So tired I actually don't think I'm safe to look after my children

[NoCapes]

DS2 turns 7 months this week and his sleeping is just getting worse and worse as time goes on

He gets up around 12 times a night
There are nights when it's every half an hour or less
He is absolutely fine to settle and it doesn't take long to get him back off, he just won't stay asleep!

During the day I'm starting to feel really horrific now, I have a permanent headache, I take probably way too paracetamol/ibuprofens to get through the day
I'm in a permanent state of semi-spaced-out-ness, sometimes I'll drive and can't remember the journey home (I've stopped driving as much as I possibly can with kids in the car now)
The baby climbed out of his chair today and banged his head on the wooden floor, I was nearby but my reflexes just aren't up to it anymore and I wasn't quick enough to catch him

I just don't understand why he won't sleep
We've done everything we did with our other kids, revert thing is dark and quiet half an hour before bedtime, he has a bath every other night and the nights he doesn't have a bath he just gets into his pj's, we have a bottle, he falls asleep very easily
This has been our routine since he was about 8 weeks old
We've moved it earlier and later, tried giving bottle upstairs and downstairs, but nothing changes
He just won't sleep
But he is tired

Sorry for the ramblings, I need help
What else can I do?

Hmm that is a good point leni about it confusing him, and written down that does look like a lot of feeds, but saying 3/4 hours of uninterrupted sleep several times a night sounds like absolute heaven right now
But yes I think you're right and it's too much
So say I'm aiming for bedtime to be 8pm - 6am atm, I should give him milk at 1:30ish?

I know I really really need to sort his naps out, I didn't know where to start tbh and how many I should be aiming for at this age as with my others they'd already fell into their own happy little schedule by now, but I'm going to use the 2:3:4 routine a PP suggested (sorry I can't scroll up to see who) so I'm going to really try to sort the day times, I think this will be the best place to start really

So far tonight he had 4oz at 8:30ish, I let him sleep on me for a while because I'd just given up tbh, so I put him in his cot at 10:10ish, he woke up at 11, then again at 11:55, and both times I've settles him back down without milk (hurrah!) second time took a bit longer but still only 10/15 mins so not horrific
I think I'm going to do my best to not go to bed tonight, broken sleep is worse than no sleep, and at least this way I'll be more patient and less tempted to stick a bottle in to settle him off...although I am very tired now so I might not make it ha

Just awake with my baby so checking in. Has he had a feed yet?

Yes, He went from 11:55 until 2:10 bloody Sod's law when I was staying up isn't it, all that sleep I could've had
Anyway he's just took 5oz and gone back to sleep, in his cot!

I'm thinking a lot of the problem may have become me rushing him
When he had that bottle then he took a few breaks but because I was up I just let him have a breather and then he carried on and had more, whereas when he was waking me I think I'd have took the bottle away at those points in a desperate bid to get back to sleep, so he's still be hungry and not sleep
This time he physically spat the bottle out and turned his head when he's finished, and has gone down no problems
So now I'm feeling horrible about the whole thing, poor baby

Don't feel horrible about it, you are trying to solve the sleep problem and have just come to realise what it may be, this could all be a fluke of course he knows you've posted this!

So glad that this could be working for you, hope it all goes as smoothly as tonight

Haha entirely possible TheFuture my kids have a habit of making me look like a liar like that!
Thankyou me too!

I think you have hit the nail on the head- he needs to take the whole bottle at the time its offered, and space these out much more. Don't let him nod off taking it, just take a break, I would even rewake my dd to get a full (bf) in if she woke in the night, otherwise you/the bottle are acting like a dummy and it doesn't solve the hunger problem or the self-settling problem.

I would also do one late night feed (11ish) then only one more in the whole night and even consider none til 6am at this age.

If you can start getting him to self-settle (fall asleep without bottle/milk) in the day (which may involve crying, but better than in the middle of the night), you will be on your way to solving this pretty soon I reckon, good luck.

Glad you've seen the light re your P. Have you tried cranial osteopathy?

He needs fall asleep in his cot not in your arms.
I used to wake dd up just to put her to bed. It solved huge sleep issues.

What a wanker your dh is! Sorry about that.

My one rule was I never encouraged my DC to sleep in my arms I always put them either in the cot or pram to stretch out properly and I always felt they have a more settled sleep. I agree with PP I always put my DC in there own room in their cot they seem to settle much easier and left through rather early. I always draw the blinds downs and after a feed will place them down for a sleep. My newborn is very attached to his dummy so it is a godsend. Your DP is an arsehole. He should be pulling his weight I'm crossed for you.

Where does your DS take his daily naps maybe a put him down in the cot to help him get use to sleeping there.

I had a bit of a sleep after my last post, DS woke at 4:15 and I settled with no bottle, took 20 mins and then he's just woke up at 5:30, I was expecting to be up for the day but nope, it took 20 mins again but he's gone back down this is absolutely unheard of! I've been up at 5/5:30am regularly for months!
I'm not going to try to go back to sleep now, I reckon another hour will make me feel like shit because I'm quite awake now, so I'm just lay in bed relaxing with no baby on me !!

TheWind I totally agree, those are the areas that I need to work on, no more dicking about with his bottle allowed

Stardust he used to nap in his cot during the day, but will only sleep on me now, as of today he will be going back in his cot for naps

I so appreciate all of this support by the way I really do? Thankyou

I think you should take this as a sign that between 8:30 and say 7, he needs just the one feed. So you figure out a time and stick to it, say 2 am.

What might happen is that he wakes several times (because it has now become his habit), but as he realises that he's not being fed, you will find it will be easier and easier to settle, as a quick shush/pat/cuddle/tuck in will work rather than a 20 min resettle. This might take 10 days to 2 weeks to get to with a few days better than others. We did this stage over a month.

