Stopping night feeds. Say something helpful.

[TheRealAmandaClarke]

This is partly a request for tips and experiences and partly a pledge.

DD is 1 yo. She bf to sleep at night.
Then wakes anywhere between 1 and three times, again bf back to sleep. I get that the feeding is a comfort.
I, of course am nearly dead from sleep deprivation/ disruption.
I am, from tonight going to stop night feeding. I'm going to initially drop any feeding before 1am, then move on to dropping any later feeds IYSWIM.
I'll be cuddling her, no CIO or cc, but no milk before 1 am.
Any tips?
I know I should like a wuss for doing it so gradually but she's only a baby after all.

Omg. I'm so behind aren't I.
Dd usually wakes once in the wee small hours, and goes back to sleep with a cuddle (sometimes 19 mins, sometimes an hour) then she's up around five. I can handle one or the other, but both a wake up and an early start are truly truly killing me. Dh thinks he understands because he's woken too but obviously there's no comparison between getting up and just being woken.
I don't put her down awake. I can't imagine being able to do that.
Oh shit. I'm never going to sleep properly again am I.

AC don't worry you are doing really well. you don't seem to get loads of wake ups anymore - so i guess its just a question of how you get rid of one of those two wakes. I have no advice because I think you are working at your and DD's pace which is probably less painful than forcing it.
to be honest i think i was incredibly lucky that DS has turned a corner without any real 'sleep training' i still haven't acted on bits of the advice from the sleep lady as I am too keen on the path of least resistance. for now i seem to have got away with it..
artemis keep posting really hope you are ok. I got so scared last night when DS woke up twice during the evening - I think DH thought i was nuts but I literally felt panicky at the thought of returning to hourly wake ups.

My next challenge is whether DS will sleep well / at all in a travel cot for the first time when we go away in less than two weeks..

Thanks for the support ladies, it really helps. We had a better night last night, still several wakes and up before 6 but I managed to get her back into the cot after feeds and she didn't scream her head off at any point. Live yes we are still working with Ann. She has been brilliant and unfailingly positive though I can imagine her rolling her eyes (in a kind way) at the sight of another email from me crying over what a hard time we're having when I haven't properly followed her plan. It's just very very difficult. I think perhaps the illness, teething etc had a bigger impact than I imagined. We really need a couple of good nights now to get back on track

AC according to our sc many babies will simply drop the wakes when the feeds aren't happening any more. Now you're not feeding, could your DH alternate the night wakes with you? I know that's easier said than done. I got up 3 times last night, DP once, but he was the one moaning about being tired today. Men just don't see it as their responsibility in the same way I don't think.

Wishing everyone a good night. I start to get twitchy around this time as the first wake tends to set the tone for the rest of the night.

liveinthepresent I can understand that fear. I hope it wasn't realised.
Fwiw, my dcs have never been less settled (if that makes sense) in the travelcot or different environments. Good luck.

Well done Artemis it's great to know there's some improvement, although I know it's so frustrating to be moving slowly.

Thank you both for your encouragement. I'm praying for a decent night. It's been quite a tough day today and I could do with some sleep before unravelling it all tomorrow.

hi ladies, I have been lurking for a while but I'm now resolved to stop feeding my 11m son overnight, in the vain hope that he will wake less. Up until now I say I'll do it then crack after 30mins crying, made worse by the fact that DS now knows exactly what he wants and how to get it (hand down my top etc). You all seem to be making progress - I wonder what your top tips are?

Just changed into my high neck top, hoping to be strong tonight!

Hi grainmum I have no tactic. I just (eventually, after much procrastinating) decided to refuse night feeds. I cuddle and rock dd and offer her water. She has a cold and took lots of water the night before last but only one wake up most nights and last night she slept from 730pm until 4:45 am. I won't count my chickens just yet.
Good luck. Go at your own pace and dont be scared.

