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How heavy was your baby when he/she first slept for 8hours straight?

332 replies

Handsoff7 · 19/07/2014 12:23

My DD is 4.5months old but was 2 months early and small for dates so still only weighs around 10lbs.

She sleeps well but her limit is about 6hours at night. I suspect this is size related. Books and other posts generally talk about ages which is hard to interpret in my case.

How heavy were yours when they could go for a whole night?

Thanks for the help

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
duchesse · 25/07/2014 17:40

Self-settling absolutely is an achievement. It's possibly THE most satisfying achievement ever,

Yes. Yes of course it is. Way up there above them being kind spontaneously, learning to read or getting their first real friend.

thisvelvetglove · 25/07/2014 17:45

On planet greedy, duchesse....

perfectstorm · 25/07/2014 17:48

any of the other accusations that anti-routine hysterics like to throw at sensible mums.

You know something? I've been deleted on MN about 4 or 5 times in almost a decade. One of those times was defending a mother who chose to use routines, against vitriol from someone calling her abusive for doing it. She had every damn right to parent as she chose, as felt right to her, and as suited her family, and nobody had the right to snipe and sneer at her because of it. A mother whose sleep deprivation causes depression isn't doing the best for her baby, either, and children can and do thrive under strict routines. But your attitude on your posts here is every bit as unpleasant as the women you are so spitefully mocking, and I've not seen anyone post like that on the other side yet. The one posting with arrogance and disrespect is you. People who respond to their babies' cues at once as the research currently indicates is best for the baby, if they can cope with the sleeplessness themselves, are perfectly sensible - not to mention unselfish. Obviously a mother who needs sleep, or who feels unable to parent differently due to her own temperament, is doing it right for her circumstances. Happy, settled children can result, which is all that matters, and they'll result from parents who adopt a parenting strategy and style that suits their instincts, as long as those instincts are loving and sensible. But let's be clear: a baby isn't crying for fun. They aren't crying because they want to control you. They are crying because they are a small infant mammal wanting comfort, food, or drink - or all three - and in denying them that in order to prioritise your own sleep, you're on desperately shaky ground in judging other people.

I see no reason why mothers should be martyrs. If they can't cope with sleeplessness and need to manage things so they can function, then that's still doing the best for their baby. But attacking people who, for whatever reason, are able to cope with sleeplessness in order to meet the baby's very early needs are hardly lacking sense, and it's deeply unpleasant to seek to justify your own parenting choices by attacking theirs in the manner you have. I do hope you plan to be more flexible when the small people you are bringing into this world express views and opinions that differ from your own, or this start will be the very least of everyone's problems.

It's so depressing that women are so insecure in their own choices that they comfort themselves by attacking women who choose differently. My kids are happy and settled, so I must be doing okay. People who parent very differently - both ends of the spectrum - are also doing okay. My way is to respond immediately and lovingly, day or night, until around 18 months when I slowly implement self-settling, sleeping alone, firmness around bedtimes and silent returns to bed if they get up. It works. By preschool, DS had a set bedtime we kept to almost all the time (as in, not if there was a wedding or a major family birthday) and slept in his own bed. He wakes at night sometimes and wants a cuddle, but that is okay. It's what he needs - he's never been trying it on. And very recently he was diagnosed as high functioning, but on the autistic spectrum, so his sleep issues are indeed biological in nature and it's just as well I respected them and didn't try to force his little square sleep needs into a nice book-advocated round hole. DD, on the other hand, is almost 6 months and slept through from tiny. Goes down at 8, stays down till a 5 am feed, then up at 8. Did that from 5 or 6 weeks old. She has different needs, because she is a different child. And if you think swallowing and regurgitating one single book, with the experience of less than a half year of motherhood behind you, therefore entitles you to lecture all other mothers on How To Do It Right, then frankly your posts sound deeply gullible. Kids are people, you see. They vary. So do their needs, their temperaments and their responses to your parenting. And while some kids thrive on routines, others become desperately distressed and will cry until they vomit - and yes, there are books that approve of that and say "this is when you must not give in!" An Australian friend of mine raves about that (unqualified, self-appointed) "expert" on babies and adopted all the methods advocated, and honestly, I think creating helplessness in a tiny baby and the conviction that crying is pointless, because nobody will come... that's not okay. That's my opinion. I'm not going to judge anyone for choosing otherwise because at this time God's not popped down from on high to assure me I'm doing everything right, and people can opt to do as they think fit. But honestly - why would I put myself through night waking with my kids if they need it if I didn't think that best? And therefore, how can I or mothers who parent as you do in good conscience say they think your choices are right? We can't. All we can do is say we can see the pluses for all concerned, and that we are sure you in turn are doing as you think best.

