the no-cry sleep solution

[iris66]

has anyone tried it? (book by Elizabeth Pantley) I'm on day 2 & looking for a bit of support as I know it's going to take time. I'm dying through sleep depravation with 8mth DS who bfs to sleep but is very very tricky to move so have been cosleeping whilst he fidgets & kicks all night(and power naps during the day)
Think this is the last chance saloon before ear plugs & leaving him to get hysterical (even though I know that won't happen - i just couldn't, he really does do the whole temper, then sad then hysteria/shaking/terror/I've been abandoned thing - even if DH goes to him - such a mummy's boy)
Anyway, please post if you've been successful with this [hopeful emoticon]

I'm struggling badly at the moment with ds's terrible cold - really hardly slept last night and will only nap upright in his sling - fine for him, but where's my rest!? Hopefully he will get better soon and we can get back on track.

Iris, best of luck with the game plan - I often take ds to co-sleep in the spare bed (a big double futon) so he gets used to sleeping with me but further away, problem is I'm not consistent because I miss dh and our bed, so can't say if it works... Danceswithbaby - midwives suggested co-sleeping to me too, on night one! Ds was keeping the whole postnatal ward awake I think.

Sorry I'm not engaging better with everyone's experiences - I really have never been this sleep deprived in my life, it is challenging to say the least!

bikebug hope your lo cold gets better soon!have you tried raising his head slightly at night so he can breath better,just put folded towel or something under matress?it worked wonders with dd and ds1.also we used to dissolve a teaspoon of vicks in bowl of boiling water and put it in room.just ideas as i can know how hard it is to get any sleep with poorly child!

hi everyone had 2 nights of so so sleep Friday and Saturday, on the good side DD2 has gone to sleep without a BF on 2 occasions (don't count in the car she always falls asleep in the car), bad points she always seems to wake just as I'm going to sleep. I think we had BFs at 11, 1 and 5ish last night.

Finally I have my copy of NCSS and have read about half of it so far, sounds good and am up for it! Am going to start sleep logs tomorrow. Have decided not to move her into her own room to start with, we have a bedside cot which is up against my side of the bed usually she starts the night in there then whichever side she is feeding from she feeds and stays there. I am going to try and not fall asleep before she has finished feeding and move her back across to her cot. Will have to try and stay awake like Pantley says to do the pull off method. Plan is to start with her in her cot which shouldn't be too difficult as she is used to it then in a month put the side back up then move it away from me gradually then into her room, with me and then without me.

Other things that worry me are: DD1 and toddler groups we go Mon, Tues and Weds, out the house from 9ish to 12ish, sometimes DD2 grizzles, has a BF and a sleep whilst we are there sometimes not, don't know how this is going to affect the 2 nap stategy?

I usually BF DD2 downstairs then carry her upstairs to her cot during the day because I need to keep an eye on DD1 don't have the luxury of being able to BF her lying down. Although will be able to give her her final BF of the day upstairs in peace and quiet.

Going to start the lovey thing asap, DD1 loves her "ninny" to bits she gives DD2 hers as well.

Hopefully I will be able to work around these things. Will of course keep you all updated.

Bikebug - hope your DS is feeling better soon and you get some sleep, can you nap during the day? Twice this weekend DP has told me to go upstairs and have a lie down but I just can't switch off enough to sleep.

moljam - fingers crossed for you that DS's good sleeping continues

Iris - glad you are getting the daytime naps sorted as well

danceswithbaby - I think it's got a lot to do with each individual baby, my two DDs are chalk and cheese when it comes to everything so far especially sleep, DD1 co-slept from day 1 but was sleeping from 11-6am at 6 weeks, 7-6am at 12 weeks waking for a BF at 6am going back to sleep until 8.30-9am! At 12 months she never got up for that early morning BF and as we were down to one feed by then that was the end of BFing for us. So you can imagine the shock to the system when DD2 came along, non sleeping, always wanting milk madam that she is! I adore cosleeping and in an ideal world would have a huge bed for the two DDs, DP and I (and of course a little "special" bed just for DP and I (DD2 was actually "made" on a futon on the spare room as DD1 was still cosleeping at that point) but they just become too active in their sleep and you end up being kicked and punched all night long and no one gets any sleep. With DD1 this was when we decided she needed a bed of her own.

