-4 months through the night. depends on the baby. also depends on your definition of 'sleep through the night'. 5 hours? or 12?

amber, i know, our poor dps my dps' friend has had more massages from me lately
have almost finished my blurb for the blog. sorry its taking so long. will email it to you asap xx

Hi all

Mrs. TH - argh! hope the teething is over soon.

Amber - for you and DS? Pleeeeeeaseee let us in on the secret!

Ginger - to hear you're still under the weather. Hope you're firing on all cylinders soon.

EP - sorry for your bad night, but pleased to hear that the evenings are going a bit smoother. it's great to be able to grab an hour or two to yourself before bed. (we get this about one night in two at the moment .)

Meg - for your repeated wakings.

tibs - we have a room for dd with a cot set up in it, but like ginger I have been unable to face the constant schlepping back and forth between rooms, particularly as I don't fall back to sleep easily. But now i think about it, perhaps we do disturb her, on occasion. I might think about dd starting the night in her room, and then maybe coming into the bedside cot after midnight. But might this confuse her? oh, it's all so tricky....

Bags, that's exactly what we did with DD. She always started the night in her room and came in with us when we went to bed.

Anyway after a 1hr15min nap this morning shes back down for another. Must do my ironing.

You lot sound like a bunch of hippies. I'd love to be a hippy but I'm too conventional. Loving the sound of all these massages tho. I love being squished really hard with a massage don't like the light fingered tickle. Especially my feet. I'm marry anyone that gave me a good foot massage. (Actually I'd probably marry anyone that would dare to go near my feet.)

LO just gone down for third nap of the day, having only taken 40 mins at 12 again... at least these last two were without crying! Have decided that unless he takes a long lunchtime nap (which doesn't happen v often) I will give him a 4th nap and put him to bed a little later... better than battling an overtired baby, and he will have one more feed in the day too, so maybe will sleep a bit longer when he does go down [desperate to believe in anything emoticon]

MMmm... I LOVE a good massage but it's been a while since we had the time or energy!

Meg - have you tried resettling your ds at the lunchtime nap?

Here, dd always, always wakes after 30mins. I've never been able to persuade her to have more in the morning or afternoon, but when she wakes at lunchtime I resettle her with a cuddle and a dummy, and she pretty much always goes on to have a further 1-2 hours.

We have this half-hour waking thing in the evening as well - every night. Anyone else? Any ideas what that's all about?

no probs tibs with the blurb - it's not super urgent at all!

don't know what our secret is. wish i could tell you.

someone bring me some chocolate!

Bags... I do try to resettle DS when he stirs at the lunchtime nap, and sometimes (just sometimes) it will work... usually for another 5/10/15 minutes, though on one or two glorious occasions he has gone for another hour.

However, most of the time it doesn't work at all as he wakes up fully and wants to play... then there's no settling him til the next nap is due.

Well so far every nap today has taken him 30 mins to settle, but thankfully they've all been good length naps - 45mins - 1.5 hrs. Now, however, it's been 45 mins of me trying to settle him to sleep with no avail (somehow saying 'for goodness' sake, it's only sleeptime!' between gritted teeth doesn't do the trick. Dunno why.) DH has taken over, bless him. I fear a repeat of yesterday evening.

Amber. My chocolate buddy. Have you tried Montezuma's chocolate? It's like, totally the real deal, man. Out of this world. Proper stuff. Think I need some right now!!

Better sort out dinner sharpish as I think it's going to be another long and tiresome night, so nighty-tight everyone, and blessings all round for an easier night than you are expecting.

Meg, we used to have exactly the same problem. She was obviously still tired but would scream blue murder. It has got better although today was a bit of an exception and she did wake early and wouldn't resettle so even tho she was mega grumpy I just got her up and took her for a walk. She seems happier outside and somehow it makes all those tears less painful for me too. What is your routine and I'll try and remember what mine was for that age, I'll have to search the sifw archive! (remind me what age your lo is again, 16? we seem to have been on this thread years eh?)

Can I join you all? DD is now 1 and still wakes twice in night for a bf. ( know that's not totally hardcore but 12 months of broken sleep FEELS hardcore!) I also have to bf her to get to sleep in the evening. So have made a rod for own back really.

I am so fed up with the 2 wakings and lack of sleep that am going down the cc this weekend. I have tried shushing her, giving water, dh going in, sitting by cot etc. Have tried these consistently tool. Nothing works. She only wants me, well my boob actually. I think she thinks she can't sleep without it.

Don't really want to do cc but getting desperate so am biting the bullet. Wish me luck - will let you know if it works!

lyndyloo. totally symathise. ds is 18months next week and still wakes twice a night. cannot do cc but understnd why others do and why you feel you want to try. I stopped bf ds at 8months so can't really remember the weaning process. have you posted on bf threads for any ideas how to cut the bf at night other than cc?

hey lyndyloo, 12 months of broken sleep IS totally hardcore. respecT! can understand going the CC route too. i've had friends that have done it around 9 months, and although they said it was horrible, they said everyone was happier once they had loads of sleep.
i know that millpond recommends reducing the breastfeed by a minute every few days or something in order to achieve night weaning. don't know if it would work in your case. otherwise, i'm out of ideas - sorry!

Ginger my LO is 20 weeks. Today was a pretty typical day for him:

Awake 7
Sleep 9.30-10 (I tried to get him down at 9 but he screamed for half an hour before finally conking out)
Sleep 11.45-12.30
Sleep 2.30-3.15
Sleep 5-5.30
Bath & bedtime starts 7.15, asleep by 7.45

Sometimes he wakes at 8am, sometimes he takes a longer lunchtime nap, so then the 3rd nap might go back to 3.30-4ish which is normally OK to get him through to an earlier bedtime of 6.30-7ish.

morning ladies and welcome lyndyloo my dd is 11 mths soon and atm bfing 2 sometimes 3 times a night atm a real turnaround from the other week when we had a couple of all nighters (sleep that is, not feeding)
i'm a big believer of self weaning and los determining how much food/sleep they need, but i seriously think dd is wrong atm
think tibsy might be about to throw her hippie hat off and grab the strict routine one .........well maybe not that drastic....

am feeling a bit fed up this a.m, i'm trying to remain positive, but the last coupla nights are taking their toll. last night
bed at 7.30pm
fed at 11.45pm
fed at 3am
fed at 5am and up for the bloody day too
sorry for the rant, i hope there were some good nights being had out there x