I'm equally strongly in favour of sleep routines and set bedtimes for children, btw. There is a lot of evidence on the harm sleep deprivation does children, and how much less sleep they get than we did as kids. I just don't see how you can possibly apply that to a baby. It's a biological nonsense. Stupid, in fact.

Sleep training is for parental convenience. If a saner parent results than baby-led sleep, sure that can be really good for the baby. But please cut the sanctimonious codswallop - it isn't a superior form of parenting. It's as good, at best. My cousin was, rather entertainingly, like you when she had her first (though her manners were light years better than those displayed on your posts, I do have to say!). She would gently and smugly suggest I parented as she did, because her baby did X, Y and Z. Her second has stopped her doing that. Oh boy, has her second stopped her doing that! Grin You don't seem to grasp that your baby is not an extension of you. Your baby is their own little individual. It's not Me, A Mother. It's Me And Baby. A duet, not a solo. And your baby's patterns of behaviour may be innate and not down to how you parent at all, I'm afraid. Stubborn things, small humans.

Finally, giving water to an exclusively breastfed baby instead of milk, prior to weaning, is bloody stupid, and if your advocated book says that then it's straightforwardly wrong. Pointless and unnecessary risk. Bedsharing has advantages to all concerned to weigh against the risk (which I personally think is too great - my baby sleeps in her grobag, in her cot, as advised). Water instead of milk has none. Can't fathom how anyone could think following some barmy book rather than decent medical advice is a good idea. Sounds more like a religion than childcare. Which may of course explain your exceedingly aggressive and combative style of posting.

thisvelvetglove · 25/07/2014 17:55

We're talking babies and toddlers here really, not school age DC.

Quoting extremes again like the ten night wakings.

Obviously DC going to school our even pre school benefit from being properly rested.

StillWishihadabs · 25/07/2014 18:12

But this velvet babies do need long stretches of uninterrupted sleep to develop and grow ask any SCBU nurse.

thisvelvetglove · 25/07/2014 18:15

What do you consider a long stretch and how do rubbish sleeping babies ever grow into giant toddlers?

GreedyBitch · 25/07/2014 18:22

Perfect, I'm afraid I stopped reading your post after a while. I'm not being horrible, but in this heat it was just too long. I am incredulous to read, however, that you feel I am the one on this thread being offensive. Did you read Duchesses initial posts? Of course I am going to become defensive in the face of that kid of accusation. Routine-setting is exceptionally hard work and yes - there are no medals for 'winning'. My posts did take on an imperious tone and I regret that. I hate getting into these kinds of emotive debates and to be accused of allowing my baby to sink into 'misery'; 'screaming' and 'becoming hoarse' with exhaustion is entirely provocative and without truth.

The water issue, too, got out of hand and some posters were being deliberately disingenuous in understanding the context of what I was saying. Babies above 8lb who are otherwise sated and waking out of habit can be offered cool boiled water, on occasion, in the night. This is not the same as withholding milk. To withhold milk when a baby is genuinely hungry is nothing short of cruel. When my baby has taken 30oz of formula and the last feed was only at 11pm, if she wakes at 2am I know she is not hungry. On these (rare) occasions I offer the water. She only takes a few gulps and goes back to sleep, waking for breakfast at 7am. If she continued to wake, crying, I would, of course, assume the cause was genuine hunger and feed her.

Velvet, I really am genuinely sorry I got under your skin Thanks

StillWishihadabs · 25/07/2014 18:35

By long stretches I mean 3-8 hours I suppose. A baby who hasn't slept 3 hours between feeds will be fractious and importantly find it difficult to feed properly at the next feed. 8 hours is as long as prem babies go between "cares". I know how I feel if I haven't a decent stretch of sleep (probrably 6 hours for me). Humans have sleep cycles which are 45 minutes long babies need to learn how to link them. It takes 3 or 4 cycles before the deepest stage of sleep is achieved, after that we spend more time in dream sleep but those first 4 uninterrupted hours are very important for neurodevelopment.