Better go DD2 has just awoken (first time from 8)

sweetkitty,ive not read ncss yet,am going away on friday so waiting till i get back before buying (am having a selfish mummy weeekend away!)you mentioned getting your lo in cot and gradually moving away,what if cosleeping?does she suggest moving them away?

i.e. maniac grin from 2 hideous or should i say challenging nights!cant even read sleep log from last night as wrote it on wrong side of scrap paper - all over bank statement!also whilst we have been away last week has learnt to crawl as we forgot to take her chair...sleep deprived packing is bad.anyway nothing is safety proofed so couldnt even lie on floor next to her while she played today[very tired face].

i love the sound of the bedside cot sweetkitty, i really wanted one but in old house had no space at sides of bed. the moving further away slowly sounds great.
bikebug my DD has just had bad snots week, every morning she has come in the shower with me, i have got shower room as steamy as poss beforehand and it really helps.i also used a lot of calpol cos she was so miserable.oh and the sterile saline nose drops.i think you can prop ends of cot up on yello pages to help sinus drainage.
iris - i love being an insomnialc, its such a fitting term!i love my late night chilling time, keeps me sane.

DDs comforter has arrived courtesy of e bay so am going to put it in our bed for a few nights first, have high hopes for this teddy attached to blanket thingy!at least have back up as NCSS book should arrive so can put all hopes on that next! what to do when all ideas run out

moljam - she has suggestions for whatever you want to do going forward whether it be cosleeping, own cot, own room, BFing, bottlefeeding, dummy or no dummy. DD2 is used to sleeping in her cot for part of the night, she usually starts off in there then ends up next to me on whatever side I am feeding her on. But she is such a wriggler that it's disrupting DP and I's sleep so we feel it's time for her to go it alone in her own bed. We will start off next to me but the plan is over time we will put her further apart then finally into her own room to sleep throughout the night

Last night was a good night all in all, after that stirring I gave her a 5 min BF and that was her until 5am this morning, felt a bit more human this morning as well. Would be delighted with just a 5am wakening for a feed.

Hiya everyone, especially newbies. Well this old NCSS is certainly testing my resilience! its bloody hard work. I settled down on sat night for the x factor (as I've discovered the brain cannot function beyond very low levels of activity when one is sleep deprived) only be back up again no not once, not twice but 6 times. When I checked the clock and seen it was only 9.30pm I thought sod it I might as well go to bed too if this is how its going to be all night. It actually calmed down with DD only waking another 4-5 times I think. It all becomes one big blur after a while.
Poor soul bikebug, you sound in need of some TLC, all I can say is you are certainly surrounded by people who understand on this thread.
Iris I agree with you philosophy - don't look back, so onwards and upwards.
Incidently on the upside I think the unlatching thingie is working verrrrrrrry gradually, DD actually has started to sleep sometimes without sucking which I think is MAJOR and the key to her learning to go back to sleep on her own, so stick with it girls. Also the wakenings are shorter even if there are still too many, like some of you other co-sleepers I wonder if my DD is one of the 'special cases' when she cannot possibly be expected to sleep with mummy, smell the milk and resist a nibble - maybe we need to try using the cot all night

Iris and Sweetkitty, thanks for feedback. Your dd1's sound like the sort of baby I was expecting to have. She was supposed to lay in her crib kicking and gurgling while I whafted around the house vacuuming, in high heels and full make up.

Moljam, I hope you had a great weekend away. That's just what I could do with. The same as I could do with a third arm and detatchable boobs.... Ain't going to happen!

Hello! Am totally new to mumsnet so not sure exactly what to do but gonna give it a try! Needing some ideas/advice for our desperate evening situation! My baby is 4 and half months old. He's doing mostly really well - has good naps in the day and settles well at 10pm and usually sleeps through until 7am. Our big problem is the evening time. He's obviously tired, but after a sleep of about 30-45 mins at 7pm, he will wake up and cry until we pick him up and cuddle him to sleep. Am pretty sure it's not colic as tried just holding him for about 5 evenings in a row and he slept soundly and he also sleeps all evening if we are travelling in the car anywhere. Also have ruled out hunger and don't think wind. In the past he has managed to get himself into a routine of sleeping in the evenings, but as soon as we spend the evening somewhere else (eg at a friends with him in the travel cot) he goes back to his old routine of crying most of the evening again for a couple of weeks until sleep routine sets in again. Help! Have totally run out of ideas! THANKYOU!!

