Why won't he stay asleep??

[LillyBugg]

This is driving me to despair. DS is 4.5 months and wakes so frequently. During the day he only ever sleeps about 20 mins, if I'm lucky, before waking. At night it's every 40-60 minutes. He is so agitated all the time. It's like he never relaxes. He doesn't sleep on his back, he just flails around and ends up in a right state so he sleeps on his side. Swaddling doesn't work. He has a dummy, it falls out all the time and he wakes. White noise doesn't work. Sling does work but I can't have him on me all the time and obviously this doesn't work at night. Please don't tell me it's the four month regression as he has always been like this, you have to be sleeping to then regress from it. The longest he's ever slept is about 3 hours and that was overnight. He hasn't done that for weeks and weeks now. Please help, I feel like I'm being tortured.

Do you cosleep for some naps too? Even one decent one a day might help with the overtiredness and for you to rest.

Stick in. You are doing your best. All you can do. It feels hideous when you’re in the storm I know x

He'll most likely grow out of reflux by six months anyway so I wouldn't torture yourself with that. My ds was the same as this and I just had to grin and bear it.. it will improve. Just keep co-sleeping

Sadly can't co sleep for naps as I have a toddler as well. It feels like I just keep saying 'no can't do that, no that doesn't work...' I don't think I'm being purposefully negative. Maybe I just really have tried it all.

I think the only way to know if he has silent reflux is to try the meds and see if they help. That's the approach the gp (eventually) took with my dd.

My toddler still has a lunchtime nap so I manage one nap a day with DS, more if DD is at nursery. I dread the day she stops napping!!

DS dropped his nap about 7 weeks ago now. I won't lie. It's a killer. But I'm lucky he napped for so long, he is 3!

Hi LillyBug, just wanted to say that I completely feel your pain. I also have a 4 month old DS who for the love of god, will also not sleep and never has been a good sleeper! In fact I could have written this post myself.
My DS has never slept longer than 3 hours at night (which is a rarity in itself, usually it's every 45-1 hr), he is also EBF, will only nap for 30 mins in the cot (I can set my watch by him), but will sleep on me for 2 hours if I keep getting up and rocking him. The sling is my best go to at the min, although my DS is 16.5Ibs, so not that easy and doesn't give me a lot of rest!
GP has said DS has silent reflux, I've tried ranitidine and gaviscon but that seems to make him worse..he tends to vomit more and be more agitated but may be worth a visit to GP, you may have more joy with meds!
Just wanted you to know that you are not alone at all and it really is tough going. There have been times when I thought I might lose my mind with the constant sleep deprivation! Let's hope it gets better for us soon..who knows in a few months we may have the best sleepers ever 😂

LillyBugg- I feel your pain! My DS was an absolute nightmare for first first 12 weeks. Screamed constantly, wouldn't be put down at all. He literally lived on me in the sling, if there was a safe way to sleep like that I bloody would of. He also went through an absolutely brutal phase of being up hourly like clockwork and would only feed back to sleep. It felt like utter torture. He too wouldn't nap in the day either. He's also a bottle refuser aswell so I literally never- and still don't get a break ever. He also was one of these crazy babies who hated his pram, screamed the whole time and the same in the car. We went on a 45 min car journey and he cried so hard when we got there he was drenched in sweat and bright red. I too have also called him some lovely pet names in the depth of sleep deprivation :(.

He's almost 5 months now and in the last few weeks day time naps have gotten so much better and he's not waking hourly anymore. Things only got better when I cut dairy from the diet as we suspect he has CMPA. Any reason to suspect something might be bothering his tummy? Is he windy or squirming? What is he like when he wakes from the short naps?

Thank you for the last two replies, it honestly makes me feel so much better when other people say it's happening to them as well. It can be so isolating when other people with babies the same age just don't get it as their babies sleep through. I wouldn't wish it on anyone but knowing I'm not alone helps.

He isn't overly windy, not more than I would expect. When he wakes from his short nap he is crying. I suspect because he's tired rather than anything else. Sometimes I feed him (again) and he goes back to sleep.

I have to say we have had a few longer day time naps in the last few weeks. But I would say maybe one every 3-4 days. And last night he slept 10pm-2am for the first time ever. Literally ever. So maybe it is getting better but just really slowly.

Julia did the GP help straight away? I'm worried I will just be told 'he's a baby' and shown the door. How do you get meds into an EBF baby?

