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Original poster

Sleep training when to go in to baby?

35 replies

Jemimapuddingduck · 15/12/2016 19:51

I've just started sleep training with my 4 month old, I'm trying to do the pick up put down method but confused about when I should go in to her.

She's currently awake and talking grizzle shouting to herself, I went in 10 minutes ago when she first woke up and she was happy and smiling in her cot so not upset or really crying, I've come back out and can hear her doing the same.

Do u just leave her as she's happy, fed and clean nappy and just wants company or shall I go in to her and stay with her until she's asleep?

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FATEdestiny · 15/12/2016 21:17

What constitutes a baby crying is impossibly subjective to pass comment on online.

talking
grizzle
shouting

All three of these are things I would call "crying" in a non-verbal baby (so under 12 months). So I would aim to be there to reassure baby as soon as I could be.

At 14 months old I may ignore quiet babbling. At 4 months I would not ignore any noise for my attention.

At 24 months I might ignore a scream in rage/frustration/anger for a bit. At 14 months I wouldnt and at 4 months I would stop everything and go running to such a cry.

It's all relative to age. 4 months is too young to be left crying because any noise is an attempt to tell you she needs you.

Lugeeta · 15/12/2016 21:21

I don't think 4 months old are really amenable to sleep training. I would just cuddle her to sleep at this age x

FuckingHellz · 15/12/2016 21:29

They grow up so fast though! I had a nap the other day with my dd and realised how much I'd missed napping with her (as she either naps in the car or the little bugger refuses a nap completely!)

Sorry, I just had to say this as it honestly goes so fast, I'd make the most of the cuddles and not stress about teaching her to fall asleep on her own.

FraterculaArctica · 15/12/2016 21:33

Genuine question - sleep training a 4 mo seems really odd to me because once they're asleep you have to go in and stay with them anyway if you want to follow the guidelines of all sleeps in same room as you till 6 months?

fruityb · 15/12/2016 21:40

Im taking that advice of cuddles! My DS is four months old and I worry about the whole sleep thing! He's a good sleeper (most of the time) and can go off on his own but I do enjoy the snuggles Smile If you're anything like me OP and you keep reading about self soothing and settling and how you could be ruining things by cuddling to sleep too much it is worrying!

DS can do it, but I won't refuse him a snuggle.

FuckingHellz · 15/12/2016 21:46

The way I think of it is they won't need cuddling to sleep when they're a teenager! Smile

I've also resigned myself to the fact that I might have a tidy house again in about 20 years Grin

YokoUhOh · 15/12/2016 21:56

Babies and mums are biologically programmed to enjoy cuddles. There is no such thing as a rod for your own back. Cuddle away and forget sleep training, they'll do it when developmentally ready (DS1 is 4 years old and still comes into my bed, so I guess he just needs to comfort).

Original poster
Jemimapuddingduck · 15/12/2016 22:33

Thanks for the replies we've only started this week because she refuses to sleep downstairs with us after 6pm and it's not like we're going to go and lie in bed in the dark with her at that time so intensely monitoring the monitor from downstairs is the only option!

I wasn't sure what to do and no one had replied in time so I just stood outide the door to make sure she was just shouting to herself but not upset and she soon put herself to sleep.

I'd much rather her be down with us but the last few days she screams until I put her to bed so I think she's ready even if we're not! Sad

OP posts:
thethoughtfox · 15/12/2016 22:40

The more secure they are, the better they sleep. They need you at this age. Some are need mama more than others. But they can't soothe themselves if they are upset. They can, however, learn to stop crying because they learn no one comes.

minipie · 15/12/2016 23:10

MN is very anti sleep training OP, especially controlled crying and especially before the baby is a teenager a year old. Hence why you're getting all the "cuddle her" replies.

There are a few of us around who take a different view though. If whatever you were doing before wasn't keeping her happy then I think trying this is ok.

WellErrr · 15/12/2016 23:13

4 months is too young for sleep training. I have a 4 month old on my knee now, I can't I cant imagine ever leaving her to cry. She's tiny.

Babies are wakeful in the evenings. Eventually, they go to sleep earlier. They just get into the right routine themselves, all my older ones did.

At four months, you go with the flow.

