Misery loves company: to ride it out or Something Must be Done- pick your camp :)

[DreamingOfAFullNightsSleep]

Hello again all- may the sleepers continue sleeping, the new arrivals due or here get the idea very quickly and the rest of us see the light at the end of the tunnel!

Hello all! Have been keeping up with the thread as best as I can but just never seem to have two minutes to post! Currently typing this on the computer with DD1 on my lap watching cbeebies on iplayer!

Hear, I gave in to temptation last year and took out that second mortgage… I do love the thermomix but don't think I use it to anything like its potential as just don't have the time to play in the kitchen any more. It mostly gets used for making porridge and chopping veg very very small for bolognese and cottage pie….

Dreaming, it sounds like amazing progress is being made! It also sounds like very very hard work. I found it hard trying to sleep train with just one non-sleeper by myself, let alone juggling bedtime with three little monsters angels.

Tough decision Elph! But thought being induced was risky after a CS? Think would prefer ELCS to induction!

Bald, sounds like things are going well with DS, fingers crossed they continue to! Stitch that sounds horrendous. I also occasionally flirt with the idea of a third but in reality I just don't think I could cope with three, I struggle enough with two most of the time!

Hello to Ellie, Scandi and Peregrin and sorry to hear about your non-sleepers. Its bloody tough isn't it.

I have two DDs, one is 28 months and has never been a brilliant sleeper. She first slept through 8 hours at about 15 months but we've had more regressions that you can shake a big stick at. Currently she isn't too bad, bedtimes are OKish as long as she hasn't had a late sleep in the car or anything, although they have crept later again. She is usually waking once in the night but settles reasonably quickly then currently wakes at 5 freezing cold because she has kicked all her covers off so comes into our bed. On a good day she doesn't wake DD2 and goes back to sleep. On a bad day she wakes DD2 but still goes back to sleep and with any luck DD2 goes back to sleep at some point. On a very bad day like today she wakes DD2 and neither of them will go back to sleep so we were all up at 5 am and DD1 is now a floppy overtired trantrummy mess. I think she takes after me when it comes to mornings...

DD2 is 6 months and the jury is still out on her sleeping. We've had so much going on the last 6 weeks or so with holiday/illness/hospital/antibiotics/ more holiday/heat wave/more illness (roseola this time - hideously itchy poor thing!) that I don't think its fair to judge yet! She has had piriton the last three nights - prescribed by the doctor to my total joy and has only been up twice each night for a quick feed and straight back to bed in her own crib. Would be lovely if it wasn't for having to get up and shut DD1's windows and put her covers back on and then DD1 waking up at the crack of dawn…

I have been doing a bit of work trying to encourage DD2 to fall asleep in her own bed rather feeding or rocking to sleep. Slow progress as I'm not up for lots of crying and stress and some days are more successful than others but will keep plugging away at it. She is mostly doing much better at sleeping in her crib rather than on me too - thank god as its been so bloody hot! She does have a sleepyhead which seems to help, she sleeps on her side/tummy with her arm over the side cuddling it!

The big news here is that DD1 is about to go into her big girl bed!! I'm absolutely bloody dreading it but I can't wait any longer as DD2 desperately needs to move into the cot.

The bed is coming today but I think I might wait until tomorrow as it has to be put together and I have a feeling that it would be better to do it first thing so she can spend the day playing "bed" and getting in and out of it five hundred times in the vague hope that she might stay in it at bedtime!

Any tips please guys? Hear, how are things going now with your DD at bedtime? Is she staying in her bed? We already have a stair gate on the door and I've rearranged the whole room to try and make sure she can't get into too much trouble. Am I just in for months of returning her to bed every 5 minutes?!

Sorry for the epic post all, have to grab opportunities to post when I can!

Lightening post!

elph I'd never ever chose induction having had a shit, shit induction and lovely elcs. I agreed to try a vb with my twins only if I went into labour naturally and before 35 weeks

chocolate dt2. yes. months and months and ongoing months of putting back into bed. dd never got out. Ever. For months and then now more to get a drink, for a wee etc. dt1 doesn't get out at bedtime now on the programme but does get out in the night when he wakes. So jury is out for me!

Hi Chocolate! I find it amazing enough that people have second DCs after a non-sleeper (somehow this term doesn't quite capture the sheer awfulness of it). So you amaze me too. :)

Thank you for the confirmation Elph. Bragging about your snoozing and netflixing here is practically a public service. It's like going to church and hearing about the heaven that awaits you after the long years in the valley of tears. You are not always sure whether to believe it but it gives you hope.

In further news, I kept DS in my bed this morning as I do every day when he wakes up for good and I don't yet think it's time to get up. He wriggled free from under my arm in a split second and drop-kicked me with all his might in the eyeball. That will learn me.

