Misery loves company: to ride it out or Something Must be Done- pick your camp :)

[DreamingOfAFullNightsSleep]

Hello again all- may the sleepers continue sleeping, the new arrivals due or here get the idea very quickly and the rest of us see the light at the end of the tunnel!

FraterculaArtica, thanks for responding. I did that for a while before he got better at sleeping (I slept on his old cot mattress with blankets - nice!). I might give that a go again but it feels like such a rotten step back. We'd been working so hard on this issue and felt so pleased that we were finally getting our lives back (after over 2 long years). I wept last night as I was so worried that I'd start finding it hard to love him. He's a true gem during the day - a happy, affectionate treat - but at night, it's a totally different story.

Marie is it nightmares or night terrors? There might be some specific advice that relates to that which may help. Sorry if you've already thought of this/ tried various things.

Fratercula hope your strategy works as that is what we are planning to do with DD in the next few months. Need her to get used to me being at work first though; she was not impressed at being left today so anticipating a bad night...

Fratercula I have similar issues with the bf advice you get. At none of our classes did they discuss growth spurts or cluster feeding and that there will frequently be days and nights where you will be feeding non stop. Also that posterior tongue tie is a common problem and as such worth ruling out from birth. At one point I didn't think I'd make it to 6 months bf'ing. The LLL helpline and various bf clinics were no help, they just told me to try different positions. It was only when I hired a lactation consultant that we found out what the problem was. I think they mean well but they're not all experts which is often what's actually needed. It's no wonder so many women end up turning to formula, I think you have to be really determined to stick with it.

Gosh! What a lot going on. Hello everyone :o

Marie I was also thinking nightmares when I read your post. Dd went through a similar phase around 2ish. Thankfully she is very articulate so was able to tell us what the problem was. She kept having dreams about frogs apparently... Very scary frogs We spoke to her a lot about dreams and how they aren't real and just sort of rode that mo fo out, as we like to say.

The only other thing is maybe back teeth if he hasn't got them already. Dd's were a bitch and came along just as we had forgotten all about the joys of teething.

On the subject of teething I think someone else mentioned about giving pain reliefrelief fit teething up thread. Do you alternate ibuprofen and paracetamol? As long as you keep to recommended doses I don't think there is any reason not to give every night if they are in pain. Dd really suffered when teething and we had a good while where a dose of medicine became part of the bedtime routine and we'd keep a dose by the bed for emergencies during the night.

Hello everybody.

Attitude your DC sounds a bit like my DD2, she resisted formula completely and cows milk at first. Then she drank a bit during the day but not at bedtime. I let if be for a week and then one day she went to bed after a cup of it (14 months). She slept through a week later - I reckon you are so close, hang in there! She is still a milk fan now at 3.5.

Hello all you new chums!

Evening all
Thanks Calm, I'll keep offering. I'm sure he'll get used to it over the next couple of weeks.

Think I could get comfy in here! Back in bed with my DS asleep on my chest. Woke at 8pm, cuddle, woke at 9pm, mama's chest is his bed. DH working again tonight.
I spoke to a sleep lady today (one I read of on AIBU, Nicola) and have a consultation booked for end of month....

Fingers crossed she can help then.
Yep there are some nights when only Mummy will do as a bed. It would be manageable if they weren't up so frequently in between those times and you had reserves to draw on!

4 wakeups already this evening. Can anyone beat that? Can we play WakeUp Top Trumps?

Hear it was me who mentioned teething - good to know someone else is in favour of the relentless medication, it seems awful to let them suffer when they are hurting doesn't it?

Attitude I was generally unimpressed with the NCT breastfeeding class I did, but it did actually cover tongue tie (DS had a posterior one which caused huge problems with reflux and pain till it was diagnosed and snipped at 7 weeks) and cluster feeding/growth spurts (which I never really encountered - even as a newborn his feeds lasted no more than 5 min, occasionally 10 min! - there were just a few nights of cluster feeding in the first 2 weeks) But it does seem strange that all the BF-ing stuff focuses on the difficulties of getting it established, not what happens 6 months down the line when your baby wakes every hour at night for another snack. I've certainly found this much more difficult than the early weeks, when I was kind of psyched up for the sleep deprivation. Sometimes wonder what those who FF do with frequent wakers - presumably they don't offer a bottle every hour at night? And how do they ever get them to sleep in the first place??

