Sleepless of Mumsnet - join us if your LO consistently laughs in the face of sleep!

[Purpleboa]

Hi everyone. I thought I'd create this thread when I saw that there were quite a few of us lingering on the 4 month regression thread, with babies that clearly didn't get the memo about things getting better!

I've seen another thread for parents whose children are long term poor sleepers but I think it's been relegated to zombie status. So I hope nobody minds if I start another one! If your LO consistently struggles to sleep, whether it's down to diet, night terrors or just sheer bloody mindedness, please pull up an armchair and join in! I'll supply the espressos, hugs and chocolate, wine and tears served after 4pm.

I'll start: my DD is 25 weeks. She's gorgeous, adorable and the absolute light of my life. Unless it's between the hours of 7pm and 7am! She's struggled with sleep always. I thought things would improve following the 'fourth trimester' but she got a cold, reacted badly to her jabs...and before I knew it we'd cruised into the 4 month regression. Which she's either still in, or she's teething, or developing, or wonder weeking, or fck knows really!

The past two weeks have been particularly painful and I feel I'm reaching the limits of my endurance. I love being her mum, I love spending time with her...but not sleeping makes it oh so very hard.

I have found Mumsnet to be a wonderful source of support during those dark and lonely hours when you feel like you're the only person in the world going through this. So I wanted to give back and support others too.

I'll put the kettle on...

zombie - my friends dd had this and it wasnt diagnosed till she was 6. Shes had an operation and they saw an instant improvement overnight. I dont know much abouy it but did a quick google and found this: www.ucsfbenioffchildrens.org/education/interview_rosbe_pediatric_sleep_disorders/index.html

Ds def has the dribble rash but the hot red cheeks only seem to flare when intry and give him neocate ironically

We get wind fluff but not screaming. It couldnbe her digestive system kicking in? Def try probiotics. I have my ds on them permanently... we are on our 4th bottle now. We use biogaia from amazon x

Might try the probiotics then, she was screeching with it this morning and yesterday morning and we've not given her anything massively windy in terms of food. It's obviously as she starts to rouse at 4.30/5am and then her digestive system wakes up and goes into overdrive.

Thanks starfish will have a read. We have a consultant appointment coming up in April. He tends to get all defensive if j mention anything he hasn't looked at before. Think he thinks I'm telling him how to do his job

Well ds has been waking in the night very strangely. He's slept well a few nights but on the occasions he's woken up he's literally been screaming and inconsolable.

He won't take his dummy and is throwing himself around, even bringing him into bed hasn't helped. He's been high pitched screaming and completely inconsolable even when picked up. I've had to turn the lights on and keep cuddling him and talking to him. Then he's been unable to get back to sleep for ages.

It's almost like he's having a nightmare but he's only 7 months.

I'm thinking he could have a dummy ache or it could be his reflux again but he's really happy during the day.

That's difficult pyjama. Not sure what it could be, but separation anxiety could be kicking in, then he finds it difficult to settle? Not nice for you though. Sounds like you're doing the right things to get through it.

Bit of a crap day here, feeling the need to vent to ladies who will understand! Health visitor came out. Told me off a bit for feeding DD at night and still not having her napping in her cot. Also told to get her eating solids so she's getting nutrients. Er I AM TRYING! Feel judged and inadequate. DD also hasn't put much weight on. Still on the same percentile though. I just remember when she was doing so well with her weight gain and it seems to have slowed right down.

And all on top of the usual bad night.

I would like to just stop the world and go to my happy place. And sleep and sleep and sleep!

Ah well. Onwards we march...

Oh that was supposed to say tummy ache not dummy ache! He's been doing small hard poos so wondering if he's a bit constipated.

It could be separation anxiety I forgot that kicks in around this age. All I know is it's different to when he usually wakes it's as though he was in pain or scared.