Original poster
Jemimapuddingduck · 15/12/2016 23:25

Just to clarify she's not really crying just kind of shouty talking to herself and we're not doing controlled crying just trying to stop her actually screaming the house down by putting her to bed in a darkened room with the baby monitor on which she seems to respond well to

I'm not forcing the sleep training on her, she just seems to be happier in bed without us (we are very sad on our own downstairs) so I thought it was a sign that we should go with it and carry it through so pick up/ put down if she cries etc. but not really sure what consists of a pick up able noise

I have PND and really bad anxiety so if you could not make me feel crap about it that would be great because this is already pretty hard as it is.

OP posts:
WellErrr · 16/12/2016 00:00

I don't think anyone's trying to make you feel crap. I'm certainly not. We're all just trying our best Flowers

Onthedowns · 16/12/2016 04:21

I do wonder at these posts as soon as they don't go the right way PND crops up. I hope it's genuine I really do / having suffered terribly with a premature SCBU baby. 4 months is to young for sleep training but not routine necessarily there's a world of difference

Rockingaround · 16/12/2016 05:00

Offs,

hi OP from what I can fathom, you're just putting baby to sleep in cot in your bedroom as opposed to downstairs. I had to stay with mine until they fell asleep --still
do, they're 4+6-- but it's great that your DD fell asleep on her own; you were right outside the door - I think that's more than totally fine. She may not do it all the time and I know I never grasped the pick up put down thing, but I think the main message to send to your DD is reassurance, wether you do that in the room with her or by popping back in when you feel she needs you. I know that PND can make you doubt your qualities, but you know when your girl needs you from the sounds she makes, let those be your cues that she needs reassurance. Having confidence as a mother is such an illusive thing, I'm pg with our third and I still second guess many of my decisions every day. Sleep with your first baby is a road untravelled for both of you. Please just be kind to yourself, don't put yourself under any pressure, what works one day may be different the next - as will both of your needs. Putting her down in her own cot upstairs with the baby monitor on, with you there to help her drift off, to pop in and reassure her, to hold her hand when needed is perfectly normal at 16 weeks old. Being downstairs is probably too stimulating for her now, you've made the right decision Flowers xx

Original poster
Jemimapuddingduck · 16/12/2016 05:04

I've posted for genuine fucking advice and you're calling me a liar??

If you checked my post history you'd see I'm actually having a really fucking tough time at the moment so thanks for not adding anything helpful and making me feel more shit than I already do!

OP posts:
Original poster
Jemimapuddingduck · 16/12/2016 05:12

Thank you rockingaround she's asleep when I first put her down but all the bloody advice I can find says they need to be sleepy not sleeping or they get into terrible habits blah blah so I wasn't sure to go in or not but the baby whisper says stand outside the door so that's what I did.

I'll stay with her tonight until she's asleep if she wakes or send dh in he's missing his cuddles now she's in bed before he gets in from work.

OP posts:
Refluxsux · 16/12/2016 05:32

What you've done is perfectly fine. You tried something new and it worked. She was telling you she needed something different and you sorted it. Just because a baby is vocal while winding down doesn't mean she's in distresss. I imagine as her mother you can tell when she is in distress and would go to her. PND is a right cow. You're doing great. You'll come out the other side, you really will. But honestly MN isn't the best place when you're feeling fragile. I'd go for a different forum even if you have to put up with being called Hun!

Pluto30 · 16/12/2016 05:42

If grizzling, I would just go in and pat on the back. Reassure the baby you're still there, but don't pick them up.

If crying/screaming/hysterical, I'd pick them up, put them to your shoulder, pat and rock a little bit until they're completely calm, then repeat the process.

I have a friend who works at a centre specifically for difficult babies and she deals with a lot of bad sleepers. She's said that babies are capable of sleeping through at 6mo, so if you don't seem to have any luck with sleep training now, I would say just let it go and do what you've got to do to survive for another couple of months and then try again.

I had to do sleep training with DS2. He was a nightmare sleeper. It worked for us. Took about a week of going in every 5-10 minutes for an hour until he'd fall asleep, but he's slept very well ever since (with the exception of teething, ear infections, colds etc - the usual things that stop people from sleeping well).