At Ann's request I've asked MNHQ to delete some of my posts which go into detail about her method. In case you haven't seen the original post and just get the deletion message, don't worry. I haven't started shit-slinging, AIBU-style

Evening ladies.
Last night was another shocker. First wakeup at 10.30, then up for a 2 hour block from 1-3am and another hour from 5.50am.

Tonight is shaping up to be even worse. He has been asleep less than 2 hours and we are already on the second wakeup. This does not bode well for the night... My poor back cannot take much more of the bent-over-cot-bum-patting-madness.

And just to make things better, I think I have either mastitis or a blocked duct because my right boob is really really sore. And I'm already on anti-biotics for a UTI. It's all joy in my house this evening!

Thanks Dreaming, I'm hoping for things to be more like your DD than your DT2!!

Peregrin, little did I know at the time, but DD2 was a little extra luggage from a holiday abroad for a wedding… We'd always thought we'd have two but I had thought we'd have a bigger gap in the vague hope of getting some sleep in between.

Elph, did Ann figure out who you are in that case?! Surely you are her biggest referrer!

Ellie, have you tried just holding DS's hand instead of patting? If he is up for such a long time anyway, it might be worth trying to take a step away? If nothing else, it might be easier on your back! But don't feel you have to listen to me - I'm the one who spent three months sleeping on the floor next to DD1's cot so DD1 could sleep on my hand. I only stopped when the bump got too big for me to get on the floor - frankly was a blessing in disguise as it gave me a kick up the bum.

Sorry to hear about the painful boob - ouch! Think Elph is the mastitis expert around here! Have you tried expressing and massaging the sore bit? With either of them you need to get rid of the milk that is causing the problem.

Yes - Ann unmasked both me and Dreaming. No hard feelings at all and is all sorted now

ellie Have you had mastitis before? If you're on ABs already, it's probably more likely to be a blocked duct. Shower or warm bath (the former is probably pleasanter in this weather), very long, slow squeezes with a hand pump on the affected side and a wide-toothed comb run from armpit to nipple over the sorest spot. Hurts like buggery but very effective. On one of my seven bouts, I expressed the most fascinating stuff - thick ropey yellow stuff with occasional little pellets. As a passionate zit-squeezer of many years' standing, the riveting contents of my boob completely took my mind off the pain

eek.... Elph you got pellets out of your boobs????

Still sore this morning... I'm wondering if it is actually neither mastitis nor blocked duct, but if it is actually a huge bruise from when my hyperactive DS elbowed me right in the boob yesterday morning.

Another dodgy night. My Mum is supposed to be babysitting for us this eve so we can go to a friends birthday... god know what's going to happen, since if it's not me who goes to him when he wakes he just cries until I turn up. 90mins is the record so far... and that is going to test her nerves!!
We arranged the night out 2 months ago, in the blissful days where he went down at 7.30without a murmur and no crazy rolling, and slept consistently until 2am without waking...

Yeah, yellow pellets. I can only assume it was solidified chunks of milk. No wonder it fricken hurts if that's what causes the blockage

Elph, that sounds amazingly gross, think I'd have been equally fascinated. Ahhh the revolting things our bodies can produce eh?!

I'm impressed that Ann is a mumsnetter and has been following your posts! I guess her name gets mentioned a lot around these parts! Hello Ann, if you're reading this!

Ellie, we had the same issue with DD1, she consistently woke after 45 minutes and screamed the house down. I was the only person who could resettle (possibly I was the only person who could be arsed/patient enough to spend an hour or more trying). This went on for 15 months. In the end, it was a case of never leave the house in the evening or give in and let MiL look after her and just get her up. She would be perfectly happy sat in the lounge chatting, reading books or watching tv until we came home and then I would put her back to bed. She'd be a bit knackered the next day but nothing too awful - considering how little sleep she usually got anyway, she probably barely noticed. Might that be an option rather than your mum trying to settle him back in bed?

Second time around, I give up a lot more easily and DD2 just has quite a few late nights. Means I get a bit of a life for now - at some point I guess I will have to go through some sort of gradual retreat but she's too young yet I'm still holding out against all hope that she might spontaneously turn into a magic sleeper baby.

PS DD1 is currently napping in her big girl bed! She was so excited, she put her duvet and pillow on the bed and got in before we even got the mattress on it! She got in and out about 30 times but finally went to sleep after about 30 minutes!

Please please tell me this isn't a fluke even if you're lying

Ellie as the mother of a long-term non-sleeper I always just told anyone babysitting to just get her up and stick on some bagpuss or Kipper or whatever was her current TV thing of choice when she woke. This the only circumstances where the no tv after dinner rule is broken, but it just didn't seem worth getting in a stress about for one night.

elph I almost feel i should send Ann a cheque or something now we have been rumbled

If you're reading, hi Ann. Get a book out and I promise I'll buy at least 3 :)

Bedtimes have been horrendous recently with lots of crying and general upset, however she has been sleeping through until 5.30-6.00am so can't complain too much. We are trying to treat it like a little regression and push on through to the sparkling future that elph inhabits.

ellie My in-laws looked after DS overnight (the one and only night I've ever spent away from him) back when he was still a horror sleeper. MIL always thought I was soft on him, as evidenced by the co-sleeping. They were NOT going to do that with him. They lasted until midnight, before he was spread-eagled between them.

