Misery loves company: riding the mo fo out into Part II

[ElphabaTheGreen]

In our last exciting instalments:

Needles was at breaking point with a screaming 10 mo DD

Hear had experienced the magic of ONE unbroken night!

Dreaming was continuing to confound all with her ability to manage three children on four or five minutes a night, thanks to DT the Terrible.

Stitch was still having her sleep eaten by...erm...Stitch.

Poppy was pondering how the actual fark she was going to manage a newborn on top of BabyAmex's night time shenanigans.

And the desperate Elphaba had turned night duties entirely over to DH with mastitic results.

Join us with your stories of misery and woe in this, the most sleep-deprived corner of MN!

Mine fed 2 hourly day and night for months!! DD maybe less, maybe 2-4 hourly with 4 being a rarer luxury! I rarely go a full 4 hours without eating or drinking something to be fair.

Hope you make it to a sling meet elph . If I have another baby I think I'd try a mei tai as I find getting them on my back in a winter coat by myself a real bitch- only downside of my SSC's I think . I went to our meet once but it was wrap central with not many half or full buckles about though people offered to bring some another time but I couldn't make it- but a friend of mine who wraps her twins went and loved it and went regularly. horses for courses I guess like everything else!

Right. Into the night I go. DT2 is having a bottle 6 out of 7 nights at about 2am . But he does sleep through about once a week or at least every 10 days so do I really need to try to persuade dh to stop this in advance of Ann?! I'm getting nervous because a) in some ways and for some parts I'll miss Co sleeping b) in don't know how I'm going to follow it through as I just know dh can't help in the night more than he does now and function properly at work which is pretty essential. If I go to DT2 dt1 is guaranteed to wake too and follow me, wailing... and c) I'm worried about them crying elph tell me to stop being ridiculous!?

and hear kittens! !! Majorly exciting. your dd will be over the moon though I fecking hate the cats round here shitting in my garden

I badly want a pet lamb now. We have got back from the farm holiday and our neighbours have 2 pet lambs in their garden. jealous! !

We're a confirmed dog house here. My issue with kittens us they grow up into cats. If they grew up into something more dog-like I'd join your excitement. 'Goggy' was one of DS's first words, although he saw a chihuahua in the park once, solemnly pointed at it and said, 'cat'.

Dreaming:

a) I quietly thought I'd miss co-sleeping. Nope. Not a bit. Waking up in my own bed, without having my hair pulled, or having a child lying across my face, or pinned on the edge of the bed because said child will only sleep horizontally across the bed is fecking amazing.

b) I did the lion's share of Ann's sleep work and only brought DH in in the last couple of weeks, mainly because I knew I'd be a lot more consistent than him. That said, we didn't have three to deal with so maybe your DH will have to help more. But you know what? I bet there's plenty of female GPs out there who manage not to kill anybody after an interrupted night's sleep. Also, I thought that having an uninterrupted night's sleep was pretty essential to starting a brand new, full time specialist therapist post when DS was 8 months old, with a 45 minute commute at each end. Despite him being on a minimum of 6-8 wake-ups a night (more than your DH will ever have to deal with, I'll wager) for most of the year and a bit I've been there, I've barely had a non-pregnancy-related day off sick, I haven't injured or killed anyone and I had a glowing annual appraisal. Your DH will cope with it, I'm sure.

c) Much to both Ann's and my utter shock, DS cried very little during the whole process. Very little. The 'crying' that has happened has been toddler tantrums because he hasn't wanted to walk back to bed, hasn't wanted to go back to sleep at dark-o'clock, not abandonment 'I need comfort and cuddles' crying. I could count on the fingers of one hand the number of those we've had. I assume the DTs fling paddies regularly during the day that you will just leave them to get out of their systems from time to time if it's something totally unreasonable they want? Same thing here, just happens to be at night. You'll have plenty of opportunity to let Ann know about DT the T's reflux - she asks quite specifically about medical conditions which may affect sleep - and how crying can kick off a vom.

Do you want me to email you Ann's sleep diary documentation so you can have it ready for her the day you start work with her? The sooner she has it the sooner you can actually start the work rather than waiting a few days to get the sleep diary done, then a couple more days while she does her assessment.

Yes please elph. I am now grimly determined. DT2 Is being a total TOAD at night, in hindsight building up since he's been in a bed and even (definitely) before. DH has had 2 horrendous nights on the trot. In the night he will not go back into his bed (or cot before this, that hasn't changed) so DH is co sleeping in a single bed with a wriggly horizontal toddler and I have realised that yes, sleeping on the edge while being taloned by DT the Terrible isn't fun. And having him get up every time I need a wee and having to get him back to sleep. And the rest. But they will both be up, every night, and they are in sseparate bedrooms so I don't see how I can do it alone? DH will not be consistent, especially on a work night.

