Misery loves company: to ride it out or Something Must be Done- pick your camp :)

[DreamingOfAFullNightsSleep]

Hello again all- may the sleepers continue sleeping, the new arrivals due or here get the idea very quickly and the rest of us see the light at the end of the tunnel!

Wow...what a different experience an ELCS is to an EMCS.

DS2 arrived safely and without complications around midday today, weighing 9lb 6.5oz - 4.5oz more than DS1 so VBAC would have been a total non-starter. Feeding like an absolute champ. TOTALLY going to be a sleeper

Fabulous news! Congratulations Elph! And welcome to the world, miniElph2! May the sleep fairies sprinkle their dust liberally over your crib. :)

I have not had the energy to post (and may have briefly lost my mind this morning after another sleepless night followed by two and a half solid hours of whining by DS, and then being kicked and scratched for 50 minutes before he managed a half-hour nap) but I am put to shame by you Total Warriors and freshly delivered mothers. We have started on a plan by Ann, which is keeping my hope alive.

I never thought to lie about DS being a sleeper. Terribly ill-mannered of me, but don't other sleep-deprived people need to explain why they are unable to engage in anything but the bare necessities? In between running obstacle courses and giving birth, that is.

Pfft...lying on an operating table, getting ribbed about Australia's second placing on the Commonwealth Games medal table while the sun streamed in the window and Louis Armstrong played on the radio was a doddle.

I'm still shaking my head about doing Total Warrior with three tiny kids and broken sleep. I bet she does Tough Mudder just to prove a point

Whoop! Glad it al went well Elph and welcome minielph the second. :o

dreaming reading your post has just exhausted me so much I think I might need another early night to recover. I'm afraid I'm not one of nature's sportswomen. This probably explains why I am 5"5' and can't even imagine weighing anything close to 8 stone 10. :)

DD seems to have suddenly clicked with the potty training and we are down to only maybe having one accident a day if that (hurrah!). Going out is still a bit traumatic as she is terrified of hand driers so she won't use a public toilet.

whoop whoop! Congratulations elph that's lovely! I thought it was the 4th you were booked in but haven't had a chance to mn before now. Really lovely news. Totally bred a sleeper. No doubts.

Yeah, those bloody bloody hand dryers. All mine are afraid of them.

One of our total warrior team (who has a dd 4 weeks younger than mine who's an erratic sleeper and first slept through aged 3) and a 10 month old baby who doesn't sleep well is trying to talk us into a hideous sounding obstacle course type race in Manchester involving lots of canal plunges in November. Not feeling keen. November, dunkings in canals, yuck. I should have done the Tough Mudder- walking distance from my house and it was gorgeously sunny not pissong down with rain like the one we did was

Yeah, you should have Dreaming, you lazy mare

I might be getting confused anyway elph , think it was the Badass Mudder by us- or is it the same thing?!

Have you had a restful night with your newly arrived, definitely-will-sleep baby? I hope so. not that you'll care last night, too busy being delighted with him I'm sure.

peregrin hope your journey with Ann is successful. The exhaustion is awful. I feel a bit tired after 3 wake up last night when I couldn't get to sleep til after he first woke at midnight. Reading your post reminded me how bad it used to be. it was shit

We had screamy cluster-feeding for several hours here last night. Left me in despair with DS1. Totally used to it with DS2.

They now send you home the day after a c-section So home today, which is nice I suppose as I feel fine and want to get back to DS1, but I was a bit shocked when they sent the girl in the bed next to me home the day after a crash section under GA with her first baby.

I was also rather when, on discharge, the girl on the other side of me was offered a bottle of pre-mixed formula to take home with her, despite having BFed entirely for the duration of her admission 'in case she finds it too much'. Are they seriously allowed to do that in the NHS? They'll get a stern lecture on nipple confusion and affecting supply if they try that with me.

Massive congratulations Elph! And hello miniElph markII! Glad to hear all went well and 9lb 6.5oz?! Blimey! I thought DD2 was a chunky one at 8 lb 15 oz (especially compared to DD1 who was 7 lb 5!).

He is definitely going to have this sleeping thing licked. Maybe he'll be a magic baby that STTN from 6 weeks old and you can enjoy a bit of smugness for once! Still waiting for DD2 to turn into one of those….

at the hospital and pushing formula, thats not exactly supportive of bf is it? We have similar here though, one MWL unit where I had DD1 - unicef baby-friendly hospital, totally bf-supportive (and who were so amazing with DD1 who wouldn't latch that I stayed in for 5 days!), happy with bed-sharing etc - and a consultant led maternity unit where all babies seem to come home having had at least some formula, whether there was the slightest struggle with breastfeeding, blood-salt levels and god knows what other reasons. Makes me really that they are not supporting mums who want to exclusively bf. Most carried on mixed feeding as it totally buggered up their supply before it was established.