Marie, maybe less of a step backwards than him sleeping in your bed? I can't really say my strategy is reaping any rewards so far (see above, 4 wakeups, in this part of the evening he looks up, notices Mummy has scuttled off, and shouts for me to come back for another cuddle...)

time to call it a day, with that!

Oh dear Fratercula, I hope your night improved from there!

Good point about the FF and night waking, I have wondered that but maybe you can offer water instead when they are old enough? I know a FF friend gives a bottle when her son wakes but I think in general they wake up less often than bf babies? Certainly my two DD slept through when I stopped BF (7 months first, 14 months DD2). I have introduced a bedtime bottle for DC3 but hasn't made any difference to his incessant waking in the evening hence the call to sleep consultant. Having said that, after a few false starts he's in his cot atm....

Not to be a voice of pessimism but I will say that giving up bf had no noticeable effect on my dd's sleep at all. However, I have heard a lot of people say it improved things for them so it might just be that dd was/is freakishly resistant to sleep

Hello all and belated Happy New Year - lets hope 2015 involves a bit more sleep all round?!

Blimey, its been getting busy in here while I've had my eye off the ball! Welcome to all the new arrivals in sleep deprivation hell - make yourselves as comfortable as you can - , and sympathy are plentiful around here!

Elph, how is Ann's magic coming along on DS1? Is he back to his former clone self yet?! Dreaming, hope your lot are all over their illnesses now and you're getting some decent nights.

Hear, so sorry about your Mum, I hope she is as comfortable as she can be.

Attitude, I'm about to introduce cows milk to DD2 as she turns one this weekend (where did that year go?!). She will take a bottle (of EBM) if I'm not around but not sure how the change in milk is going to go! DD1 was not keen for a long time and would only have a few sips. Now at nearly 3 she loves milk (especially a 'baby-cheeeenooo'!!).

"Fratercula", I would also suspect either nightmares or molars - DD1s sleep was reliably horrendous every 6 weeks for about 8 months and I could see the teeth slowly coming through and how red it was. I spent most of that time on a mattress next to her cot as she would only sleep if she was lying on my hand.

The DD's have both been ill for most of the last four weeks but I'm pressing ahead with sleep training for DD2 - I've left it as long as I can manage! Last week I spent a blissful four nights on the blow up bed downstairs leaving OH to deal with DD2 when she woke - it was the only way to get her off the boob at night as she would literally be fighting me to get to it!! He generally just took her into bed for cuddles, which was fine by me.

Night 2 was the worst with 3/4 wake ups and an hour or so of crying. Nights 3 and 4 seemed to go fine to me as I had a good solid 5 hours sleep each night - probably for the first time in 3 years! What utter bliss!

Apparently they both woke up at least twice but I didn't hear a thing despite having DD1s monitor in the room with me!! Both resettled quickly though for OH - wonders will never cease!

So now we're onto phase 2 - DD2 is in her own room and I'm not getting her out of the cot other than for a feed at 10.30 (if she wakes for it which she didn't last night). Night 2 was the best, when she slept from 10.30 to 5.30!!!! That is her longest stretch ever! Sadly DD1 woke with a temperature - obviously it was her turn on the "wake mummy" rota - and then wriggled in our bed for two hours until I threw my toys out of the pram decided she would sleep better in her own bed.

Last night DD2 didn't wake for a late feed but woke at 12.30 and was awake for at least two hours intermittently crying and then lying down with her dummy. Eventually I fell asleep leaning against the cot and when I woke up she'd gone to sleep!

Hoping for a repeat of night 2 without added DD1 please!!!

Good luck all...

He's coming along very well. Happily kissed me goodnight and tootled off to his room with DH tonight. Wouldn't have done that a week ago. Haven't yet braved sending DH in for the night wakings yet but they're reducing a lot with Ann magic and MY GOD HE'S AWAKE A LOT AT NIGHT!!

(First rule of sleep club, newbies, is to never admit when they're sleeping well as it will all instantly go to shit. )

Hear - DS1 didn't improve either after giving up BFing, so not just your DD. He replaced it with pulling my hair and kicking me every couple of hours to get back to sleep.