But no, I never leave them to have a tantrum. DT2, he's a sensitive soul, he'd be heartbroken. He's quite reasonable. I'll pick him up and talk to him, tell him I know he's so cross about x, y and z but it's time to go/put it away/ put our clothes on etc. Sometimes turn it into a game but mostly he needs understanding and a cuddle. DT1, he'd vom if left and gets completely distraught so I do the same with him, Sometimes talk him out of it, sometimes chase him and catch him and make it a game 'hey you, nappy escaper, I'll catch you and do it!!' etc or sometimes carry him around the garden til he's calmed down. It's working better than what I was doing before but they're literally never left to cry alone...

I think you're superhuman doing all that on so little sleep. I definitely couldn't have done that. I'm gobsmacked- especially not just coping but getting glowing annual review. A round of applause to you

DH worries. He says he finds himself asking people the same question twice because he can't remember the first answer. He might check 50 bloods a day and has missed an abnormal one once- luckily it was spotted before disaster but he has The Fear of missing something and doesn't function well on poor sleep. My GP successfully sleep trained her DS at 6 months with cc or cio though I bet others have bad sleepers- but some people definitely function better than others on less sleep and my theory is insomniacs are better than others at this (being disproved at present with my insomniac dad) I used to have lots of trouble but am currently tired enough not to and actually, though i know I used to be miles better than DH without sleep on a day to day basis I'm not sure of that now... I've been snappy and irritable to the children recently. Anyway, I digress. I'm rambling.

I agree with your DS anyway elph A chichuahua is not a real dog.

I am also a complete softy and don't leave dd to tantrum, except a couple of occasions when she has had complete irrational meltdowns when anything I do just makes it worse, so I have had to just stand there trying not to move for a few minutes and then quietly offer her food or bedtime, as it is usually hunger or tiredness that causes these. Thankfully she is becoming much more self aware now so if she starts showing signs of going off I can just sit down and ask if she is hungry or tired and she will usually tell me what she needs. I haven't had one of those for a while now.

I did try letting her rage it out a few nights with the SMBD plan but it was just stressful and horrid for everyone so I have stopped now. It has made things slower I think but I am less stressed every evening. Now if she starts crying with me over the other side of the room I will reassure her from where I am and if that doesn't work I will go over and give her a back rub and maybe a little cuddle until she calms down and then go back to my place. She is settling down again quicker every night, so now I just need a few seconds of back rub then leave her again, and often just a word will do the job. We are getting there, slowly with lots of ups and downs but vaguely in the right direction most of the time...I think :)

See, there is nothing - nothing - that will calm DS down if he really goes off on one, so all we can do for our own sanity is leave him to it in a supervised-yet-ignoring manner. This morning, DH poured him some milk from the open carton in the door of the fridge. DS wanted it from the unopened carton on the top shelf of the fridge. He flipped. Completely postal. DH tried to hand him the cup of the offending milk and it got smacked out of his hand across the room. If you tried to pick him up in this situation, he'd kick and flail and do that magic toddler ooze where you have a good grip on the trunk, which suddenly becomes armpits, then wrists then nothing and you're left with a screaming puddle on the ground. We try and give him basic verbal explanations, complete with demonstrations, if want he wants is not possible or appropriate but 'reasonable' is really not part of DS's make-up, and it makes no difference. Other times, he'll want to be picked up when it's impossible or dangerous to do so e.g. when I'm stirring something in a hot spattering pan or draining pasta. If DH isn't home to distract him, I have no choice but to leave him to rage until I've got the dangerous thing out of the way. We did deliberately leave him to scream for a couple of minutes tonight because he sunk his teeth skin-breakingly hard into DH's shoulder, not once but twice, about an hour apart. DH put him down immediately afterwards and walked away each time for about a minute, which made DS absolutely scream, but DH was in serious pain, and we do not want to re-enforce biting with a cuddle.

Dreaming You're going to have to have stern words with your DH about being consistent, or else you'll be wasting your money. I'm sure Ann will have some good advice about how to manage things like that, though. I've emailed you the sleep assessment forms for you to get a head-start on.

Hear What you're describing is exactly what I did with DS and everything stayed 'on schedule'. As soon as he started to get upset while I was still sitting in his room, I'd give a reassuring pat and shh until he calmed down and I'd go back to where I was. I never let him get really cross. We only got lengthy(ish) rages at the point where I was expecting him to walk himself back to his own bed. One metre is far too great a distance for little legs to traverse, don't you know?

elph , now you mention it DT the T does have some paddies like the fridge one. I have to wait til he's calm enough to intervene too. Horrible to watch! I'll have stern words with him but hopefully I can do it mostly myself. DT the N-S-A has slept through- properly through as in 8pm-6:30am the last 2 night. The first one DT the T did well too (in my bed of course). BUt DD woke up 3 times, got in bed with me once while I tried to hiss at her not to wake DT the T under ANY circumstances. Then took her for a wee. Then hollered an hour later 'as I need a cuddle'. Sigh.

