right extended bf'ders, your suggestions to bring about miracle sleeping baby pls

[FillyjonkthePumpkinEater]

right, i give in

am not going to use controlled crying or similar but need to be sure I am not wantomly depriving myself of sleep

dd-15 months. wakes up hourly b/w 9 and 6. Between 3 and 6 is the worst as she demands constant feeding. If I get up with her, she says "no, bed" very firmly.

she is very lovely but right now, I am not.

thoughts?

failing that-when do they start sleeping through more of the night?

ps yesihaveasling

aw thanks kind posters

last night was crappola

for now, though, am concentrating on getting me as much sleep as possible and when I have done this will consider a strategy. I do have ds's needs to consider also, he's not in nursery either so this is kind of a big one. And he is not at nursery, and basically I get little help with childcare, because of his (articulately stated) need (he is quite confident and very happy and self-sufficient-if he can see me or dp)

I also think that I needed to hear that I was actually possibly doing something good for dd, rather than screwing her up and playing free and loose with my sleep. I didn't expect to hear that, or start the thread with that in mind-but actually, it was what struck a chord.

But I think part of it is saying bllx to it, this is a choice I am making, it may be the wrong one in retrospect but right now this is what I am doing. If that makes sense.

Right am going to buy that book. And maybe a few other books for me also, on some spurious grounds no doubt.

Morning Filly, this was the quote I was thinking of:

"If it was easy to break, it was a habit. If you run into any major difficulty at all, beware, you probably are not dealing with an old worn out habit. Chances are that you are tampering with a need. Habits fade away with a little counter-push. If you ignore basic needs, or try to block them, they shoot sky high. If you treat needs as if they were habits, all you do is to make them go on longer and stronger and more powerfully than ever."

I found it online here and I think the rest of the article might be interesting / helpful too. My other thought was to run through the list here at Dr Sears to see if any of those might help you.

Have you got any books about high need children? Might that help? I have "Mothering your Nursing Toddler" and "How Weaning Happens" (which should be subtitled "Erm....it Doesn't" ) which both deal with night time breastfeeding and how to cope, or how to make changes, if either sound useful?

Hi filly, no real advice, but just wanted to say I totally identified with your post on instantaneous air raid screaming and "squeak rushing" (to borrow Franny's phrase lol).

It will get better as dd gets older, I promise. You can wait for dd to grow out of it OR push her along gently when it gets too mush before that. I agree with you that 15 months is too young but as her understanding grows, you will feel better about setting limits, even if it involves a few outraged tears.

My dd's (3) progess:

15 months - Not taking her downstairs when she wakes up in the middle of the night
17 months - Weaning which miraculously led to sleeping through (during nursing strike caused by MY freaking out at her. I understand this is too drastic for you)
2.5 years - Stopped wheeling her to sleep in buggy

Still to go:

Stop lying with dd in bed to get her to sleep
Get dd out of our bed - envisage her co-sleeping with ds once he is no longer a little bitty baby and he starts sleeping through (help!)

I do hope it gets better for you. I don't know any one like you in RL who is prepared to go so far to meet your baby's sleep needs for so long ((((hugs)))))

god bless subtitles indeed

good idea

I shall become a couch potato. . There is actually one specific problem which is that ds has to go to bed first atm...cos dd wakes so easily. am not sure how to square this

am going to do lots of taking care of me for a bit. I am ahead with my course atm so should be not so bad. Am going to make big effort with eating decent food (where's that thread gone again?) and going to the gym (which I enjoy) and am also going to try to cut caffeine and sugar gradually, all of which I think will help, but am also going to be most sensible.

Franny, thanks for quote (and all the rest of your help), it is spot on. I can't think of a single bad "habit" that either of my kids has had that has been especially hard to persuade them not to do. Bless them, neither have many needs-they are not fussy eaters or scared of the dark or anything really-but the few that they have, my god...

will check out all books! Ack! dd is now a toddler! HTF did that happen?

at blueshoes

I am in an odd situation cos I know quite a few extended bfs who would be in the same situation except they aren't really. They either have less kids, or the kids sleep, or in one annoying but lovely case, both. So they will is there...but...

