Misery loves company: riding the mo fo out into Part II

[ElphabaTheGreen]

In our last exciting instalments:

Needles was at breaking point with a screaming 10 mo DD

Hear had experienced the magic of ONE unbroken night!

Dreaming was continuing to confound all with her ability to manage three children on four or five minutes a night, thanks to DT the Terrible.

Stitch was still having her sleep eaten by...erm...Stitch.

Poppy was pondering how the actual fark she was going to manage a newborn on top of BabyAmex's night time shenanigans.

And the desperate Elphaba had turned night duties entirely over to DH with mastitic results.

Join us with your stories of misery and woe in this, the most sleep-deprived corner of MN!

Blackout blinds ordered and due here in 2 weeks Charlie. They will change my life . sounds shit. Sleep deprivation is brutal. I think you are in a very tough patch that will get better just no idea when I though bad nights were tough with dd but once I had multiple children everything was just so much harder. I hear lots of lentil weaving hippies swear by amber bracelets for teeth. Desperate enough to try?

elph good lord, I wouldn't be able to restrain myself now let alone when pregnant. how many did you manage to consume- polite amounts or did you go.for it and aim for impressive amounts?

And yes, where the heck is hear?

Well, you have to eat an 200 extra calories per day in the third trimester, don't you? Wouldn't want to short-change myself and undernourish myself or DS2...

Three Danish pastries, one croissant and a hot chocolate despite having had cereal, banana, OJ, tea and toast for breakfast

Back on topic, I think a blackout blind did help here Dreaming, insofar as it was an additional aid to illustrating to DS that when it's down, he sleeps and when it's up he can play. It gets raised with great flourish in the morning or at the end of nap time, and lowered with the addition of a soft floor lamp at bedtime which he totally seems to 'get' as a signal to wind down and sleep. There's also all the theories on reducing light to aid melatonin production to facilitate sleep which Ann subscribes to. I have no idea if it made a difference in that regard, but as a behavioural reinforcement, it has been great (but wasn't, in itself, an overnight cure-all, I'm afraid)

charlie You do get a choice over CS or not but you are still fairly firmly encouraged to try a VB, and a bonkers, yoghurt-weaving side of me would still like to do it 'properly' if at all possible. I kept myself so fit before DS was born so I could do childbirth as naturally as possible, and then not even a maxed-out dose of syntocin, 12 hours of pacing the delivery room and pelvic circles on a birthing ball could put me into labour. I know it's not my fault, and neither me nor DS would be here without a CS, but I can't help feeling like a cop out. Having an 'elective' CS would make me feel even more like one, no matter how medically necessary it was. But at the same time, I really don't want a repeat of last time...ARGH! Why can't they all just come via stork the way they used to?

I'm being delusional about it as we are using a gro-anywhere blind on our room though elph I just can't stand doing the sodding suckers all the time so our room.remaims like a batcave semi permanently & we tuck the other bedroom curtains (south facing windows) up onto the window sill to cut down the light but they're going mouldy at the bottom with condensation so adding blackout blinds throughout. Hoping I can just ignore the state of them a long while

5:20 is not the morning. We'd been at 6:15 for ages. WHY?!?!

oh- and curtains all blackout lined. Hoping it's because they're south facing and it will all become very dark very soon.

We have blackout curtains but frankly they're a bit rubbish, especially with one of DD's windows which is east facing so gets the sun immediately it rises. I have seen some on amazon where you stick velcro round the window and then the blinds stick to that. Less faff than de-suckering every day, especially with two windows. Will see how she gets on at Mum's villa as she has sun blinds that are almost total black out.

I wouldn't mind her getting up early (well OK, I would mind, but it wouldn't be quite so painful) if she was cheerful when she got up, but she really isn't happy being awake. I think she would have gone back off in our bed this morning (she did yesterday) but OH was up and got in the shower and that was that! She's now gone to MiL for the day so I can try and pack for Spain - we go in less than 48 hours - aarrgghh!

And some good news at last - DD2 managed a 5 hour stretch last night! Her longest yet (and mine for several months)! Was soooo nice, I feel almost human today! She probably would have gone a bit longer if I hadn't done my usual slight panic and put a hand on her to check she was still breathing! I'm still not entirely comfortable with the tummy sleeping but its the only way she will so looks like we are stuck with it. I'll be happier when she's more mobile I guess.

Here's hoping it wasn't a one-off!

I'm here! It's OK! Everyone can stop panicking now! :o

Sorry all. Life just went a bit mad for a bit and I just couldn't find the energy for posting.

We have black out curtains for dd but they aren't really doing the job as her window is west facing so get direct sunlight almost exactly in time for bed. I keep wondering if adding some blinds might help bit haven't got around to getting any yet. The Velcro idea sounds good. Might go and take a look.