I bought a cot at 6mo and put dd in it. It's lined with a fleece blanket. Anytime I have to do pickup - put down i always put my fleecy dressing gown on. My theory is that it minimises the change of environment... I'm not saying is foolproof, but it's a constant.

That's a nice tip fastwindow

Good grief. What a horrible night.
I had work to do so whet to bed after 11, which is super late for me.
Dd slept well. Until about 2am . And although I didn't feed her (gave her some water) she was unsettled for ages. I final,y put her down at around 4am. Then she was up just after 5.
Dh is still in bed and has no idea how close he is to being bludgeoned to death.

grainmum I have no tips either as we're still struggling but DD does settle better for my DP, probably because he doesn't smell of milk.

AP why is a good night always followed by a shit one? Hope you've been OK today and you managed to dispose of DH's body without being discovered. Our couple of decent nights over the weekend have been followed by a return to 3 - 4 wakes per night, crying at bedtime, total cot nap fail. Two steps forward, two back. There are glimmers of hope - she is consistently now spending the whole night in the cot - but it's difficult. I know we are not progressing anywhere near as quickly as the SC would like us to and i don't know whether it is DD holding back the pace or actually me. I just can't bear the prospect of crying for hours on end so tend to take the easier and more interventionist option to get her to sleep.

Artemis I have the same feelings about crying. I'm just not going to leave her to get on with it. It's not happening.
I need to move forward now though. Quite pleased about having stopped the night feeds. And last night she didn't feed to sleep either, so I'm starting to make some in-roads there, but I need to get her to go to sleep in her cot, rather than in my arms.
I just struggle with the logistics of starting that gradual process tbh.
And it's hard to think because she was up for a couple of hours last night, than up for the day at five.
I'm genuinely really suffering now. It's not funny anymore.

hello all am still here - we are doing well. DS is pretty much sleeping through every night - though he is coming down with a cough and cold again so that may send us back off the rails.
Now my only remaining challenge is a phase of early waking. I know I have nothing to complain about really but these are really exhausting me. I guess I need to get in the habit of going to bed much earlier to cope.Sorry to those of you still really suffering please don't think I have forgotten how much tougher your nights are!
welcome grainmum
AC you have done so well without any help from your DH I can really relate to what you say about not knowing where to start with the next stage - I really struggled with that and still do if we need to change something small it throws me off completely! I find it amazing some people seem to find it so easy to put two kids to bed on their own.
if it helps - what worked for us was to change one small thing at a time - then once it became habit change something else. this was what the sleep lady really helped me with - bite sized chunks.
happy weekends everyone

DS is snuffly and has fever. However we still managed not to feed to sleep, and he fell asleep in cot in less than 10mins. Just woke every hour in the evening then spent the night from 12.30 asleep on DH or I in rocking chair, woke each time we attempted transfer to cot :-( Hope he's better quickly so habit doesn't become entrenched.

AC hope you get some rest over the weekend. live good to hear there's light at the end of the tunnel!

liveinthepreesent thanks. You're right. Bite sized chunks.
You've done so well. It's really impressive. I hope your DS Is ok and the cold doesn't upset your sleep success too much.

grainmum poor you and poor DS. Good grief, it's so horrible when they're poorly.

I re read NCSS today. I've decided that I'm not too botched about feeding to sleep at bedtime ATM.
I'm going to cocnentrate on making sure she has good naps (proving tricky ATM) and spending some happy time in her cot and thinking about making small changes to rocking to sleep when she awakes in the night. So basically small steps between now: rocking to sleep and putting back in cot when fully asleep, through to being able to put her in the cot awake.
I'll see if when she wakes in the night tonight I can put h back when she's almost asleep and then hold her while she's in the cot IYSWIM,.
When I read it back I sound like such a wuss.

Hi ladies.

I've been reading with interest. I recognise some names from other threads. Can I join you?

My LO is almost 1, awful sleeper!