My DS was taking ranitidine for reflux. It's generally what they give after you've tried gavison. Gavison never worked, it's too much liquid and had to be spooned it or used a syringe. DS just spat it out no matter what I did. Next we tried the ranitidine, it's a much smaller dose. To start with was only 0.4mls so much easier to give to him through syringe. It's also a mintyish flavour like gripe water I found so DS had no issues taking it. With BF babies you either have to just give directly through what ever means or mixing with breast milk.

When he wakes from the short nap have you left him to have a grumble for any period of time. One day when I was at my wits end I just left DS because I just couldn't take it anymore and to my surprise after about 7-8 mins of crying he went back to sleep. I then started putting him down awake and again he protested for hardly anytime. I just was always going straight to him at the first wimper. It's not everyone's cup of tea and leaving baby to cry is a personal choice but he spent so much of the first 12 weeks crying no matter what I did I could more than handle the 10 mins when I know he's tired and will go to sleep. I went with it and now he can handle 2hours awake time, I put him down 15 mins before and he will self settle with 5 mins on off crying on a bad day. Also because he cans elf settle at the start when he woke between cycles he started to take himself back to sleep. I learned this baby stalking on my video monitor as we do . It was horrible to hear him cry but I know he's much happier when well rested during the day. Do you always feed to sleep?

That's amazing! Sometimes they just surprise you. DS Still doesn't do long stretches at night, but that's just something I'll have to wait for I guess 😭. But yes, it's awful when you meet other mums who's babies are sleeping through and they love telling you. When we went for a weight check I got chatting to another mum and mentioned about how I was barely functioning on lack of sleep. She proceeded to tell her DS has slept through for the last week and it was amazing. I was like do you hate me or something????

I just think that people who aren't living it don't understand. How can they understand what it feels like when you've not had more than 3 hours sleep (if you're lucky) in a row for months and months on end?! I'm also surprised at my own ability to cope to be honest.
I haven't left him too long when he wakes, maybe I should try. Like you say there is so much crying that it probably wouldn't make any difference anyway. I don't always feed to sleep, I either feed or rock or sling to sleep. But I always feed back to sleep if that makes sense? I find it hard to settle him when he wakes and shoving a boob in his mouth is an easy option. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. Sometimes I give up and get him up (day time) as I just can't take the wriggling and jolting and squirming around on me. He falls asleep and then wakes up again and it's infuriating!

Sounds like you've done everything. I'd now concentrate on making your life as bearable as possible around the sleep patterns. Its bad enough being exhausted, without the exasperation too. I've been there (and have no answers), and then suddenly it gets better.

I'm glad it helps LillyBug knowing that you are not alone..and you certainly aren't. I went to a baby sensory class this week, I met a woman who's baby sleeps 13 hours through the night and she was moaning that she can't keep him awake in the day! I wanted to poke her eyes out 😂.

As for meds, it's as FortheloveofJames says. The ranitidine is much easier to give, smaller dose and I think it is more palatable for them. The gaviscon is hard to give, unless in a bottle, although my DS is good at taking off a spoon. TBH I haven't been too consistent in giving it, as I felt it made him worse..but I'm thinking about revisiting it again. The GP was very sympathetic...although I did burst into a flood of tears! I would explain exactly how you have in you OP and also stress the terrible discomfort your LO is in and that neither of you are getting any rest with it.

I also either feed or rock to sleep and as FortheloveofJames says maybe it's worth leaving DS to moan for a little while. Like you LillyBug I also feed back to sleep at night as it's easier to shove a boob in his face than get up and rock. Although I have started to wonder whether he wakes not out of hunger but rather habit and uses me as a dummy to get back to sleep. Might try just rocking tonight..although deep down I know I won't have the bloody energy!

I also read something about diet, I know since DS was born I've had a sweet tooth and have started eating more chocolate and drinking tea. Apparently this can make some baby's fussy..so I'll try cutting that out. Might be just worth thinking if it can be anything in your diet?

That's great that you had a longer stretch last night...small victories and all that! Good luck tonight.. xx

First of all, hats off to you for managing the sleep deprivation for so long. My baby (10 weeks) is also like this & like you I also have a non-napping toddler. It's absolutely horrid, isn't it?

I guess it could be about trying to identify which sleep association is the strongest factor here. It may be suckling given their use of the dummy and feed back to sleep, which is stopping your baby from joining up their sleep cycles. My eldest was like this at 6 months and as soon as we ditched the dummy, she slept through! All depends on how comfortable you are to let them cry....