Over time gradually work on getting to the point of the least interference. If he is in your room still, then perhaps getting to the point where just a 'shh' from you rather than a proper re-settle puts him back to sleep. Again, to break a lifetime's habit will take 10-14 days but again we took a good month over this before I was convinced that he had 'got it'.

And then as a third and final step perhaps work on ensuring that when he is in a light sleep cycle and perhaps grunting/moaning that you don't necessarily attend to him, but let him be. Over time he will learn to connect those sleep cycles.

We worked on each stage over a period of 10 days or more (no miracle 3 day cures) and for each day I kept a sleep diary so even if there was a blip, overall I could see how much further we had come.

Also keep a milk diary so you are happy and secure that he is getting enough milk/nutrition in the day. The last thing I would suggest is that if he is unable to nap in the cot then just get him to nap, in whatever way you can at least to begin with. Stage 1 of sorting naps is just ensuring regular naps at regular times of decent lengths even if you have to co-sleep for a bit to ensure it. Then once the timings for the nap are set (again maybe over 2 weeks), you can work on settling him in his cot.

My general advice is that if you try to do all 3 steps and all of the nap changes at once, he will resist, and you might find that you feel there is no improvement (even if there is!) but doing it more gradually allows you to feel you are in control of it.

I second the reflux query.
Was us.
Sleep Was transformed by treatment.

Thankyou leni that is really helpful advice, I'm going to follow your lead and not change too much at once, since I've already started there I'm just going to continue with getting him taking a decent amount of milk at one time during the night for now
I'm also going to try to make him have less naps but longer ones during the day and less dummy when he's awake (the dummy should be easy, he very rarely cries for it, it has become another thing that I rely on rather than him)
I think that's enough for the first couple of days

I'm starting to see that actually a lot of the problem was me, not him, and I've got to stop going for those quick fixes for a quiet life

He had 3oz of bottle at 6:05am and went back to sleep (!!!!!!) until 7, I got him up and brought him down then and he is now napping on me after another oz at 9:30 (I really tried to get him to take more I really did but he was too tired)
So I'm sat writing all of this in a little book
Just being more aware is already helping so I think a diary is a really good idea

I feel so much more positive about this today thankyou all so so much you lovely people

Oh yes Portobelly I'm going to ring the GP now too

Your point about him needing some milk during the night isn’t true. If you think about it rationally, lots of of babies sleep through by 7 months and don’t have any milk. His waking for milk has become a habit which needs to be broken. Looks like you are on the right path though! Good luck.

Ds1 was a dreadful sleeper. Nothing worked. Nothing!

Later, when he was 6yo, I found that the underlying cause was his tongue tie and high palate.

Have you talked to the HV? If this restlessness is only when he is lying down, then the suggestion above of reflux makes sense.

Get a dummy - anything to get you some sleep.

I remember being so tired that I flaked out on the sofa and woke up a couple of hours later to a crying baby and a toddler rampaging about!!

I'm uneasy with the suggestion that ALL babies can go through without feeding t seven months. I genuinely think mine can't.
I can also smell ketones on him most days - and he's genuinely hungry when he wakes.
I'd get your baby a quick MOT at the doc before you go cold turkey on the milk ( and hope you have better bloody doctors than me, they just told us to leave him to cry, ffs.)
If you do think he's feeding only from habit, cut the night feeds gradually.

And to those who say 'just' put him in his cot - we did! We did... Then one day he went from in cot sleepy but awake and being fine to acting like the cot was a snake pit. And nothing, nothing we did changed that.

bluesky I have to agree with skiptonlass in saying that just because some babies can sleep all night without milk it doesn't mean they all can
Aren't we always telling each other on here that babies are all different?
My other 2 certainly weren't going 12 hours a night without milk at this age, and I really think it's too long for DS2
Although yes I agree the frequency of waking a has become habit
I'm hoping to get him down to just one night waking for milk and nothing else, I'll be more than happy with that at this age

it's really awful to be so sleep deprived. I've had to Unfriend someone on FB who constantly boasts about well her baby sleeps and tags me in it

Some people...

We are at the docs later his week so I'm going to push (again) for them to look for reflux (they just looked blank last time and told me to leave him to cry...)

Your dh needs to help too. It's just not on that he won't. The only reason I'm still sane is because dh gets up with ds at 5 ( or 2... Sigh) am and distracts him so I can get an hour of sleep. Dh has a long hours, high pressure high profile job.
Unless your husband is a neurosurgeon or air traffic controller or pilot who absolutely cannot have less than a full nights kip, he needs to help out.

Mine had a breastfeed every night at 4 am till he was 13 months. Switched to the bottle and noticed that he was literally putting it to his lips and going to sleep. Which made me think it was then a habit, and then I felt more confident about cutting out that final feed.

skipton your friend sounds like one of those people who are the reason I don't have Facebook!
How old is your baby? Can't believe the doctor told you to let him cry, I thought they weren't allowed to advise things like that anymore can you see a different GP within your practise?

New question (I swear I've raised two kids before this one quite successfully, I seem to have lost all ability to parent babies )
Looking at the diary I'm keeping so far he's taking more milk during the night than he is during the day, but between naps and solids I don't need know where I can fit in more bottle feeds during the daytime? How many should he be having at this age?

From memory, it was 4 bottles a day at that age. So 7am, breakfast at 8, milk after nap at 10.30, lunch, milk after nap at 3.00, afternoon snack at 4, dinner at 5, bedtime bottle at 6.30-45. Maybe one as a dreamfeed.

Thanks Diddly
He really wouldn't take a bottle after a nap today, I think he thought I was trying to get him back to sleep
I need to break that bottle/sleep association before I can fit in more daytime bottles I think
Really made a rod for my own back there didn't I