We had a spell where we got down to two wake ups with only one night feed - that was about 7 months. But since Christmas due to illness, starting nursery and a house move its all gone wrong.

Anyway after this latest cold is past I'm resolved to make changes. Stopping night feeds definitely needs to be done.

When not ill my LO will go to sleep by himself but with me in room. Currently though he thinks his cot is an awful place and wails if I put him in awake.

I'm going up try a quick version if gradual retreat so I'm out if room when he goes to sleep. I thought I'd give that a week to see if it makes any difference to night wakings.

If it doesn't cut them down I think I'm going to need to go cold turkey on night feeds (he's bf, refused bottle, will take a little from cup). I'm hoping he gets there by himself because I think he'll go crazy otherwise.

It's comforting to know other folk are in same boat (helps me feel like I've not quite so crap parent!)

Hi Emma
I think you've done fine tbh. Your ds is not quite 1 year, so the wake ups are normal. But very tough.

I failed with planning today. We were out. Dd had opportunity (pram and car) but no nap until on the way home from. 4.30 - 5.15.
Bf to sleep now. She's eaten ok ish today and been running about too so who knows. I think I'm too tired to use any techniques for getting her back to sleep in ger cot. Plus I have an insane work day tomorrow so please, please little one, have nice happy sleep.

Hello Emma yes I recognise your name - sorry you are still suffering but as AC said you probably aren't doing as badly as you think. Though i know it doesn't feel like it when you seem to have gone backwards and can't see progress.

AC thanks - but i am still not really sure if progress was down to me or DS.
He has mastered crawling this weekend and his cough/cold is really bad. Had 2 wake ups last night - 11 and then 5.30 but he went back to sleep until 7.45.
He has already woken once tonight as well - literally too bunged up to breathe through his nose.
So its not perfect but considering he is so poorly I am just happy there has been no regression back to hourly / two hourly waking.

By the way you definitely do not sound like a wuss - and I think your plans make sense. The first thing we did with the sleep lady was focus on naps and make sure the bedtime routine was consistent - and factored in cot play every day.. at the time it felt so far from where I needed to get to - but ultimately i think it did work.
Also totally makes sense to start when you feel ready - and your day has been on track.

Anyway am waffling again - fingers crossed everyones nights are bearable.

live the cot play thing puzzles me. Surely that makes it more difficult for them to know when you're putting them down to sleep?

Yes, that puzzles me too grain

Well, I'm utterly finished. I wholly expect to have the most enormous, serious trouble at work because I can no longer function.
Dd woke at 11 ish and settled quickly. Then ds came in around midnight needing help to go to the loo, then dd was up again around 1:30 and has just settled. No feeding, but I now can't sleep. This is going to be the actual finish of me. She'll be up again at five (if I'm lucky) even if I could get back to sleep its not even worth it.
I hope you're all having a better night.
Omg I can't believe I'm expected to do my job. I am so going to be in the shit.

AC how did you get on at work? Hope you made it through the day. We had a crap night last night too, crying at bedtime, two-hourly wakes then a hour of screaming from 3am. I'm sure DD must have known I needed to be up at 5.45 to travel to a work meeting. I got the train, it was a longer more expensive journey but I just wasn't fit to drive.

Hi Emma, I recognise your name too. FWIW I don't think any of us are crap parents

grainmum we've been doing cot play too. For us it was about showing DD that the cot is a safe and happy place to be. It helped me understand that the problem isn't about the location but about sleep itself - sounds stupid, but because DD would never sleep anywhere but on one of us I thought it was because she hated the Moses basket/ carrycot/ cot/ wherever. Now we know she's happy and secure in the cot we know that isn't the issue. I think it has helped with the self settling, though that has been very hit and miss lately, back to crying at bedtime which we haven't had for weeks .