Last night as follows (after good 2 1/2 hour nap in the daytime)
7.10pm fell asleep in DP's arms after being really restless after her bath (don't think she has ever fallen asleep on DP)
7.40pm took her upstairs she woke had BF, was almost asleep then woke up and didn't fall asleep until 8.50pm
11.15pm woke BF back to sleep
1.00am woke rubbed back fell back asleep
3.15am woke BF back to sleep
6.05 woke BF back to sleep
7.30am up for the day

So far today she has only had a 50 minute nap, this is supposed to be far too little for a 9 month old. Will see how tonight fairs.

DWB - I agree it was so good with DD1 that at 9 months I was like "great lets have another" but it's true you never get two the same. DD1 doesn't eat much though and likes nothing, DD2 refuses nothing so far so they all have their good and bad points. Just as well they are so lovely when they are awake makes all the no sleeping worth it.

HBO - welcome to the thread, sounds like your LO is like a lot of babies, their sleep goes in cycles and when they reach a cycle that's just below wakening they wake up (unlike adults who just doze off again). If he falls asleep on you nice and cosy then wakes up an hour later he's wondering where you are. Hope that makes sense (v sleep deproved today) we are all following a book called No cry sleep solution fingers crossed it is going to work for us all.

Hi Sweetkitty. That does make sense! Will check out the book you suggest, Thanks!

and no wine tonight asbeen to gym and always very healthy for first evening after. we had the best night for us in weeks last night, woke 12.30am BF bk to sleep, then 3.15 bf but woke up when put her back in cot so rubbed back for 15mins (felt like hours) then woke and grizzled for 15mins at 6am but ent bk to sleep until 8am, hurrah!cant imagine why it happened as didnt do anything gd yesterday!have been to music class and head over heels today so hoping she is a bit tired [head turning to watch pigs fly by].

danceswithbabies,thanks,havent gone yet,going first thing friday.have you not seen special offer on spare arms in asda?
last night was BAD ,by midnight i lost count of how many times id been up.ds has cold though(just in time to make me feel guilty about going away)so we just cuddled and patted alnight.dh slept through and complained when i woke him at 6 so i could have hour in bed,i wasnt very polite to him.!now tired and ds is grumpy(poor man) and dd is sick and off school.only ds1 in good mood this morning.

Another bad one last night

bed 7.30pm (after 50 min nap all day yesterday so she was exhausted)
8.30 up patted back back to sleep
9.15 up patted back back to sleep
11.15 up patted back for 30 mins then too exhausted so BF her
12ish up patted back back to sleep
1ish same
3 BF
6 BF
up at 8 this morning

argh it's horrendous but on the positive side sometimes she doesn't need boob to go back to sleep

Last night of sleep logs tonight then we can start on "THE PLAN"

How's everyone else doing? I want to hear success stories

Sweetkitty it sounds like you're really making progress!! yay

Been a funny few days here. DS now sleeps better but is coming in with me earlier (9ish) He only woke briefly a couple of times last night and I managed to shush & pat him to sleep on one of those. He's seriously snotty though & has a new tooth through with another on the way imminently (top ones either side of the front two)so I'm not pushing too hard on things.

Daytime naps are brill though!!! he slept from 1015 - 12.30 today and woke up so happy. I'm sure this is making a difference.

momomama - it is a real slowly slowly isn't it but if the wake ups are shorter then eventually they'll disappear I'm sure.

for those of you who cosleep,where and how do your lo nap?ds sleeps on me,should i put him in bed?should i lay with him?

moljam - if I'm home I tend to wimp out & bf him to sleep then put him in his pram (keep meaning to put him in his cot but haven't got round to it yet) He'll go off if I take him for a walk or if we're in the car too.