MrTumblesBavarianFanbase · 25/07/2014 18:41

Stillwish SCBU may be a special case, but from personal experience my DD, who woke frequently til she was 2, met all her milestones very early (sat up at 4 months, walked at 9 months, talking in clear multi word sentences by 18 months, knew all her letters and what letter words started with soon after), but her brother, who never woke as often and slept through by 7 months was pretty average with all his pre-2 milestones. DS2 still doesn't sleep through but is big for his age and average to ahead on most things.

thisvelvetglove · 25/07/2014 18:45

Thanks greedy, I must admit I'm genuinely surprised at your post there.

I kinda had you down as someone on the wind up tbh!

I'm not sure if its different when bf, as 'how much they've had' isn't really a consideration.

And I'm still curious about the arbitrary 8 lb cutoff you quote? My friend's baby was well over 10 lb at birth, where does he fit in?

thisvelvetglove · 25/07/2014 18:51

still wish I think your scbu experience is a lot different.

Full term babies feed a lot more often than 3 hours and are fine and not necessarily fractious! :)

StillWishihadabs · 25/07/2014 18:58

I have looked after lots of term babies too (I have 2) I maintain that all babies should be encourage to have a least one really decent length (3-4 hours)sleep every 24 hours from birth and that this can be extended to 6 hours by 6 weeks or so.

thisvelvetglove · 25/07/2014 19:09

Based on what reasoning?

thisvelvetglove · 25/07/2014 19:12

(sorry, pedantic)

StillWishihadabs · 25/07/2014 19:13

As I explained as sleep cycles are linked deep sleep (theta wave sleep) is achieved this is deeper sleep and thought to be essential for neuro development and memory functions. Do you really think the opposite ? That babies do just fine without one episode of deep sleep in a 24 hour period ?

StillWishihadabs · 25/07/2014 19:15

Anyway very few adults can cope well longterm without a reasonable stretch of uninterrupted sleep so presumably this is good for most parents.

thisvelvetglove · 25/07/2014 19:26

I understand what you're saying about sleep cycles, but it's a temporary thing for babies to wake often, no?

GreedyBitch · 25/07/2014 19:38

I wouldn't offer any newborn baby -regardless of its weight - cool boiled water under any circumstances. A newborn baby needs to feed every three hours or so and therefore can always be presumed to be genuinely hungry.

thisvelvetglove · 25/07/2014 20:58

But can you see how picking a weight means nothing? It still seems arbitrary.

8 lb to me is an average newborn anyway.I had one born just under 8 lb and one who weighed that at about a week old!

GreedyBitch · 25/07/2014 21:04

I think the advice on weight is a warning that, if you are going to consider offering cooled boiled water to your (not newborn) baby, then it needs to be a decent weight, otherwise there is a chance that you are actually replacing essential milk. Am I making sense?

thisvelvetglove · 25/07/2014 21:07

(also every three hours isn't very often for a newborn Wink )

fledermaus · 25/07/2014 21:08

I don't understand your advice on weight/age either. So a 10lb newborn shouldn't be offered water but a 10lb 8? 12? week old shouldn't be fed at night?

PenguinsHatchedAnEgg · 25/07/2014 21:15

How would I work out a decent weight for my babies though. They were all over that at birth. Two of them significantly. Confused

thisvelvetglove · 25/07/2014 21:44

I can see what you're trying to say greedy, but unfortunately it's still not logical. As you can see from the above comments. :)

Handsoff7 · 26/07/2014 03:23

Sorry for not coming back for a while - although I'd not like to get into a Gina Ford debate as they tend to get heated!

To respond to a few queries: my baby is on a routine and has been since birth (NICU routine initially) and we've been extending the sleep part of the night as she's getting bigger.

She's just had a night feed after sleeping a solid 7 hours so fingers crossed an 8 hour stretch should be possible soon. Based on the bulk of posts 10-12 lbs is needed from a size perspective but isn't the only factor and for those with large babies is probably never a factor.

Some have suggested co-sleeping . The guidelines have indicated that it is high risk for low birthweight or premature babies. She was both and was happily sleeping in a cot before we got her home so this is not going to be an opti

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