I'm still feeding at night, usually twice unless we have a really bad night. The HV told me last week that DD is not likely to STTN through until i stop BFing. I don't know if there is anything behind this other than her opinion but it didn't thrill me as DD is just nine months and I don't really have any plans to stop BF, I had planned to continue to a year but I don't know what I will do after that.

AC oh my goodness I really hope you survived the day. I have often wondered how so many knackered people can hold down jobs..

grainmum yep agree about the cot play I thought the same - though my DD always spent awake time in hers and has always loved her bed - even now she still happily plays in the evening and morning. But the key thing is has always slept 11/12 hours.

I think as Artemis says the thing is knowing that they like and feel safe in the environment you want them to sleep in.
the theory is there are plenty of other cues that its sleep time.
I think it did help us.

DS is waking more at night now with his cough - but the key thing is its probably only once either at 3 or 5. Artemis now that he doesn't feed to sleep and eats loads he never falls asleep during a feed and so seems less bothered about milk at night wakings. I still BF because its my habit as much as his and i can sit down and read MN.

night all

OK that makes sense.

artemis do you think not feeding overnight is likely to lead to stopping BF altogether? I'm trying to stop feeding overnight but I'm still feeding first thing, twice through the day, then bedtime. I work 2 days and don't feed/express through the day on those days. It doesn't seem to make any difference to DS the next day.

artemis Thanks. I agree Bout the driving. I hope your day was ok.
I know my opinion on sleep is not to be trusted (given my non sleeping dd) and its true that bf babies seem to wake more than ff babies but stopping night feeds has made NO difference to waking at night.mnone whatsoever. If I stopped bf altogether then maybe it would change. It did with my ds but he was 2 yo then.
Your ds is still going to need a feed at night at this stage. It's really very common. If want to stop bf then it might well make a difference. But if you don't, or of you're unsure then don't be dissuaded from your 1 yr plan.
You should definitely do what you want to.

livein it's great that you have fewer night feeds. Sorry about DS's cough. Poor thing. Dd has a cold. It doesn't help does it.

I'm still feeding dd morning and evening. And sometimes at lunchtime. But no night feeds.

I'm dying actually. I'm utterly shredded and nobody gives a shit because ey all think I'm pathetic for not letting her CIO. I can't talk to anyone about it. It's like my dirty little secret.
I absolutely loathe going in to work. I can't begin to describe how much I resent not being a sahm at this stage in my dcs life. I'm on my knees.

AC how's it going? It's such a shame you feel pressurised to let your daughter cry - different things are right for different families. Is there anything you could do about work - reduce your days/hours?

Grainmum I don't see why stopping night feeds should lead to stopping BF, there seem to be plenty of people out there who have managed to night wean while continuing to BF, I'd just love to know how they did it! I feed at the same times as you do, and DD has EBM on the two days I work (just a small bottle morning and afternoon). She eats plenty during the day but she still wants to feed when she wakes at night. I've been timing night feeds - average of 8 minutes of which no more than 5 is actual feeding. I am pretty certain it's habit/comfort, not hunger.

I don't think the HV was suggesting I should stop BF to curb the night wakings (though previous HVs have raised this as an option!) but clearly it wouldn't necessarily follow. I'm generally sceptical of HV advice around breastfeeding, I've heard them come out with some right old crap.

AC I'm really sorry you're having such a hard time. It's knackering isn't it. I'm shattered and I don't even work full time. And I am horribly jealous of a few well-off SAHMs I know who put their toddlers into nursery a few days a week so they can have time to themselves . As Grainmum says, is there anything you could do about the workload? Or anyone who could help? possibly not your DH now he is under the patio. I too have been told to CIO by numerous people to the point where I now tell them sleep is fine because I don't want to hear it again. I think people who have never had a baby who can't sleep are happy to recommend techniques they've never had to consider using themselves. You are doing really well though, stopping night feeds is the first step. Surely at some point she will realise there's no point in waking up?

Youre both so lovely.thank you
Will post later.