Tonight DD popped downstairs at 8:45pm with a burning desire to look at wedding pics- her aunties when she was a flower girl in September and mine. She's not long back in bed now.

Sleep children, sleep.

Yup, we get plenty of those too. Usually over a biscuit requested (Bishit mummy. Bishit peese. BISHIT. WAAAAH etc) immediately before breakfast/lunch/tea. Or over not being allowed to draw all over the table/wall/sofa. Or if I don't pick her up when I'm juggling DD2 and cooking. Sometimes if I just go to the loo!

I usually let her get on with it for a few minutes then try and distract her. Yesterday Baby (her favourite doll rather than her baby sister!) also got down on the floor, screamed and kicked her legs. DD1 tried to keep tantrumming but pretty quickly gave up and giggled instead.

We seem to be in the middle of sleep regression no. 1001 (or so it feels). Bedtimes had been slowly improving and a few nights she was even back to going straight to bed on lights on, no whimpers or calls at all. Most nights she was sleeping through again. And now it has all gone again. Yet again. Currently listening to shouts of mummy, mummy. Been in once when there was proper tears (she'd dropped teddy) but trying to ignore the calls. Not sure if it is the right thing to do or not. Last night I gave up at 9.30 and sat in her room until she fell asleep at nearly 10 pm. Then she was up at 2am for about 15 mins then came into our bed at 5.50.

Am dreading DD2 going through the horrendous 5 month sleep regression that DD1 did (seems scarily common from threads on here) if DD1 is also being a nightmare still!

Elphaba, did Ann give you any particular tips for travelling? We do all the usual stuff like taking pretty much her entire bed, same toys, bedding, music etc and give her a chance to play in her holiday bedroom before bed but it still always seems to go completely to pot! Am off to Spain for a week at my Mum's next month then we're all going to France for a week in July. Just wondered if she had some sort of magic spell or something (I'll pretty much try anything when it comes to DD1's sleep!)

Phew, finally seems to have gone quiet….

Fingers crossed for everyone to get a good night!

No, I haven't had any tips on travelling because I don't travel. That's DH's bag. My excuse is I'm an Australian. I'm 10,000 miles away from home, I don't need to travel any further, thanks. That, and DS's sleep has been so unutterably shit up until this point, that the mere thought of combining the exhaustion of travelling with no sleep, plus probably having to book a hotel room with two beds so that I could co-sleep with DS to stop his screams from waking to he other occupants means travelling wouldn't exactly have the relaxing and restorative effects it's supposed to have. His ability to sleep is still so very recent, I'd still be way too nervous to attempt travelling for fear of upsetting everything.

Bishit Biscuit is 'bic-bis' to DS, but 'bin' is 'bum' and he likes to clink glasses with you and say, 'Cheers!' but it comes out as, 'Jizz!'

At bedtime on a couple of nights now he's lain there after I've turned out the lights calling, 'Help! Heeeelp! Help!' It's a little disarming, but he's not distressed, doesn't get up and is asleep in minutes. I think it's just his latest word.

Ridiculous afternoon here. My twin mum superpower is being able to push two smarttrikes so took my lot to the Dr to collect a prescription fpr dt the T reflux stuff and on to the playground. where I realised we were all knackered. I tried ice lollies. Tantrums. Patience. No where. So I basically carried dd, pushed 2 smart trikes and hoiked a scooter after dd tried but was so tired, fell off twice and hurt herself after she already bruised her cheek really badly at pre school this morning. 4th blood injury of the week. Bad night last night. FGS.

Thanks for the documents elph. I'll start completing them even though I don't know when I'll arrive at the top of the waiting list.

Ah yes, those tantrums feel very familiar! We do get less now dd's language and understanding is getting better and better. Tiredness is definitely the main offender. If she is tired she just gets all irrational. The worst was on a bus journey when she spent the entire journey screaming at the top of her lungs and trying to climb under the seats. It was rather mortifying

I can sympathise with your traveling stance elph. My DM has very kindly given us some money for a short holiday but I just can't quite summon the energy to sort anything out. It just seems so much hassle.

The kittens are here! The are so cute! Dd has already had a meltdown because we won't let her harass them yet. Luckily dmil had bought her a mini trampoline that we have just put up so hoping that will be a distraction... either that our it will all be too damn exciting and she will implode. Me and dh are going out tonight as well. Dd's key worker from nursery is babysitting. Gosh, it's like Christmas round here :o

Sounds great hear! Christmas indeed! Farm stay. I'm telling you. I can't remember where you are in the country again but probably too far away for the Scotland place we just went to (though it's very south Scotland). it's probably still lamb feeding time if you go sharpish ;) Mine had such a blast. I thought it'd be he'll and it was tiring but overall fun. www.farmstay.co.uk. I think.