I get fed up with people stupid advice, like I mentioned the poos to my sister and she said "well it's better than the runny ones he was doing". He wasn't doing runny poos they were normal yellow, soft baby poos. Fil keeps suggesting he's having too much milk, he's definitely not, 3 bottles and I'm not going to cut the milk as it's still important.

Purple did your HV actually have any advice on how you can do these things?** It's all very well telling you what she thinks you should do but any support? It's so hard when your baby has other ideas.

People on the feeding forums seem quite knowledgable about weaning, although most seem to be doing blw. We decided not to in the end, and it was dh who managed to get ds to eat as he just screamed every time I put a spoon near him.

They do slow down purple , so if she's on the same centile she's doing exactly what she's supposed to. HVs are so annoying aren't they, they tell you what you 'should' be doing as if it's the easiest thing in the world to implement. If you read no cry sleep solution it says it's perfectly normal to feed a baby in the night at 7 months

Pyjamar ds went through a phase of doing that, no idea what caused it but he kind of settled down himself, he still wakes up but doesn't scream like he used to. Sorry that's not much help!

Purple what a dick thing to do of your health visitor, fat load of help she is have you tried reducing by an oz each night? Some babies just want to be fed in the night though the silly woman. And agree with star, their weight gain does slow down. I asked for advice on the feeding threads for ds and they were very helpful, can't remember what was said but they came up with lots of useful advice.

Thanks all. I'll check out the feeding forums. The hv also said I should be giving her food when she's hungry...if I do that she screams the place down and refuses to eat anything!

Zombie she is breastfed and won't take a bottle. So I don't know how much she's getting. Which is frustrating and makes weaning harder to do.

I'm going to try and cut down the night feeds to just two as I think that's all she needs. What she wants is a different matter!

HV suggested feeding her a lot during the day so she won't be hungry at night. Was planning to space her feeds out but maybe I shouldn't? It's so hard to know! I preferred it when the advice was to just feed on demand 😂

Oh sorry purple, forgot she was bf. Had you tried offering water at night too (probably already been suggested/tried)

When ds was doing that in the end I just cut his bottles right down, cold turkey and offered 3 meals a day with snacks inbetween with lots of water and baby juice it didn't take long for him to get used to that instead. He was just over 9mo at the time and was having loads of bottles still

purple the best sleeps we've had are when I've force fed DD loads during the day. She's a distractible baby and gets angry when I try to do this though (she also has teeth which means it can be painful!) but she has dropped feeds in the night when I've fed her every 2 hours in the day.

I'm going to attempt to stop night feeds (some) soon too. I think my strategy is going to see if holding her only calms her down and give it 5 mins, if not feed her. I don't really see the point in not feeding her if she's hungry. If I was hungry I'd want food!

Have you seen the kelly mom advice on night weaning? that's quite useful (much better than stupid HV!)

Chances are though if she's being busy in the day and not eating many solids (EXACTLY same as my 7 month old btw), then she needs the food in the night, annoying as it is.

Thanks Zombies, He seemed either in pain, scared or just really tired. I've never known him not want to take his dummy.

Purple I think I'd try to get as much into her into the day as possible if trying to reduce the night feeds. Ds feeds roughly 3 hourly during the day. That's milk and solids but he still has quite a bit of milk.

Its quite difficult to find the best time to give solids ds needs to be hungry, but not too hungry, not tired so timing is everything with us.

Dd slept all night and had just one feed! She did co sleep and I attribute it entirely to having an odd day yesterday. We were out all day and she napped for about 40 mins I total. Obviously she was shattered!

Doubt we'll see a repeat! And I was awake at 4am wondering why she hadn't woken but at least I got some rest

That's awesome fluff! Shows she can do it

Think we are entering wonder week territory... 20 min nap this am and wide awake at 430 yesterday and today. I literally don't have any hopes that DS2 will sleep thru as a baby as I can't see what will change. He quite likes the teddy I forced on him but not to the point it's all he needs in the night (hahaha). I keep thinking of all the sleep I need to catch up on before going back to work in may!!