Chocolate - a cafe-owner friend thinks babyccinos represent everything that's wrong with society He's made me take a solemn vow never to order one, which I'm sticking to, but fear I'm just pissing people off.

Me: 'Could I have a child-sized hot chocolate please?'
Barista: 'Oh, we do babycc...'
Me: 'NO! A HOT CHOCOLATE IN AN ESPRESSO CUP PLEASE! YES, £5 FOR THAT IS QUITE REASONABLE!'

4 more wakings after midnight last night here Attitude. Fairly typical but at least he settled reasonably quickly most times. Another tooth cut through this morning so maybe that was partly responsible.

Hear and Elphaba I have absolutely no optimism that cutting BFing at night will make any difference. And DS has just learnt to launch himself across the bed at me and try to wriggle his way down my top - they don't tell you that in BFing classes either!

Does anyone know how to get an alert when Ann is open for bookings for February? I check her website daily but am scared I miss the small window of availability. I am at the end of my tether and the sleep issue is destroying the family

I hear your pain sunbeam and the effect my sleep deprived grumpiness is having on my other children is why I'm thinking sleep consultant too. If you can't get hold of Ann though, there are others out there? Have a look around and see which ones fit your parenting style. Sleep deprivation is miserable I know.

Elph, I suspect your cafe-owner friend is absolutely right. The only reason I succumb to it (rather than calling it warm milk!) is (a) it works every time as a bribe (and I will cheerfully admit to being a terrible parent and using bribes) and (b) hearing DD1 say "babyccino" makes me laugh every time. Plus most places do them for free which I'm sure has no impact on your friend's decision rather than a ridiculously expensive hot chocolate which DD usually spills all over the floor...

Could do with a bloody good coffee myself this am after another 3 hours on DD2's floor...clearly I jinxed it by even mentioning her sleep the other night WHEN WILL I LEARN!!

Yep - bribes used left, right and centre here as well Potty training would ever have happened without chocolate buttons stickers.

There's no alerts unfortunately, Sunbeam. You just have to keep trying your luck. I'm surprised she doesn't just keep it open and maintain a waiting list, TBH. I guess she just likes to be able to respond to requests straight away rather than say, 'Why yes I can fit you in in two months.' She does work crazy hours, though. I've had immediate responses to emails sent at 8:30pm

On the vital question of the babyccino I compromise by asking for steamed milk and pretending i haven't heard when they say babyccino. However, dd is still rather suspicious of the whole idea of hot milk so don't bother often.

Aargh, babyccinos! It's such a twee name but think I shall borrow Hear's suggestion of asking for steamed milk as need something to distract DD from my coffee!

Well DD and I have survived the first week of work although I have probably not helped myself by shoving a boob in her mouth every wake up! It has got her back off fairly quickly though although her 5am crawling over me is painful when I have to get up at 615. Ideally I'd let her sleep longer but as she's in bed with me it's not very practical. She did manage a couple of naps at the CM...I had to restrain a hollow laugh when she said she wouldn't settle in the cot!

Elphaba noticed you mentioned your DS was a hair puller..any tips on stopping it? It's driving me mad!

Hope all of you sleep training and with teething babies have a peaceful night

Well, I know it's called 'silking' when they run fingers through your hair to soothe themselves. DS1 still strokes my hair very occasionally during cuddles so it still has some magical properties, obviously. The only solution we came up with on here was to send DH in to co-sleep with him while wearing a long curly auburn wig. Ultimately, he stopped doing it when we stopped co-sleeping i.e. after we worked with Ann.

Weaning off boob made it worse, just to warn you. It went from a very gentle 'scrunching' while he was feeding to 'yank, yank, YANK, YANK, YANK' once boob was no longer an option. God, it was 'orrible. I'm currently enjoying DS2's very gentle stroking of my arms and chest while he feeds, but I know all too well it's going to turn into pinching, prodding, pulling, punching, grabbing and hauling on my lips and lower jaw...WTF is the point in all that, I ask you? The stroking is lovely and releases oxytocin to aid milk let-down apparently. Why the subsequent violence? It used to just make me irrationally angry which surely can't help anybody.

Is it called 'silking' when they run their scratchy fingers across your nipple and flabby post-CS tummy too, I wonder?!