Going to start controlled crying tonight. Please hold my hand!

[Londonmamabychance]

Going to start CC with DS 10 months tonight. He's been a terrible sleeper since birth. First colicky, then just waking +8 times a night, will only go back to sleep breastfeeding. I've tried co-sleeping but he just wakes up even more and wants to BF all night long and I end up exhausted. Going back to work in two weeks so need to sort this out. Am at the brink of breakdown from exhaustion. Have got him down to falling asleep on his own (always crying for about 5-10 mins then out) but then he wakes after around 3 hours and will scream until he gets picked up and breastfed back to sleep. Have tried letting him cry for first wake up and it normally takes +1 hour before he gives up. He's in our room so I can see him while he cries.

My plan is tonight put him in his own room and do the controlled crying within where you increase the periods between coming in and reasussinf with 2 mins. Also will offer him bottle the first time he wakes up to ensure he's not hungry but will avoid boob association.

I'm so scared of cracking as I'm so tired and can't beatbox hearing him cry. But feel I've tried everything!

To note, this is my second child. The first one (now 3) was breastfed to sleep until she was 16 months, she just fed to sleep and then fell asleep and slept through the night from around 8 months. If she woke up I'd BF her back to sleep. Just to say I don't know what's up with this kid, why he's so different from his sister.

Any advice or support very welcome!

Good luck OP, you’re doing the right thing!

Good luck OP - we did a form of controlled crying both times with instant sleeping through from night 3 onwards. Both DC were attended to - we went back after 1 min crying, then 2 mins, then 3 mins etc.

1 hour of crying night one, then 20 mins night 2 then sleeping through.

It's not something I'd consider before about 9 months, but good sleep saved our sanity.

To be honest, I think people that aren't willing to try a gentle form like we did and putting up with terrible sleep (ie up more than twice in the night - I can see how 1-2 times might be tolerable) are martyring themselves a bit.

Mrscog the word 'martyr' was leaping unbidden into my mind too at some of the pp.

My 6.5 month old rarely gives me longer than a 3 hour stretch (which I appreciate is better than many on here). Before anyone tells me he's too young, don't worry, I'm just putting up with it for now and working on good sleep habits like getting him down awake etc. But if he's still like this at 10 months, I'll definitely be open to a bit of tough love for all our sakes.

The thing that is a shame is that these sleeping patterns are normal in babies. 8-10 months is by far the toughest but what they are doing is normal, saying they don’t NEED night feeds - it depends on your definition of need. Yes they SURVIVE without them but they are programmed to wake frequently in those days, they’re still growing a lot.

By no means am I being a martyr - no, controlled crying isn’t for me but I’m not the one doing it. The problem is we have such a skewed view of what is and isn’t normal.

I do understand how sleep deprivation can take it’s toll

Crazycatlady I think the problem can be for some people is that they see newborn style patterns of waking as 'normal' as their baby is still a baby. From my experience, my DS2 who I demand fed until 22 months - including through the night, the whole thing actually helped me cement bad sleep habits.

Is it normal for a 9/10 month old to wake once or twice for a feed - yes I'm sure it is for some. However, DS2 just ramped up and up the wakings and got harder to settle. Because of the 'gentle 'it's normal' brigade I then was getting up to feed him 3-4 times a night until I broke at 22 months. I genuinely think the approach let him down as he just wasn't getting enough sleep and I regret not sleep training him around 1 like I did with DS1.

DS1 I was harder with and did our gentle form of CC at about 10 months. I think that a lot of babies - especially as they approach 1 are ready to be 'taught' how to sleep through the night.

The other thing is that lots of people on MN treat all 'crying based sleep training' as equal, where in actual fact there is a gaping void between leaving a newborn to cry it out (despicable) and leaving a rising 1 year old to cry whilst popping in every minute or two saying 'I'm still here, but it's bedtime, night night'.

@crazycatlady5 consistently waking 4+ times a night between 8-10 months is not normal. Sleep deteriorating during regressions, teething etc are normal at that age (as I know too well), not consistent poor sleep. Just as an anecdotal example - there are 10 in our NCT group, 2 of us have used any form of sleep training and 7 babies are ebf. At 12 months, there are just 2 out of 10 consistently waking more than once at night, 1 waking once a night (mine) and the rest sleep through when well.

What’s also normal in the western world is for women to go back to work at this stage. There are numerous threads about them feeling sidelined in the workplace post children and not able to progress in their career - I can only imagine how much worse this is for those who can’t function properly due to sleep deprivation. In my personal case, this level of sleep deprivation could result in an error at work that has the potential to kill someone else’s child - having her sleeping poorly once I’m back at work was never an option, I always knew I would have to resort to sleep training at 1 year if she wasn’t sleeping well of her own accord.

As you already know, I sleep trained much earlier than I ever would have imagined because my daughter resisted sleep with all her strength and she was suffering as a result. Like many other pps, she turned into a much happier baby once sleeping well. I also only fed her at timed intervals after sleep training - I was petrified she was going to lose weight as she was feeding 1-2 hourly before. To my absolute surprise, she started gaining so much faster as she learned to feed properly rather than snacking and dozing on the breast all day.

It’s not for everyone and only we are best placed to know what is best for our child.

Well said mrscog! I think it does indeed happen that following the AP approach of feeding through the night can set you off down a slippery slope that ends with you still BFing a 2-3 year old at night. If you're happy with that and it suits your family then all well and good. For me it's not an option.