Dreaming, well done on the event sounds like complete torture but has all this lack of sleep sent you crazy? I can't believe you would even be contemplating something that involves jumping into canals! In November! I'm with you Hear, exercise is something that happens accidentally while chasing DD1 around.

Peregrin sorry to hear things are sounding so awful but its great that you're starting with Ann, looking forward to hearing how things get on as might have to do something with DD2 at some point. She's about to move from the bedside crib into the big cot and not sure how that will go as it means actually having to get out of bed in the night instead of just sleepily attaching her to boob and dozing off again for a bit until I wake up and realise she is still on my chest and try and put her back in the crib without waking her which usually fails

Thanks, Hear!

Elphaba - many congratulations! Gotta love the ELCS. I lazed around and refused to leave for 3 nights after mine, but as they wouldn't do it on the NHS I thought I might as well make the most of the excellent drugs and very useful cup-of-tea call button included in the deal...

Peregrin - I'll be interested to hear how you get on with Ann. She's closed to new business for now, but I'm thinking of signing up soon.

Do they really send you home the next day? When I had dd they all got in a terrible state when I announced I would be leaving the next day (it was dhs birthday and I was fed up of hospital food). I had hoards of doctors looking all concerned and midwives trying to make me stay another night.

I wasn't even a particularly terrible birth in the grand scheme of things, not as if I'd had my abdomen sliced open. My friend stayed in 4 nights just because she wanted to I think. It seems to vary wildly from hospital to hospital what support you get after the birth

Just had a hideous bedtime with dd. I am really starting to feel stuck now. We just can't get past the standing out side the door stage, and it is increasing involving screaming.

Hear, really sorry to hear about bedtime issues with your DD. Sounds like she is a stubborn little miss!! Have you thought about a reward chart? I haven't tried one yet but am thinking of doing stickers for potty training as DD1 loves them.

Things I find helpful with DD1 are bedtime stories on a cd and her stars projector - I had a music and lights one when she was small but I think it was too stimulating. Tried again when she was bigger and she just kept turning it back on again. And again. And again. And again. Until we were all driven mad by the horrible tinny music.

Now she has one of these www.amazon.co.uk/Ladybird-star-projector-night-light/dp/B001V6Q6T6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1407315871&sr=8-1&keywords=ladybird+star+projector

It stays on for 40 minutes so actually gives her a chance to fall asleep before turning off and if she wakes in the night she can turn it back on herself and it seem to reassure her. Am thinking of getting another one for DD2.

From what you've said about your DD being very verbal Hear maybe a rewards chart would work? DS1 would just throw a paddy demanding 'STICKS!' (stickers)

Non-screamy night for DS2's first night at home, thank goodness. Co-slept with boobs in his face from about 10:30 which he thought was pretty much alright. DS1 didn't stir at all during DS2's protests at night time nappy changes either so all in all a good night (despite hourly wake-ups for me, but I'm not so far away from those with DS1 that they're a shock to the system)

Picture up on my profile of DS1 and 2 getting acquainted

So the midwife who just visited had never heard of co-sleeping...

Suffice it to say I failed the 'Safe Sleep' assessment.

Never heard of cosleeping

Has she lived under a rock? Does she have no interest in her job to the extent that she has not looked at any information on different ways people might look after their babies? Its not as if it's obscure! There is bleeding NHS guidance on it ffs! I really think I would be contacting the hospital to suggest that they ensure their staff have adequate training to carry out their job, because I don't think I would trust someone who hasn't even heard of cosleeping to give me any advice on how to care for my child.

Reward chart might we worth a go but though dd is incredibly eloquent I am not really sure she would get the concept and would just want all the stickers right now. Cue screaming tantrums every time a sticker was produced, in sight, or even thought about. Also we have always tried to avoid rewards and bribery (I know, I've got my lentil loom out back). We managed potty training without sticker charts or anything so I'd like to avoid it if possible.

Unfortunately I have just come to except that dd takes after me personality wise, which means she is a contrary, opinionated, stubborn little monkey. But I do love her :o

Elph, such a sweet photo!

I am checking in to claim my prize as World's Worst Mother. Yesterday night I woke to a resounding thud followed by DS's wailing. He fell out of my bed while I was busy having a (different) nightmare. We have hardwood floors. I suggested to DH a few weeks ago to put an air mattress or something there and we both promptly forgot about it. This was not supposed to happen. Elph's midwife would be gloating.