Dd had actually been sleeping OK recently (oops, there goes the first rule of no sleep club!). Dh and I are now able to alternate bedtimes with no noticeable difference for either of us which makes a huge difference to my sanity levels. We have reduced nap time to an hour and we have since had a few nights were she has slept from 8pm to past 5am in her own bed without even a mumble! Magic! :)

Hurrah for Hear and MiniHear!

That's great news Hear! I remember when OH was first able to do bedtime - it was such a relief as I was quite heavily pg at the time and getting her into pjs and her cot was not easy! I think its really nice for them both too - when there aren't battles that is!

I think these are the blinds. Somebody previously posted a link on the sleep board and I think they had quite good reviews. I might get them for her east facing window and see if it makes any difference.

DD1 has had another late night - just gone off about 15 minutes ago. Am wincing as she didn't go to sleep until 10pm last night (we were at a family lunch and she fell asleep in the car on the way home), was up by 6 and only had an hours nap. Nowhere near enough sleep for her so probably means another early start and a meltdown morning!

Elph, I meant to say earlier that I don't think an elective CS is in any way a cop out. Okay, so it might be easier than a very long, traumatic labour followed by an EMCS, but what isn't?! It still doesn't make it an easy option in my book. There are no easy options when it comes to birth unfortunately! (Clearly why it isn't left up to the men, as along with the having to get up at night, I think the human race would probably have died out by now!).

Oh ffs. dd up once because her duvet fell off her bed and once for a wee. DT2 up once demanding milk and once when he did a poo. DT1 aka The Terrible woke up both times I got up to dd and writhed about kicking me all night. at 3am I'd totally had it with him. Another fun day with mummy lies ahead

Blind wise I'm. so sick of the sicker for the gro blind we have ordered roller blinds for.each bedroom at huge expense. throwing money at the problem.will solve it, no?!

Sent Ann the sleep diaries for the boys which I'm now worrying about as they're not a 100% true reflection of their nights, typically but sure she doesn't want yet more emails saying "And actually..."! I'm slightly disappointed as she thinks DT1 should have cranial osteopathy first. I know you read loads of good things about it but we tried once and it seemed a load of crap to me, plus has no evidence base whatsoever. To stretch his diaphragm. I am just not convinced that's even possible- to get a long term outcome relating to less vomiting from a few stretches. My job would tell me no I think. Hey ho. We will not be racing down the CO route. no way dh would allow that bes sceptical enough as it is

Any more blissful 5 hour stretches Charlie?! long may it last.

*suckers

and hello hear 8-5 sounds lovely but do you have to get up at 5 then? I hate 5am

Cranial osteopathy to stretch his diaphragm? No, just, no. Total load of hooey. Does she know you're a physio?

Dreaming, I feel your pain! No blissful 5 hour chunks last night - in fact between the two of them I saw every bloody hour on the clock then we were up for the day at 6.45 after 45 unsuccessful minutes spent on DD1s floor trying to persuade her to go back to sleep (she so nearly went). Instead she managed to wake up DD2 who was not very happy and so the day began again with tears and tantrums from all three of us.

Not tried CO, but did find a chiropractor very helpful with both DDs breastfeeding - DD2 in particular latched much better after a session working on her mouth and jaw. He was also a massive help with my PGP with both pregnancies - first time round after months of exercises and physio had done nothing and I was barely able to walk. Second time I only needed a couple of treatments.

Of course throwing money at something solves the issue! Mostly I go for retail therapy - no more sleep and a big credit card bill but at least I have a lovely new top for DD2 to throw up on

PS I get to wake them both up at 4 am tomorrow morning (unless we're already up which is distinctly possible). I foresee major tantrums in the middle of an airport…

Still can't get over the cranial osteopathy to stretch his diaphragm. That is such balls.

The CO I took DS to a few times was also so full of non-evidence-based crap combined with utter fiction, that I chucked it in after three completely pointless sessions. 'His occiput is compressing the area of the brain which regulates his sleep...' being the sentence which totally ended any suspension of disbelief I had about the whole scam, since that's bollocks - charlie I'm a specialist occupational therapist working in neurology and neurosurgery and Dreaming's a neuro-developmental paediatric physio, so we have some professional foundation to our scepticism.

Never mind, Dreaming. I didn't go along with everything Ann said and it still worked regardless. I did find myself picking and choosing a little bit and, as anticipated, her assurances that he would naturally sleep longer have never come to fruition (wake up time has yet to consistently make it past six, naps at nursery remain little longer than an hour - although Sunday nap in his bed has become blissfully long as I've mentioned before). But the fairly consistent unbroken 10-10.5 hour stretches we now get at night are well worth smiling, nodding and ignoring some of the more daft things she has to say.