The leading expert on any baby is its own mother - it's for her to decide when and how to take action taking in the baby's personality, needs and her family and work situation.

I'm 3 nights in to night weaning my 10 mo and she's actually adapted to it really well, better than I could have imagined. Yes she's pissed off that I've unilaterally changed the rules but I've seen that she really does not need those night feeds. She woke up this morning and happily played with me for 45 min in bed before I came downstairs and BF her with my exploding boobs. I actually think I've done her a favour - I've spent 4 months weaning her and she barely eats anything as she's too distracted and gets most of her calories at night. After the first night with no milk she ate much better.

For those all advocating the long term AP approach, yes it's true that a baby's software is programmed for them to wake and seek comfort during the night so they don't get eaten by wolves. But society has moved on. We no longer live in communities where a whole village raises a child and the mother has the extended family to help her. Most of us are trying to juggle family and work life with little to no help from family and friends.

OP let us know how you're getting on - sorry to thread is veering off as is usual on MN when the issue comes up!

I'm not against cc but I think it's wrong to say kids don't need night feeds. My ds was known to need milk in night at gone 2 when having a growth spurt. Went on for a couple of weeks then back to sleeping through. Not a problem he literally needed a bottle filling and passing and drank it himself. He definitely needed it though!

Mrscog you’re spot on - many people see CC as the worst thing ever regardless of circumstance.* Similarly, many people don’t see anything wrong with it regardless of circumstance.*

Hence why we will never tell my MIL that we eventually did CC with our one year old as she has been pushing us to do it since he was born “Told you so” would spring to mind.**

I truly believe there comes a time when babies/toddlers are ready.* For us that was when he was suffering during the day due to a lack of good quality sleep.*

Yes it’s ‘normal’ for everyone - adults and babies alike - to wake multiple times a night, but it’s also normal for us to go back to sleep quickly.* When older babies and toddlers are waking every two hours crying/to feed/to need comforted etc that has a big negative impact on them.*

Do I wish I never had to sleep train? Of course.* But I don’t regret it as the change in DS is amazing.* He’s so much happier and I can function as a mother so much better!

How annoying is it when MN buggers up your text though...

Bless you. I went through this with our first, it’s really very hard, it does work though. Having said that, I didn’t have it in me to do it with our second.

Good luck.

I have a 7yo and 1yo, and I started putting them both in a routine at 6 weeks old, by 8 weeks they slept through 10 hours and fed & napped at the same times each day. I have always had compliments on how relaxed and content they are. They are always smiling and waving at people and love to play and interact with others. Both are very, very happy kids. I don’t, and will never, regret being strict with the routine and using the cry it out technique. It’s what worked for me and my family. They are loved, they are fed, they are warm and most importantly they have a mum who is rested enough to properly look after them. That is what is important. A healthy and happy mum will make a healthy and happy baby.

proseccomamam Nothing wrong with your advice, but please think carefully about using this phrase - ' A healthy and happy mum will make a healthy and happy baby.' For Mums with PND it can be heart wrenching to read and although I know if came from a good place is not true. I couldn't have been less happy or healthy in my 2nd pregnancy - I had antenatal depression. However my elder child was still happy and healthy during this time.

I agree with you though about some parents need to be properly rested themselves to be the type of parent they want to be.

How did the 2nd night go OP?

How are you getting on OP?

How did last night go op? I posted similar about 5 years and ago. I got so many posters telling me how cruel I was. My child was miserable from lack of sleep as was I. Not only was she waking constantly at night she was barely napping at all during the day. Until some one else has walked in your shoes they have no right to comment. She cried for the first few nights on and off but DH settled her rather than me. After a few nights it clicked. She suddenly started having proper naps during the day. She was so much happier as was I. It was the best thing I ever did.

keep us updated OP id love to know how you are getting on. i might be in your position in a few months as 6mo continues to resist sleeping without me!

Hello all and sorry for going off the radar a bit! Have developed an nasty cold and pretty much been in bed all day yesterday and today (with intermittent playing on floor and feeeding/nappy changing etc) ugh just what I needed!

The good news is that the sleep training seems to be working! It's now been three nights and he's definitely getting better. On Wednesday night he woke around 11am and cried for about 10 kinsmen then went back to sleep until 5am!! Last night was not quite as amazing - fell asleep at 8, woke around 1 and then again at 4 and then up for the day at 5.30 - but although he did wake up more last night, he also was settled much quicker, all it took was for me to stroke his back firmly and hum a bit of his favourite lullaby for around 2 mins and he went back to sleep!

So chuffed. The one thing that kills me though is that he wakes up so early, he used to be able to sleep till 7.30am, not sure if it's because he's getting better quality sleep through the night, or because the clocks have gone back?

Oops 10 minutes not 10 kinsmen! These autocorrects really are weird.

Also, should say have been doing it with naps too. He is currently having his lunch nap, put him down and sang for him/caressed his back for around 3mins then left the room, let him cry for 3-4 mins then went back in and repeated it, left before he was fully asleep and didn't hear anymore crying, went in to check after 5 mins and he's soundly asleep.

Going in the right direction Londonmama, which is great news.

DS was a horribly early riser, but I could cope if he slept through.

Hang in there.

glad to hear it @Londonmamabychance what helped you to make the transition from bf to cot ultimately?

Good news!

We also have an early riser on our hands but he sleeps 7-6ish most days. The the weekend I can get a lie in til 8 if I feed him at 530, so worth it!