My 10 week baby doesn't use the dummy, but is otherwise identical in every other aspect to your baby. I think she's too young for me to let cry for a bit....so don't think this is an option for me at the moment.

Sorry you are going through this. My first Ds is now 18 but was a crap sleeper.
He was exactly as you secribe your baby,and up to about 20 months
I remember being with a group of new Mums & babies, and being told by the nurse. ' Now is everyone's baby feeding 4 hourly and settling well until the next feed and then sleeping for a long stretch overnight? 👎 No, not my baby .

At about 14months, as I was pregnant with my second, we booked in to a mum and baby support stay, to access support with his sleeping when he was around 9 months. It was horrible, we tried leaving him to settle - but then he just could not sleep all night. A week later we discovered he had developed ear infection- very bad.

At the clinic we were told he was in the top 5per cent of poor sleeper 😜 Something for your little one to aspire to! Not! But seriously what can you do? You can only try to leave him for a few mins to settle and keep calmly psyching him to relax. But with babies, just when you try to create a better pattern, something else often starts up- another challenge such as illness or growth spurt where they have to suck more to stimulate & increase milk production

I do think all advice above is good, for settling and seeing Dr Maybe your baby could do with seeing GP just incase there is anything at all that could be an issue that you can treat. Otherwise dont lose heart, baby will grow out of it in time - meantime, keep going. Your baby thinks you are amazing for everything you do🌸👏Im sure he will be a little honey and reward you with lots of specialcuddles and chatter soon enough as he grows!

Yup. Us too.
Could have written your post.
14 weeks of sleep deprivation and my face looks like something you'd find at the bottom of the sea.
I feel your pain.

Oh rhubarb the thought of ditching the dummy 😱 My older DS still has his for sleep and I'm too scared to remove it because I just can't manage on even less sleep than I have now. He started sleeping through at 8 months and that's when he learned to put his own dummy back in.

Hadn't really thought about my diet. Wouldn't he be really quite sick all the time if it was a dairy issue though?

I'm glad we can all share in the pain together!

LillyBugg - agree with you there. Removing the dummy is not for the faint hearted, but in our case we had to as it was making her sleep worse. It all changed when we went on holiday when she was 8 months....she was so unsettled that we gave her the dummy and she slept through! I think she must have figured out to find dummy?? I can't quite remember as it was a while ago. We then had the problem of how-do-we-stop-the-dummy when she was a toddler? Didn't have the heart to remove it or rather couldn't contemplate its removal as she slept so well. In the end we did nothing and she naturally stopped using the dummy. Her teeth bore holes in the dummy making it ineffective and she lost interest. No tears, no pain. So doing nothing can work sometimes!

Cutting out dairy is an interesting suggestion...I may have to try.

I had heard about snipping holes in the dummy to make it lose its appeal. That's my plan for removing it from him but only when DS2 is sleeping better!! I'm not overly worried, he literally only has it for sleeping, it's not like he's wandering around with it in his mouth. At bed time I also will not have a conversation with him when he has it in his mouth. He's quickly learned it needs to be removed.

In other news, DS2 just did a 1.5 hour nap without needing to be settled 😮😮😮

Amazing news LillyBugg about the nap!🎉🎉 What did you do?!

Checked repeatedly that he was breathing! Had a quick bath. I find when he's sleeping I do everything quickly for fear of him waking up. I dream of the day I can pretty much guarantee a longer nap and take my time! I also played duplo with the older one as he had been asking all morning. We've had a half hour since then and he's just fallen asleep again. Toddler is due home any second though so I need to do a cot transfer or all hell will break loose.

Oh fantastic news LillyBug! (Secretly well jel! 😂). But keep going and keep your chin up..you may just be turning the corner!!

Sorry LillyBug, Iooking back I realise the way I phrased the question was a bit unclear. You must think I'm really nosey. What I meant to ask was how did you get your baby to fall asleep and stay asleep for so long and not necessarily enquire as to how you spent your baby-free time.🙈 I'm so pleased that you had a bit of a break - hopefully this could be the beginning of a good sleep trend.🤞

My second DS is like this (now 8 months old) and it was such a shock as my first slept through 12 hours and has been a great sleeper all his life. Second DS wakes every half hour at the moment... but sometimes we feed him, he falls asleep and then he's up 2 minutes later I think maybe he is more sensitive to milk, maybe lower pain threshold with teething, maybe there's no reason! It's hard though