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Original poster

So tired I actually don't think I'm safe to look after my children

134 replies

NoCapes · 31/05/2016 20:43

DS2 turns 7 months this week and his sleeping is just getting worse and worse as time goes on

He gets up around 12 times a night
There are nights when it's every half an hour or less
He is absolutely fine to settle and it doesn't take long to get him back off, he just won't stay asleep!

During the day I'm starting to feel really horrific now, I have a permanent headache, I take probably way too paracetamol/ibuprofens to get through the day
I'm in a permanent state of semi-spaced-out-ness, sometimes I'll drive and can't remember the journey home (I've stopped driving as much as I possibly can with kids in the car now)
The baby climbed out of his chair today and banged his head on the wooden floor, I was nearby but my reflexes just aren't up to it anymore and I wasn't quick enough to catch him

I just don't understand why he won't sleep
We've done everything we did with our other kids, revert thing is dark and quiet half an hour before bedtime, he has a bath every other night and the nights he doesn't have a bath he just gets into his pj's, we have a bottle, he falls asleep very easily
This has been our routine since he was about 8 weeks old
We've moved it earlier and later, tried giving bottle upstairs and downstairs, but nothing changes
He just won't sleep
But he is tired

Sorry for the ramblings, I need help
What else can I do?

OP posts:
Artistic · 31/05/2016 21:20

Sorry I should add that we tried a sleep consultant and that did nothing for us as. Any routine/crying was just too hard, and wasted when she came down with any illness/fever.

I should also say that even now at 20 months DD2's sleep & food are my topmost priority on a daily basis. These are linked (for her) and if I don't keep things smooth, I am the one that will pay the price that night. So no outside dinners for us, or having guests post 8pm or eating whatever is easy (and make her hungry midnight) or sleep too late or in the car etc. I just stick to the rules & enjoy my sleep now.

Just try to remember that this will pass in a few months...

Fairuza · 31/05/2016 21:21

I think falling asleep on the bottle is the problem. If he can't fall asleep on his own at bedtime then he won't be able to settle himself when he stirs in the night.

I'd move the bottle earlier in the bedtime routine, put him in his cot awake and sit with him shushing and stroking his back til he falls asleep. Only get him out of the cot if he gets really distressed and put him down once he's calm.

originaldoozy · 31/05/2016 21:22

Oh I also wanted to say DS was a terribly sleeper until the day he crawled. He slept 12 hours that night and barring illness 10-12 hours every night since. Nothing I did other than give him a dummy did anything to even remotely improve his sleep before then. He obviously just needed MUCH more physical activity (he walked 2 weeks after he crawled).

Duckstar · 31/05/2016 21:23

I went with a sleep consiltant. Best £350 I ever spent. My son was 7 1/2 months and I was due back at work and he was waking every 1.5 hrs to feed. I was just too tired to read/try different methods. If you have the cash I would do it, particularly if your husband isn't going to help you out. You need support.

Original poster
NoCapes · 31/05/2016 21:25

Forgot to mention the dummy, he does have one and once he's asleep I'll whip the bottle out and put the dummy in, but he won't fall asleep with just the dummy
But! He does have the dummy a lot during the day, so I could try to stop giving him the dummy unless he's going to sleep? That sounds like advice I would've give when I was a normal functioning human, I will try that

And I know I know "D"P is an arsehole, I have lost a huge amount of respect for him and I don't see this relationship as the rest of my life believe me, but for now I neeeeeeed those few hours at the weekend, so he stays for now

OP posts:
Sgoinneal · 31/05/2016 21:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Diddlydokey · 31/05/2016 21:28

The dummy should be kept if he can find it and put it back in. I'd get rid if not

Original poster
NoCapes · 31/05/2016 21:29

Oh I'm a slow typer, major x-post with about 8 people Blush
Ok I'm going to try water throughout the night, my mum has the older 2 for a sleepover tonight so I might brave it and go for it tonight

original he has been crawling for 5 weeks - not any more tired than before

OP posts:
JuxtapositionRecords · 31/05/2016 21:29

How is he sleeping in the day? Length/where etc? Is he crawling or trying to crawl

Massive sympathy by the way - it is so, so hard

JuxtapositionRecords · 31/05/2016 21:30

Sorry just seen crawling already - was going to suggest while they are learning this it messes sleep up!

Original poster
NoCapes · 31/05/2016 21:33

During the day he is the same, he just cat naps, 20/30 minutes here and there, and mostly sleeps on me, as soon as I put him down he's awake in minutes and won't resettle, then he falls asleep whenever we're in the pram or the car

He used to have 3 lovely 1 hour/1 & 1/2 hour naps in his cot during the day and nothing in between, I'm not really sure when that went to shit tbh, every day is blurring into the next

OP posts:
Roomba · 31/05/2016 21:37

I wondered about silent reflux. DS2 had this and my life was utter hell during his first year. I've no idea how I didn't kill us all by accident as I was so tired I hallucinated regularly. Cosleeping did help me, it didn't reduce his wakings but it meant we were both back to sleep within five mins or so of him waking up. Ex DP having moved into his own room by that point also helped as plenty room in the bed (a whole other story!)

I would see your GP to check there isn't anything like reflux there, and I'd give the water a go (didn't work for me as DS was BF and a staunch bottle refuser). I've known a few babies that the water at night worked well for - they just got bored and didn't wake as they knew it would just be water given. And get your DP to help out - mine didn't and it was the final straw for us as he would moan about being tired when he'd had 8 hours sleep and I'd had about 8 broken hours per week.

Sympathies, it is really grim.