Wow Fluff! Gives us hope!

Hugs Starfish. I've stopped charting wonder weeks as I think DD has wonder months sounds rough. We had a slightly better night but only because we co slept from 11. She would not settle before that! Feeling fed up today. Got a cold, it's raining and we need to go to swimming classes and I can't be arsed!

How do your babies sleep when you cosleep fluff and purple? As in how many wake us?

Ds would sleep through if cosleeping but I think it frustrates him now because he likes to spread out in his cot, he sleeps in some very funny positions.

My last resort when he won't sleep is slipping away.

Wake ups

Dd seems to be slowly and gradually improving to one or 2 wake ups a night but has a stinking cold and god I'm tired. Have totally buggered my neck and shoulders lugging her around

Pyjama I've moved her into her own room so when I co-sleep I go and get her and plop her down next to me. I've put a bed guard up on my side so she won't fall out of bed. I think she sleeps A LOT better with me, and although she often wakes as much as when she's on her own, I just drag her onto me so the disruption to my sleep is massively reduced. I swing from thinking it's so much easier, just let her do it permanently to worrying about needing to get her to sleep in her own room. She ALWAYS starts the night out (so at least 7-10) in her room so I'm hoping that as long as I keep that it won't create massive problems??

I could do with some advice about my routine though. At the moment I read her a story, lights go out, I feed her, she pulls off (sometimes blinking/awake) and I sing her a song and during signing i'll transfer her to the cot and she usually goes to sleep at that point. Now, should I be getting rid of the song because she then wants to hear that every time she slightly wakes in the night? If so what could I change it to? or does it not matter?

I've wondered the same fluff re white noise as I put his ewan the sheep on to drown out my 2yo and whether he'd need it during night wake ups but to be honest I don't think it would make any difference.

You could change to feed, story, lights out + song to break the feed to sleep association but otherwise I'd just do what works!

I gave my DS2 soya yoghurt the last 2 days to test if he has that allergy and he's been sick quite a lot today, hope we don't have a bad night cos of it. Sorry I know it's off topic but I don't understand why giving something 2 days ago can result in him being sick today . Oh well just something else to worry about!!!

Fluff that is ace news! fingers crossed that she keeps it up. Im pretty crap with routines, but I read the last feed should be given somewhere other than where they will sleep as it helps separate it from associating it with sleep iyswim. I don't think it made any difference with ds changing his last feed to down stairs though.

Hope it's not too rough star! Could he be coming down with something? I gave ds shepards pie (on the milk ladder) and two days later he was sick so I put it down to that, he actually had that stomach bug that went on for a couple of days. I can't remember if you said, has he had a soya reaction before?

I did try to move feed before story but this resulted in an epic screaming session so decided it wasn't worth the hassle. I always think that I can try it again in a few months if she's still dependent on it so why make it stressful now?

Star I guess that's non-ige for you? Agree 2 days seems like a long time though. Maybe go soya free again and trial again in a few days, so hard to get a baseline. I was going to try dd on the milk ladder but as she's blw I can't get her to take enough of anything to trial it so think we'll be waiting a while!

I've never tested him zombie, I just played safe and cut from my diet and am only trialling him now. I know, I thought the same fluff, that's probably why you wait till they are one so they are actually eating half the stuff on the milk ladder!

Well we had quite a good night surprisingly! I had an early night as was shattered and he woke at 11 30pm but DH had already gone to him (!). I heard him screaming via the monitor and was about to take over when it went quiet and DH had rocked him back to sleep. He then slept till 330 when I went and fed him (my boobs were about to explode!). Funny thing is he was back asleep within 15 mins and hardly fed... so I am pretty convinced he can get thru the night without milk. Might try the same again tonight... that was the first time in 7 months I didn't have to get up until 330 am. Bliss! I wasn't asleep the whole time due to DH stamping round when he came to bed and the wailing via the monitor but what a luxury not having to deal with it! Hope you all had good night's x