I want to feed her for as long as she needs. I do recognise that this is a need. But I also have ds to consider. And I wouldn't mind the odd conversation with dp either (though thinking on it...first time ds slept for a few hours straight...conversation with dp...9 months later... maybe I'll just watch dvds )

wow wow wow wow wow wow
this could be me and my ds (although he's only 13 months)
TBH right now we're going through a good patch (except last night, of course!) and he sleeps from about 930-10 til 330ish. then feeds on and off from then on.
I have NO IDEA how it happened. it just did.
it wasn't more food. He doesn't eat. (that's a whole other problem)
He just went from feeding all night. All. Night. To sleeping for 5 or 6 hours.
[LOL jsut have to pause there cause DS just wandered in knuckle deep in his willy. I forgot he wasn't wearing a pullup (just an ordinary escapable nappy) and didn't put any trousers on him!]
anywho, people who don't co-sleep and BF their LOs don't get it. thank god there's MN and other mom's who understand.
I know this hasn't been helpful Filly. I just wanted to post and let you know that you aren't alone in this. (i expect ds will be having a feed-a-thon all night again by the weekend!)

monkey

yes, am feeling post grateful for mn right now.

there are quite a few of us, eh?

i tried to post last night but my pc crashed...

franny - sorry if i offended you saying you fall into a 'trap'. I speak for myself only really. I didn't want to be brestfeeding ds2 in the night or really co-sleep either but it was something we 'fell into' for a variety of reasons. One huge reason why I fell into what I consider to be a 'trap' for me is that ds1 was in the next room and I knew that feeding ds2 was a sure why to stop him crying and get him to sleep. By the time he was an older baby, he had got into the habit of feeding to sleep in the night. Totally understand that for some people, night feeding and co-sleeping is a conscious decision, but for me it was not hence the term 'habit' and 'fell into the trap'

To those who say just stop feeding. I really feel that this is no help at all to the poster, who has outlined clearly what sort of system would suit her and her baby. If someone had responded to one of my threads a couple of months ago, I would have been distraught. I felt like a failure to begin with - everyone asking if he had slept throughm when would I stop breastfeeding him, why wouldn't I leave him to cry, etc etc etc. Sleep deprivation is truely hidious. i really appreciated all of the constructive and positive comments that I received from several MNers. I has got me through the last year. Had it not been for MN, i would be back where I was a year ago. On the verge of a breakdown.

filly - just want to say - feel free to email me off board if you want popsycal2005 at yahoo dot co dot uk
If ds2 can get to almost sleeping through (5:40 this morning...is that sleeping through?!?!), so can your little one

I can really relate to this thread. I have an 8 month old who wakes every hour(ish) every night. I BF him back to sleep. We co-sleep. I am exhausted. Sound familiar?

I went through this with my first ds. I have to admit that he was 3 before he slept through. My sister suggested, once he could understand, I pick an age (I chose 3 - it was the closest birthday) and tell him that we will stop having milk in the night at that age. Until then, I just went with it and went to bed early and slept as much as I could. At 3, he moved into his own bed (his choice) and when he woke up, I sat next to him, but did not BF him. It took three weeks, but he eventually slept through. There was very little crying involved because he was old enough to understand and I stayed with him until he slept every time. He is now 4 1/2 and is a GREAT sleeper. He is not afraid to go to bed at night. He sleeps through almost every night (unless ill, etc.). I plan to do this all again with my second one.

For what it is worth, I think you are a great mum and doing the right thing! Your child needs you as much at night as during the day. I know you are tired, but before you try anything you aren't comfortable with, think about how you will feel about all this in 5 years. Will you be happy about how you handled it? Or will you wish you had done it differently. I KNOW how tired you are - I am there, too! But they are only little for so long, then you won't get any sleep because they'll be out all night with their friends!

I would strongly recommend reading Dr Sears. He has some coping strategies for all night feeders, but mainly he supports your choice!

Sorry this is so long........

Am relating very strongly to your situ Filly - I have skimmed through the thread so I may well be repeating what other posters have written but it is always nice to hear from people in similar situations - I hope?

I am feeling a bit sorry for myself at mo as I am suffering from second bout of Mastitis in a month

I bf'd my ds (now26m) to sleep until he was 20m - then as I was 8.5m preg I broke his bed and decided it was ridiculous to continue as I knew I was going to be taken up with new baby and unable to feed him to sleep or during the night - though he was mainly sleeping through anyway so that wasn't such a problem(from about 18m) we co-slept until we moved house when he was 19m (it was a busy time!!). A couple of months after dd was born I completely stopped bf'ing ds - I found tandem feeding difficult.

In order to get him to sleep me or dh were staying in his room but sitting on the floor ignoring him (light off etc. until he slept - whenever I did it I would end up asleep as well:0

After dd was born dh was invariably putting ds to bed (while I spent all evening feeding dd!) but ds started to wake frequently and dh had too stay in his room until ds slept which meant dh was losing too much sleep so we had to get tough and do rapid return - after 2 painful weeks we got ds sleeping happily alone and he has a menagerie of toys to keep him company - he does wake far too early and he only naps during the day if I take him out in buggy - so we are far from perfect - but we have reached a managble state - I am still waking to feed dd but she is in our bed so not a problem... good luck in finding your solution - be as gradual as you need to be in introducing a change but be consistent and I think you will find a way

Just another thourght - a friend of mine has a 2 1/4 year old boy who wakes 6 to 8 times a night. He has never been BF'd and doesn't have a bottle to get back to sleep. Nightweaning may not be the answer.