I truly don't believe for a second that you're doing your baby any harm by putting them down and letting them cry/whinge/grizzle for a while. There's just no logic to that at all. You can be the most loving and attentive parent in the world, but you also need to put your sanity and mental health at the forefront of your priorities. FWIW, my controlled crying/CIO/sleep trained baby is now 5.5 and the most affectionate and loving of all three of my children. I don't think it did him any harm. Wink

Good luck, OP. Flowers

Eminybob · 16/12/2016 06:07

Hi op.
It doesn't sound like what you are doing is sleep training, as you are not leaving the baby to cry, I think some of the harsh responses you've had are due to the wording you've used rather than what you are actually doing.

At 4 months I was putting DS to sleep upstairs at bed time with the monitor because he slept better that way.

Are you breast feeding? I relied on breastfeeding to sleep at that age, and cuddling and rocking, I honestly don't think it made a rod for my back as DS has self settled at bed time since he was 9/10 months, he just started doing it when I stopped breastfeeding, without any intervention from me, but until than I just did what I needed to do to get him off.

Naps are another matter, and DS still needs cuddling and rocking to go off at nap time (he's 2 ffs Hmm!) but I do it because it's no skin off my nose, only takes a few minutes and if we are out and about and I can't do that he will fall asleep in the push chair or car. I'm happy to keep doing it until he drops the nap.

My point is, there isn't anything wrong with doing what you need to do to help them off to sleep, and in the long run its actually easier ask less stressful than trying to force self settling before they are ready.

scrumptiouscrumpets · 16/12/2016 06:40

Sounds like you did the right thing. She went to sleep without crying herself to sleep. I'd try the same thing this evening. If she starts sounding distressed (trust yourself, you will know when she is distressed), you can be in there immediately if you stand outside the door.

Mn is very anti sleep training, usually followed by phrase "mine is 6 now and sleeps all night!" Confused

Both of mine were ready to sleep in a dark and quiet room by 3 months. It's not unusual.
Take care of yourself and don't doubt yourself as a mum!

GizmoFrisby · 16/12/2016 06:48

4 months is far to early to sleep train.
I honestly don't know where some people's brains are on here at times

FATEdestiny · 16/12/2016 07:56

Jemimapuddingduck - PND and anxiety can make some mothers detached and less responsive to their baby.

I dont mean that to be offensive or uncompassionate. When my best friend suffered and was detached from her firstborn for the first 6 months, she recognised this starting with her second child and made efforts to mitigate by focusing on attachment bonding - "fake it until you make it", kind of thing.

Leaving baby to cry/shout/grumble can be (not always) a sign of detachment caused by post natal anxiety.

It can therefore be a decision made with the best interests of the MOTHER at heart, not the best interests of the BABY.

Rockingaround · 16/12/2016 10:16

O Jesus! All she's doing is putting her DD upstairs as opposed to in the living room with the telly on, lights, talking, smells of food etc etc she's hardly leaving her to scream her lungs out!

There is NOTHING in any of the OP's posts that have indicated any form of difficulty in attachment, are you trying to make her feel terrible? I appreciate your friend may have felt like this but it's not thread worthy here.

As PP has said, its the phrase "seep-training" which has tipped the balance. She's not sleep training, the baby is just in her cot and her mummy is RIGHT THERE! Lay off the OP!

OP - honestly, some people! Shake it off, you know in your heart that every minute of every day, you're doing your absolute best for your angel girl, which is why you were on here at ridiculous-O'clock this morning.

With regards to the PND, it may pass... I take 40mg of citalopram, I have both breastfed and been pregnant whilst taking them. I'm more positive, laugh more and take things less seriously - I'm happy, which used to be my only wish when blowing candles out, throwing a penny in a fountain etc so of it's getting on top of you, (and I am by no means saying you have indicated that at all) go an see your GP Flowers

unicornpoopoop · 16/12/2016 10:34

Yeah I did just the same with my baby. She gets really grumpy when it's near her bed time and can't wait to get put down. She's 8 months now. And she's self soothed with a blanket off her own back since she was tiny.

All babies are different and I don't see why you should rush in to pick up a a baby who is just babbling to themselves quite happily.

The OP wasn't suggesting leaving her to cry at all...

As long as she's happy and content, I would just leave her be but as you're doing keep monitoring the baby monitor/checking up on her...

I'm sure everyone will now jump on me for my terrible advice...