To round it off, tonight was the first night that DH would try to put DS to sleep, after a couple of days of 'foundation work'. Sadly it did not go as smoothly for us, as in DS sobbed heartrendingly for 45 minutes at which point DH could not bear it any more and I came back onto the scene. Did fall asleep without boob though.

hear I also don't use sticker charts or rewards as much as possible. I do occasionally do things like, when leaving after something and it's taking forever to get them in the car, "as soon as you're in the car you can have your biscuit" But they're all getting one anyway, and it's not as if they've got to be in by the count of 5 or anything. We did potty training, bed transition for all 3, all of that without rewards etc. I did have to keep skirting round the subject as Ann was keen to bring in some.kind of reward system and I didn't want to sound like a know it all (as I'm not!) but we've not done one. I do let dt1 have nesquik in his milk in the morning once his light has come on though, and say your light was on so would you like chocolate milk- oops! He gets it pretty much every morning anyway though whether or not it was an easy morning so again, not quite as reward but i do say how well he's done if he managed it and he is improving with it anyway. I think it can take a long while to consolidate though. I know I was outside dad's door on the landing for months . I'm wildly far from a perfect parent. I totally shouted at all 3 twice today. I'd been doing so much better at not shouting at them, I'm really disappointed in myself

chocolate I've totally forgotten what I was going to say now. whoops. Hello anyway, glad you're hanging in there.

off to look at your pic elph

peregrin sounds tough. The falling out of bed thing though, they mostly do it at least once. The first time.dt1 fell out I swore it'd never happen again. The second time.i had hold of his sleeping bag- by the toe end, so I knew his head hit the floor first I think he fell out another time too before we got the bed guard up. It's not been as quick as expected with us either. The prediction is up to a year to settle into a proper routine. But at least it's miles, miles better than before. I'm definitely hampered by the 3 all being a bit difficult so less easy to be consistent when there's 1 of me and 3 of them.

Now, off for the photo

Gorgeous pic Elph! What does DS1 make of his new little bro? Good to hear that he wasn't disturbed by DS2 in the night, although I've found DD1 hardly ever wakes up no matter what DD2 gets up to. The other night I did get up and close the door as DD2 was having a proper yell and nothing was going to stop her. 10 minutes later she fell fast asleep in her cot with me just holding her hand.

at the midwife not knowing anything about co-sleeping though, that's ridiculous. Do they not even read their own literature?! My health visitor was much the same though, she asked where DD2 was going to sleep (when I was still pg) and I said in a bedside crib and she said 'oh good you're not planning to bedshare because its not safe'. I smiled and crossed my fingers behind my back…

Bloody stupid though, they'd do far better to tell people the truth - that virtually everyone co-sleeps at some point, often accidentally, and it would be far more sensible to tell them how to do it safely!

Peregrin DD1 has also fallen off the bed on many more than one occasion, I'm pretty sure they all do it at some stage. Do you have a bed guard or anything? DD1 actually thrashes so wildly in her sleep that I had to get her one of those starter beds with rails almost all the way round. She has flung herself from the middle of our double bed before now onto the floor with one thrash. All still in her sleep until she hits the floor.

DD1 still refusing to do anything in the potty or loo but she did have a little sit on one earlier today with two of her NCT baby friends who are also just starting potty training. Very sweet and funny to see them line their potties up and sit down together! We are now armed with about 4 books all about potties however! Thankfully she hasn't taken her nappy off the last few nights - think putting pants and pj bottoms over the top may have helped curb that one, thank goodness its a bit cooler at night!

Wooohooo! Congratulations Elph and welcome to the world miniElph :)

That's some size of a baby!Of course he's going to be a sleeper,if the first one is bad,second must be better!
What his big bro is thinking about him?

Peregrin,DS also fell out of my bed(divan height),thank goodness we have a thick carpet so didn't even wake up(I did).

I'm looking at your short hospital stay stories-I suppose the hospitals down south are more overloaded than here-except that there are just 3 labour suites in this one.Nobody chased me home after both births,in case you wanted to bf but your milk still hasn't come midwives were feeding babies the formula(only if mother agreed) from the cup to not get the baby used to the bottle.

Well,you're all still here so I suppose nothing's changed on the sleep front or do you just fancy some company

jaggythistle were you not in June 2012 antenatal or somewhere about?I seem to recognise your nickname somehow.

Day starts here just after 6am when DS1 gets up,DS2 asleep until I put breakfast on the table.Little monkey must smell food,the second I'm supposed to sit down he starts wailing.DS1 goes for a nap sometimes in the afternoon,he goes down and DS2 starts wailing the moment I try to close my eyes.8 pm start bathing,bed routine,if I'm lucky I'm done by 9-9-30pm with DS1,DS2 settles down after 10pm.A few feeds during the night,sometimes waiting over half an hour for DS2 to burp to avoid projectile vomiting when put down and here we go again 6am comes…

DH has had a huff this morning that I didn't speak to him when he got up-sorry not so dear,I'm in a fucking zombie state.