Just realised that this may not be the cheering thought I initially thought it to be! I just wanted to let you know that it isn't your 'fault' for breastfeeding/responding at night!

It seems like so many people see co-sleeping and bf as a negative thing. Before having ds I probably would have said the same thing. So it strikes me that unless you have truly been in this situation, you don't really realise that it is not as simple as stopping bf or not letting dc into your bed in the first place. I didn't let ds into my bed in the first place, but learned after a while that that was the best thing for all of us. It still is the best thing for us, but that's not to say it is easy. But living with a demanding toddler isn't always easy. Sometimes I wish ds would sleep all night in his own bed. Sometimes I wish he could eat his dinner without getting food everywhere. I could probably make him do the things I want him to do, but at what cost? It's missing the point IMO. If your baby sleeps through with a lttle gentle encouragement, great, but some do need comfort at night, and there is nothing wrong with that, you haven't done anything wrong.

I can second Franny's recommendation for Mothering your Nursing Toddler; I am reading it at the moment. Also anything by Deborah Jackson always makes me feel better. Even when you believe you are doing the right thing it is easy to become demotivated when everyone around you is telling you to stop bf. If anything bf makes the job easier, and I think giving up at this age would be a nightmare. What you really want is for someone to say you're doing a good thing for your dc, along with the acknowledgement that it is bloody hard work looking after a high need child. (I am always happy to lend a supportive ear btw )

Oh superb post Tatties

Sorry if I got a bit stroppy last night popsy, I just felt like everyone was saying breastfeeding at night was always a mistake, something that everyone wishes they could stop, etc. I know you were just talking about your own situation.

Filly I was thinking about your Velcro-ness today and you know I think you must be comparing yourself with non attachmenty type families, because you are really not the worst case of Velcro-baby I have known at all. Not by a long shot.

But you are doing a fantastic job of something that is very difficult, really, you are.

Oh my sodding comedy name

It's F&Z, sorry

Hey, Filly, ALL my babies were born with velcro but the bristly bits get full of fluff eventually and they don't stick so much. Or atall.
Am thinking of you. As I lay in bed last night, annoyingly unable to sleep when all smalls were peaceful, I thought of something that I was going to say to you. Buggered if I can remember it now

at the ever sanguine tick

at tatties and her superb post (not suburb post, as I just wrote and deleted)

and at Momoftwo and the lovely support

and at jelly and at the mastitis-this is another difficulty, I keep getting mastitis and it is, for me, cleared only by antibiotics, which I am not comfortable with.

and at popsy who I want to email very soon.

and thanks so much for these many stories, it makes such a difference to know its not just me. I am going to ride it out I think. But it is not straightforward. We are home educating also and I need to drive to faff ds about to his far flung friends.

was wondering about a sleepless and proud of it support thread. Cos this has helped me such a lot. Anyone else up for it? We can all whinge about our tired lives. If there is any interest I will set it up and link from this thread? (or someone else can, am not pta type at all but everyone has been so kind)

to you all

Freudian slip eh Filly?

I would definitely be up for a sleepless and proud thread; sometimes you just need someone to moan at, someone who understands, then everything's alright again for a little while.

Filly, could you forgiveme for whispering ever so quietly....homoeopathy....

Would definitely be up for a sleepless/proud thread. Currently sleepless with ds (5 weeks) ...

right

will sort it tonite

am debating title though

for all who lack sleep but especially those who are extended bf and not going to do cc? Fair? Have I inadvertantly excluded anyone that way? We can all just pop on when we want to and whinge.

Tick, I found an article recently in New Scientist which I think gives creedance to the memory of water thing. I think. Do you want me to bung it your way? Do you mind if I CAT you?

(do not think that is how you spell creedance, think this is the all around my hat sort of creedance but anyway)

oOH YES PLEASE, fILLY (ahem, I will stop shouting now) I'd be v. interested - all power to my evangelism and all that
Aren't CATs expensive? I know ours is, what with flea allergies and all. My email is: [email protected]
Oh, part of what I was going to suggest t'other day was lying your dd on a small quilt - not too firmbut not too squashy - that will sort of mould to her body shape a bit so that when she "falls off the nork" she doesn't roll at all. Or you could prop her from behind with foldednappies or something.
I was alsogoing to sayeat lots of dark green stuff and vitamin c and chocolate cake. Will make you feelmore able to cope. Especially the cake. Fruit cake too.In fact, perhaps one could design an entire system of medicine/psychology based solely on different types of cake. Homemade, organic and animal-free of course

have mailed you tick

hmmm

actually that would probably work re the wedge

you need not worry re the eating of cake, I have that covered