I got his naps longer by bf him to sleep in bed with me & staying with him & relatching as soon as he stirred. I then moved on to letting him sleep on me downstairs & then shushing/rocking as soon as he stirred to make him drop off again. It took a couple of weeks or so to get him used to sleeping longer but (fingers crossed) it seems to have worked. HTH

Just here to add solidarity! Have you tried putting him down (awake) when he shows signs of tiredness (whinging, pulling ears, rubbing eyes etc) with a little routine eg putting a musical toy/mobile on, giving him a fave toy to cuddle etc and break the feed=sleep cycle.

Not sure if it's safe to pop my head round the door here, being one of the smug 7-7'ers from the January thread (altho Lola's always been more of an 8-8'er! waves to Iris & SK & wtwta
Having caught croup at the weekend Lola's sleep pattern has gone a bit haywire the last few days, so I'm searching for solutions to nip it in the bud.
She goes to sleep fine after her bath and bottle as always, but is waking again up to an hour later and is impossible to settle. She's only been having a couple of short naps during the day, and not settling to sleep properly til after midnight. Today I put her in her cot at the first sign of post-lunch tiredness, and she slept for 3 hours!! Really hoping this'll make her easier to settle tonight.

Hi Guys,

Well, I've done the ten day log and haven't seen much improvement. I'm certainly not always organised about the naps and feel like I haven't really implemented the plan as I should have. I do think that I've had some sucess with diminishing the suck to sleep association (Boobmerchant)and developing key words. No sucess with the lovey though. Perishing Ee-eaw!

Well, maybe my webmoaning helped but he slept from 7.30pm to 4.45am last night. THAT'S 9.15 HOURS IN TOTAL.....I've been leaping around the living in glee as I had AT LEAST 6 HOURS of interupted sleep for the first time in about 5 months. Maybe this no cry thing is not so bad after all. How's everyone else doing today????

Difers - yay!!!!! success!!! congratulations!!!!

DS has been waking fewer times and for a much shorter time over the past 2/3 days and not "getting up" until 7am which is fab. Still co-sleeping most of the night though which I'm hoping to knock on the head very soon, especially as he's happy to nap without me bf him now (3 hours in total yesterday )

Hope everyone else is making progress too

wherethewildthingsare / BBWBabeLisa - thanks for the support guys

Difers, that is so great. It was just what I needed to hear after yet another awful night. I was just resigning myself to another 10 years of the same

I've finally started the sleep log. I know I'm already 11 days in but it's taken me that long to find a pen...

Moljam, DD has always napped on me until now. Since I re-started with the NCSS I've been putting her in our bed for her long nap (with guards and pillows all round). I make sure I'm there when I'm expecting her to come round, usually half an hour in, then bf her down again. So far it's worked and she's had one nap for at least an hour in bed on her own, every day for 10 days.

I can't see her EVER napping or sleeping without bf though. She's started to do this pathetic cty/whimper now, if I try to remove it before she's ready.

Hi all, I'm just emerging from the world of ds's first real cold: the poor little chap is soooo snotty and has a hoarse little cry now that is heartwrenching... Anyway, just wanted to report some good news on the sleeping front (sweetkitty - a sucess story!) - we're getting much, much better evenings now (he only woke once between 8 and 11 yesterday, used to be every 45 mins...), and only once more in the night. And the night before was the same.

Now I have a dilemma - what is doing this?

Could it be the compulsory naps - into the cot every morning for nap (1), resettled if he wakes within an hour, plus an hour long walk with the pram every afternoon which seems to be the only way to get him to have nap (2)and may even help with my baby-flab. BTW moljam, even though we co-sleep at night ds is OK in the cot in the day. No idea why!

Or could it be the calpol he's been getting each evening!?

I'm hoping it's the nap regime, but at the moment I'm prepared to give him calpol every evening until he is 6 if that is what is doing this!

Next Tuesday I have my first evening out since ds (now 7 months) was born, really hoping I can get him settled regularly in the evenings as his dada will be taking over .

Iris and Difers, just wanted to say yaaaay! to you and may your sucess and sleepy nights continue . Danceswithbaby, it will change, it will it will. Ds just started pushing me away one day - decided he didn't want feeding back to sleep, and we started with back rubs instead. All this will pass... (((hugs)))