Hmm.. Those blinds do look like a good idea charlied. I currently have a load of blackout lining pinned to dd's curtains as I haven't got around to sewing it on properly. I wonder if I could unpin it and get some Velcro to do a cheap version. Her window is huge and we are rather poor at the moment. I think it would work though.

elph an elcs is in no way a cop out if it is the safest option for you and the baby. I say this as someone who planned a home birth with dd (I bought a pool and everything) and am a fully paid up member of the lentil weavers guild.

If by some terrible accident I was to have another I would give serious thought to it myself. I have a twist in my spine which makes it pretty much impossible to get a decent epidural in, I discovered this after 2 anesthetists (including a consultant) gave it 14 goes before giving up on me. Dh said it looked like I had been repeatedly shot in the back afterwards. The fact that they can't really get a needle in my spine would, I assume, make it hard to give a reliable spinal block so if a next time occurred I would have to go without anything or be knocked out.

If I ended up with another late baby and high blood pressure I think i would rather a planned elcs under general then 4 days of induction, horrendous labour with no pain relief and then risk having to do it under an emergency anyway. If it was all looking simple I would rather home birth it. I am a lady of extremes :)

dreaming have faith in the power of the mighty sleep lady! Even if she is tarnishing her otherwise sparkling imagine with this talk of cranial shenanigans. I minor blip I am sure. She will have you all sorted in no time. Maybe she had just realized the challenge she has taken on and is having a bit of a panic :o

Oh I forgot to say. When dd wakes in the morning she just climbs into our bed and usually goes back to sleep until 6. Or at least i roll over and pretend to be asleep until 6 while she wiggles about. I refuse to get up before then as a matter of principle.

Hello all, went offline for a bit as no time/energy for mumsnetting.

Had horrendous few months. Dd2 poorly with huge tonsils and adenoids obstructing her breathing at night, a few hospital admissions and her turning blue at nap time later and we are pretty sure multiple allergies is the underlying cause. Just got to wait several more months for next ent appt.

On the subject of osteopathy, I have been taking dd2 weekly and her breathing is always better afterwards. They work on her diaphragm and chest area to help her breathing as she retracts her chest whilst breathing at night due to the obstruction, but they do it directly on her ribcage not her cranium. I also saw one as a child who corrected my pelvis which was being pulled out of position by my heavy school bag, it really helped with my walking. Don't think they were cranial osteopaths though.

So where's the huge message I wrote before?! How annoying!

Sigh. I'll redo briefly. elph thanks for reassurance that despite her sudden turn to the dark side of Quack methods to help dt the T sleep Ann can hopefully still produce some results We saw a CO once. she laid her hands very, very gently on his head and announced there was some tension in his left hemipelvis and she was working on it. I immediately lost all hope and never went back.

Rubbish, I've forgotten what I even wrote about this morning now. dt the T has learnt to lean over me and press th light on my alarm clock and announce "7o'clock mummy, morning! " regardless of actual time. If it weren't 5 fucking 20 I'd think it

was funny. I sometimes refuse to stir from my bed til 6th, even 6:30 sometimes. depends how annoying his shouting and wriggling is and if I think he'll wake the others.

stitch how lovely to see you! ! isn't it funny how quite a lot of our non sleepers are allergy/intolerant types. hope dd2 is ok. how's the newest stitch doing? another sleep thief?

'Hemipelvis'? (What's even funnier is my autocorrect wanted to change that to 'hemipenis' )

Stitch! Have you tried any antihistamines with DD2 to see if they help? Would they take out her tonsils/adenoids? If my DS looks like his tonsils are going the way mine did, I shall be jumping on tables to get them taken out stat so he doesn't end up with pustulated, pitted throat lumps and ruined health from repeated infections and antibiotics before they finally excised the pigging things when I was 19 years old. Please tell us it's third time lucky on the sleep front with baby Mason?

Hi elph yes piriton is the only thing that works consistently if she is bad a night. She has ventolin and monteleukast too for suspected asthma, but she has only had one attacked triggered by mold I believe. I give piriton sometimes after food too as she keeps getting hives. Dairy is off the menu. She is on waiting list for T&A operation.

Mason has been delightful so far, but is starting to teeth plus warm nights meaning he is more thirsty so now waking lots more. Dd1 and 2 still tag teaming and jumping in to our bed so I have developed the survival strategy of leaving them with their dad and sleeping either on sofa bed or in their vacant beds.

Well, I've caved into the fatigue and I've finished work a week earlier than I had planned, but the mere thought that I don't have to battle through another day feeling like death and eating crap to try and generate energy is making me feel better already.

Has Bald popped yet?

waddle,waddle

I must say I lurk but not write-I've got a total baby brain,I'm telling you.

DS wears me down during a day,thanks fuck he sleeps through the night(with occassional wake up) and his nap saves my life at the moment-I can lie down for an hour cause I'm exhausted.