They're all still alive

Child cloning coming along nicely here. Slept through last night. woke 5:30am as per usual. Asked him to stay in bed til his light came on. Went back to my bed expecting it to last all of 10 seconds. He waited

Have fed all dc chippy tea tonight . Ace

elph meant to say, you're doing amazingly to not be moaning about heat and late pregnancy and toddler care. The end is in sight!!

Impressive stuff dreaming! That's quite a long time for him to wait. What a star :)

I am currently standing outside dd's room listening to her 'reading' books to herself in bed. It's really rather cute :o

Whoopee, Dreaming! Bloody brilliant. Keep it up - won't be long before bedtime actually has some nice bits and you'll know you have a full night of sleep coming to you. Nah, I don't complain about this 'heat', even carrying this monster baby around. I'd have my Australian citizenship stripped off me. I grew up with REAL summers

Hear DS has taken up 'reading' to himself which is adorable/hilarious and reassures me that, despite his leisurely acquisition of the spoken word, he actually takes on quite a bit. His page by page 'reading' of Green Eggs and Ham the other night was a hoot:

'Sam! SamsamsamSAM! Eggs? Yyyyyuck! Look! Look! House? Mouse? Box? Fox? Car! Car stuck in tree! CHOO CHOO! Daaark... RAINING! Goat? Boat? OH NO! CHOO CHOO FALL DOWN! CAR WET! FOX WET! CHOO CHOO WET! GOAT GONE! Sam...eggs? Num, num, num. Mmmm! Thanks Sam, thanks! The end.'

Im still here outside her room. She's only been to the door once. Yay! However she has worked out how to turn on her bedside light and magically produced a cat toy from somewhere, so she is now jangling away with the light on full. I'm trying really, really hard to resist the urge to stomp in and instead let her get on with it.

It's hard though!

Dreaming, that is amazing news! Yay for the cloning process!

Hear, at least you are outside the door! Stick with it and don't go in - at least not yet!

Fingers crossed, things seem to be going OK with the Big Bed Transition. I put DD2's camera monitor (love that thing!) in there so I can spy on her and she usually gets in and out a few times but she seems to have got the hang of getting in herself and going to actual sleep! Amazing!

She also does reading to herself (and to me), its so funny and cute. Think she must have learned some of her books almost by rote because she can be quite scarily accurate at times!

Things not going so well on the toilet front however. She is cloth bummed so knows that poo goes down the toilet - all well and good. So she now goes to the bathroom every time she does a poo and takes her nappy off. Sometimes the poo goes down the toilet, other times if I'm not quick enough, it gets smeared all around the toilet/on the floor/down her legs…

We've also had quite a few wee incidents including one tonight on the bedroom floor and several involving her taking her nappy off in her cot/bed - we've had a few middle of the night bed changes which is not fun. She will sometimes go outside and have a wee on the grass if she doesn't have a nappy on but she is a total potty refuser. She will sit on the loo on her seat and squeeze out a fart with all her might but that is it! Anyone got any ideas?!

DD2 also having a bit of a regression with regards to falling asleep in her crib rather than being rocked/fed to sleep. Took 40 minutes tonight and gave up altogether for her nap earlier. But she won't fall asleep on the boob and I haven't got the time/patience/a good enough back to rock her so we're going to have to stick with it. Hate to see her getting upset though . Thank god for the dummy.

Right, time for a (very) small before the first wake up!

4:50am wake up and refusing to contemplate staying quietly in his bed was less good. He woke his brother. dh went in. so I has to shut him up or 4 out of the 5 of us would have been up so had to lie on his floor. PITA .

um. .not sure chocolate dd was such a doddle.i have no tips...

I'm torn as to what to do about the toilet training conundrum as well, Chocolate. I suspect the sensible approach is to wait until we've got to a manageable stage with DS2, whenever the hell that might be. We've got toddler toilet seats for up and downstairs, and if we put DS on them, he knows to 'produce', actively attempts to do so and is very happy with himself when he does. He also gets bothered if he wees on the floor. However, last week, he went through a phase of quite deliberately and actively squeezing a poo out for me in the bath after he'd pulled the plug - not on DH's bath nights, mind, just mine He's also indifferent to being wet or dirty most of the time and he's in cloth as well, so he can definitely tell when he's either, so my gut feeling is we'd probably be training ourselves more than him at this stage.

DS ate actual broccoli tonight without cheese sauce on it!

As you were

Hah! I knew he was an alive.

What on earth is this tablet doing?!

I meant to say, I knew he was an alien clone. This sudden eating of broccoli is clear proof! :o

He spat some of it out to maintain the facade