DH works long hours which is another thing I don't like-I just feel like we agreed on a second child and now I'm left to cope with everything as he strolls in half an hour before bathtime.Yes,I'm getting bitter and resentful.

Anyway,take care everybody,sorry for not referring to everyone,no brains left and hardly any time to type.

Off I go to sleep,fuck the kitchen mess for once…

[hugs]

Bald, big hugs, its bloody tough in the early months. Things do get a little bit better, although I'm not sure we had a better night last night as DD2 was very unsettled and up most hours then DD1 got up at 6 but was very unhappy about it and lay on the floor and cried for about 10 minutes. But they are not the norm, usually its more like 2 or 3 wake ups and straight back to sleep after a quick feed and DD1 getting up closer to 7 or even 7.30 on some blissful mornings.

OH doesn't even try and talk to me in the morning, he'd get his head bitten right off!

Sounds like DD2 is getting up after her lovely lie in lucky thing!

I seriously thought I'd fallen into another universe when she asked me what co-sleeping was and even asked me to spell it for her so she could write in my notes that I had been advised not to do it. MN does not have the emoticon for the face I pulled. Something like this, I think:

O_o

She even went on to say, 'It's not something me or anyone in my team have ever come across.' I hope she went back, mentioned it to her team and they laughed loud and long in her face and asked her not to misrepresent them as fools in the future. I'm having a visit from the Breastfeeding Network today. I'm sure they'll have a good laugh when I tell them.

Peregrin I got up before DS one morning while we were still co-sleeping on a normal-height double bed, only to hear a thump followed by a piteous wail about 10 minutes later. I got two of these, one for each side of the bed very shortly thereafter and it didn't happen again.

DS1 has taken his little brother into his stride completely. Looks for him, loves to give him kisses and asks us to put him on the floor with him while he plays. Refuses to use his name though - it's 'Baby' or nothing. I do feel SO LUCKY though that we're able to keep sending DS1 to nursery. I really have no idea how people physically cope with toddler plus newborn(s) day in and day out. Huge hats off to those of you that have done/are doing it. You're better at this than I am!

Thanks so much for consoling me in my shame, everyone. The next thing to do pronto is lowering the mattress of the crib (DS migrates between the crib and my bed in the night) as DH has just informed me he has seen the kid pull himself up to stand! Better not forget about this one.

So sweet to read about your little ones, Elph almost makes me want to reconsider the possibility of a sibling for DS in the far, far away future :)

Bald, I barely coped just with the baby when I had DS, and I don't think I even got changed out of my nightdress more than once a week for months including when we had workers in the house (I did change my nightdresses!) I totally understand your frustration with your DH. Did you have a talk about working hours before deciding on the second child? It's an ongoing battleground between me and my DH as well - not to mention in our case I am the higher earner, and the long hours he puts in are really for his own enjoyment.

I finally have some good news to report as well! DS fell asleep in my arms tonight after a bare 20 minutes of grizzling - he didn't even cry. And I didn't have to walk with him so my back says Thank You Very Much! Hooray!

(He woke up an hour afterwards and required resettling, but that's only par for the course.)

Congratulations elph glad you had a nice calm birth and that you are home. What a lovely picture of your boys, ds1 looks like a very proud big brother! about the midwife re: co-sleeping, where has she been? Hope that despite the newborn feeding (he is a good size!) that you are getting some rest, take it easy.

Hear dd1 is petrified of hand dryers too. She is 5 now and at least able to go into a public toilet, but still puts her hands over her ears and grabs me if one turns on.

Dreaming can I have some of what your on please?! Seriously, how do you find the energy?

Peregrin I am sure most parents have had one roll off the bed at some point. Dd1 fell out of my arms onto laminate floor aged 5 months when I fell asleep lying down feeding in bed.

Bald that sounds tough. I don't get daytime naps either, ds always seems to wake as soon as dd2 goes down for her nap. Talk to your DH, I had a heart to heart with mine recently and he has started to do more in the evenings to take some of the pressure off me now.

I like the star projector Chocolate, might have to get one for dd2 so that we don't have to sit with her for half an hour to get her to sleep.

Been very busy here. My 9 year old niece is staying so have had 4 kids and loom bands to deal with. Took dd2 for hospital appointment with allergy consultant. Skin tested negative to most things, but waiting on blood tests for milk and mold mix as most likely allergens.