3luckystars · 31/05/2016 21:40

Yes and my post should have said a box of "gaviscon"

Original poster
NoCapes · 31/05/2016 21:42

Oh I forgot to reply about the silent reflux, that is very interesting and something I hadn't even considered
I will definitely ask the GP just in case

OP posts:
Diddlydokey · 31/05/2016 21:43

Best of luck Op. Just tell yourself that the milk bar is closed. It will reopen at 6 am. He will sleep without it.

I night weaned at 7 5 months. It was easy - he was ready. He slept through unless poorly or teething after that.

lovealatte · 31/05/2016 21:48

I really sympathise, my ds was exactly the same at that age. I don know if I agree that he shouldn't have any milk at all at that age - 12 hours is a long time. But it would be good if you could get him to have just one full bottle rather than little bits throughout the night.
I think the key really is to get him to fall asleep in his bed if possible. This is what made the difference for us. We hired a sleep consultant because we were both losing our minds and she advised us to start by putting ds down awake in the dark, pulling a chair up to sit right beside him (literally right beside him, right up where his head is) then read our phone or kindle (partly to illuminate our face so ds could see we were there, and partly as a distraction so we weren't tempted to interac). Every 5 minutes we could say a comforting sentence and every 10 minutes we could pick him up and cuddle him. We were DREADING the first night but he was asleep before we got to 20 minutes and actuary didn't get particularly upset! His night time sleep started improving almost immediately, possibly because he wasn't waking up in his cot and thinking how the hell did I get here??? Within a week he had gone from about 1o wakenings to around 3. Might be worth a try?

loveulotslikejellytots · 31/05/2016 21:52

I don't know if anyone has already mentioned it, but have you tried him in his own room? I had a bed side crib for DD which I loved, but she would wake so much during the night. My DH suggested trying her in her own room and it worked for us. It cut her night waking down from approx. 8-10 times a night to once a night over the course of a few days. DH snores and I talk in my sleep, I think we were disturbing her.

From what other people have posted, the silent reflux sounds more likely but I just thought I'd give another option/opinion. Hope he sleeps better soon.

Chillyegg · 31/05/2016 22:02

Have you tried a dummy?
Also have you thought it might be reflux? My dd has a host of health issues but one we only discovered a few months ago was she has reflux. And so she has rantadine once in the morning and once at night. And she sleeps so much better..
Also my dd sometimes sleeps with me and so I've got a rail from argos..
Is he earing enough before bed? Ie if he's drinking 3 bottles could you try a bigger dinner that's closer to bed time?

Chillyegg · 31/05/2016 22:03

Cross post sorry I'm a slow typer.

Original poster
NoCapes · 31/05/2016 22:20

Right here's my plan for now-

  • make appointment at GP first thing in the morning
  • try to get him to take a whole bottle at bedtime
  • only let him have milk when it's been long enough (ie 3/3 & 1/2 hours after the time before) I just feel he's a bit young to be expected to have zero milk for 10/12 hours, we feed on demand throughout the day so I think cold turkey is just too much
  • try not to pick him up when it's not feeding time
  • off we water when if I cram and pick him up
  • stop giving dummy during the day unless he's going to sleep

Then reassess in a few days
What do you think?

OP posts:
Original poster
NoCapes · 31/05/2016 22:20

Thankyou all so so much for your suggestions and sympathies by the way Flowers

OP posts:
Leeloo2 · 31/05/2016 22:36

Putting him down awake will make the biggest difference. If he's never sleeping longer than 30 mins, he's never resettling himself.

Try to get him to sleep better during the day - so if the buggy works, then do that. From recollection, at 7 months they need at least an hour in the morning and afternoon.

Then at bedtime, I'd second what a pp said about sitting by the cot, so you are visible but not interacting and let him fuss himself to sleep.

I was in a similar situation and read advice that said teaching a baby to sleep is like coaching a football team, you can give them skills, but you can't play the match for them - ultimately they have to learn to do it themselves.

Good luck op

Leeloo2 · 31/05/2016 22:37

Sorry, forgot to say, the better napping during the day means he won't be tired at night.

Diddlydokey · 31/05/2016 22:39

7 months is perfect for the 234 routine so a nap in the morning, 2 hours after waking, then 3, then bedtime.

For most that is 7 am waking, 9-10.30, 1.30-3 then bed at 7

lenibose · 31/05/2016 23:41

That sounds like a good plan.

My only worry is that if he is getting milk at some wake ups and not at others, it is very confusing for him. He might think that if he whinges/screams enough then that some point in time you give in. My gut feeling is that at 7 months he should probably be able to go more than 3.5 hours without a feed/drink? That would mean he was drinking at say 7/10:30/1;30/4:30. That's a lot of night time milk at 7 months. I would try and feed him much more often in the day and do a good 6/7 hour stretch sans milk at night. It sounds to me like he is reverse cycling- i.e. having most of his milk at night rather than in the day?

A second thing is the repeated wakings. It could be physical/ie. reflux related and only someone medical can confirm that. But if this has never been an issue, and your gut feeling is that it is behavioural, then it might well be.

The dummy question. We only restricted the dummy to bedtime and to long car journeys. This then creates good sleep associations with the dummy. When he was 2.5 I explained that his dummy would be gone. The first night he cried a lot, the second night less, and then it was fine. 7 days later the dummy fairy bought a toy train. He remembered it for a month and then never mentioned it again.

The final thing I would say is that if his naps are an issue, then see what you can do to get those back on track. I did whatever I could to get him to nap for long hours, and it helped with his night sleep immeasurably. So if I also lost out on a daytime nap (because I was holding him etc) it didn't matter because I was better rested at night, IYKWIM. After a month or so of 'do whatever it takes to nap' at specific times, I found that he was much more willing to be put down at those hours and willing to go to sleep. But for a short while we were indeed slaves to his nap, but it made a big overall difference.