Busy,busy trying to declutter our bedroom and sort out the garden(more or less everything's planted) so packing the stuff that DS has outgrown and everyday cleaning,cooking and so on…

Elph, 200 kcal is minimum i scoffed half of creamy cheese/custard/peach strudel tonight .Our new oven has arrived yesterday and DH kindly connected it so I'm back to my beloved baking again (neapolitan cake in the oven as we speak).Sod work,week this way or another doesn't make any difference!

Stitch how nice to see you :) How are you doing and how's your youngest bundle of joy?Sorry you're having hard time with the older ones.

Dreaming what the heck is hemipelvis?In simple words please as I'm not medical professional like most of you here.

Charlied 9:30 is normal bedtime here,the later DS goes to sleep the earlier he gets up in the morning.

Hear dare to have another one?

DS is in his room and his bed,all going well so far (fingers crossed) except…he's not too keen on the other children.Everywhere we go he's clingy and forbid if I try to hold another baby(my friend's),he's not happy about that and loudly expresses his displeasure.I don't kow what I'm going to do.

39 weeks on Monday so might pop any time.DS was born at 42 weeks with the help of induction but mw said it's hardly likely that it will be the case this time.

By the way,trawling through the MN there's so many threads about induction as the work of the devil.Mine one wasn't bad and now I'm wondering whether I was so lucky(except PPH) or is it just general scaremongering stereotype.

Baby brain(and don't laugh).A friend of mine asked me what's the plan if I go into labour during the day and DH is at work.I thought about throwing hospital bag and DS into the car and driving to the hospital (40-50 mins away) to meet MIL (she takes DS) and DH who goes with me.

My friend pulled a funny face and said that I have to be bonkers to consider driving myself,what about if I have the contraction and end up on the tree? it never occurred to me

I was thinking very hard on the way to my appointment and asked the mw,she said the same as my friend, "do NOT drive,ask the neighbours or friends,if there's nobody then call an ambulance".

So my cunning plan how to get to the hospital went to hell as during the day there are just OAP's left here.

Anyway,take care ladies,all the best wishes to you,off I go to clean the worktops and walls from my baking attempts

Hello bald glad to here everything is generally OK. Or at least only crappy in the usual expected ways :)

You could keep a chunk of cash in the house and then just phone a taxi if you go into labour during the day.

I have to say that there is absolutly no way I would even consider having a second right now, probably ever. Just the thought of it makes me feel a bit sick. Dd seems to have been enough to cure me of all broodiness. I am just not really cut out for parenting. I love dd like mad but I would rather work full time then spend all day alone finding ways to amuse her. It is better now she is walking places and talking and being generally more interesting but I think having two, and going through those 2 years again, would be the death of me.

I don't think it is inductions alone that are the work of the devil. I think it is giving birth that is the work of the devil. I suspect that induction gets the bad rep because it if you are being induced you are already having a stressful time of it. You are either late or have some complication that means the birth probly isn't going to be all that quick or easy.

The lady in the bed opposite me.after i had dd (induction 30 hours after waters broke when 2nd scan proved only 25ml fluid left so she needed to be born) had also had an induction for her 3rd birth. she said the pain was unbelievable compared to her first 2 natural deliveries and just came on like a train instead of gradually building. encouraged me no end as I had been absolutely floored by pain with my induction. my neighbour has had 3 inductions at 42 weeks bald !

Dreadful nights sleep last night. dt2 sleeps through quite regularly but when he's up he's up for an hour plus. like last night. dt1 slept til midnight, maybe first time ever?! But then woke again later and wriggled about and mauled me and took ages to get to sleep. dh stayed up to watch the football and is complaining he's tired as it was his morning. All slept in til 7:50 and his turn to get up. He sent dd up to get me at 8:50 from my lie in- on my birthday too . bastard, sod father's day

Starting with Ann this week. bit worried as dt1 been refluxy and unsealed frequently recently so don't know what I'll do with that. He had to have his nap on my chest yesterday, he'd woken crying and gulping and couldn't stop crying but didn't want to open eyes after only 15 min sleep so I jiggled him to sleep and he slept on my chest. Argh!

exciting bald, can't wait for your news! I walked halfway up a hill by myself when my waters had broken but no labour started. 15 min drive to this hill. dh was really miffed and said what would you have done if you'd gone into labour? ! I hadn't been at all concerned as I just laughed and said well for a first labour it'd hardly arrive right then on the hill. dh pointed out I'd have to drive back home... hadn't thought of that! Have you got any friends nearby who could drive you? otherwise I'd say taxi too.

hear tell me more about how awful it would be. I'm still wanting #4 . I know it won't be allowed by dh. ever. yet I haven't got rid of any clothes, boy or girl. doh. We have no flipping space for.them either! !!