And seeing Charlie say she takes her dd1 whole bedding makes me realise I'm quite lax like that. No playing in bedroom before bedtime really. Just stuck in the new bed with a familiar cuddly. DD has always been fine travelling. Boys are a different story, natch.

And actually I'm finding age 3 harder than age 2. she's very defiant at present. The violence continues unabated. she was kicking both boys in the face today as they tried to climb up to the den part of the climbing frame to get down the slide. She was doing this repeatedly til we raced over to rescue. Sigh.

Anyway. Finally. I win the bedtime battle. Later guys.

Completely lost the plot with OH this morning. DD1 is still waking up at least once a night and he wouldn't get up either Friday night or last night (despite not being able to play the work card as its a weekend). Then after much nagging he finally got up and took both kids downstairs for breakfast so I could go back to sleep. He brought them both back up 45 minutes later so he could have a shower. 45 minutes. FFS.

Turned into raging, sweary monster. In front of both DDs. Suspect that DD1's next new word may begin with an 'F'…

Dreaming, I take all of DD1's bedding/toys etc but frankly it doesn't make the blindest bit of difference - she always has a massive regression either while we are away or once we are back. So I'm really looking forward to the three trips away we have planned over the next few months…

Hear, hope you had a great night out! How did the babysitting go? DD1 is only just learning not to harass our cat at 26 months. No doubt the poor thing will only have a couple of months break before DD2 works out there is a moving cuddly toy in the house!

Elph, chuckle at "jizz" - the best toddlerism I have ever heard was "dumb fuck" for "dump truck"! I also have to stifle a smile whenever DD1 tells MiL loudly and clearly to "shit Ganny"

charlie Not once but twice when DS was tiny, DH pulled me out of desperately needed lie-ins because he needed to go to the toilet and couldn't conceive of how he was going to look after DS. I swear to Christ he thinks I pass the child to the nanny when he's not around.

Charlie losing the plot is totally acceptable on an occasional basis . I have said the f word in a sweary rage multiple times and so far so good. Though the boys did go round happily repeating "crap! crap! crap!" to themselves- thank goodness that only lasted one day. my dh acted like a total martyr for getting up with the dc at 6:30 this morning as has proceeded to go about how tired he is and how he had them for 3 hours before I was downstairs and ready. erm, yes. He knows I take forever to get back to sleep and that I was really tired. he'd let them watch an hour of TV. All children therefore really grumpy and I had to work my arse off just to get them dressed without too much rage . We then had a fairly dismal day out despite good weather due to dc all wanting to do . different things (surprise surprise) so none being really content with the compromises along the way. Harumph. My dh had done breakfast and doesn't come up when he needs a wee but he does really struggle to manage them without winding them all up into a screaming rage. Then I suggest how he might handle. them better, he gets huffy, the day proceeds from there. At night he just hands me dt the T. I nipped to the post box at 9:45 the other night and bumped into our ex nanny and he'd rung me by 9:55 as he couldn't handle the first wakeup.

Oh and my friend realised today what her 3 year old was saying. she's been calling her 8 month old brother 'fat cunt' but she's trying to say ' fat chunk' . My friend says she's relieved despite it still sounding like the former and being ongoing

Sorry-last one. DT the T has had 2 allergic type skin reactions this week. This time I've given piriton

Dreaming, snorted out loud at 'fat cunt/chunk'! And OH wonders why I'm 'always' (his words) on mumsnet, honestly it keeps me (almost ) sane!

At least DD1 went down well tonight - she was exhausted after an early nap and lots of playing with two older toddlers all afternoon.

Hope the piriton makes DT the T crash out for a solid 12 hours feel better soon.

DH's idea of 'child care' is to park DS in front of CBeebies for hours on end or to strap the poor little energetic monkey into his pram and walk him around town for ages, both with the aim of getting him to nap at a ridiculously early hour, so he can do what he feels like doing. When I suggest something mutually interactive like running around the garden with him, playing with his train set, taking him out for a drink in a cafe or a run in the park, he looks pained and put upon, and doesn't understand why I'm not lauding his supreme parenting skills when DS is passed out on the sofa at 10am. He adores DS, but his style of parenting is most definitely lethargic at best.

We're neither of us arguers, but he nearly got a knife through his ear the other day when he informed me that the reason I've sorted my working hours to be 8-4pm is so I can get home, give DS to mum and play on my iPhone for an hour before he gets home Once again, he thinks we have a cook, a laundress and a nanny (and mum has not been in any fit state to look after DS by herself for months) who provide a hot dinner for him when he gets through the door, cooks a meal for my mum, gets through mounds of dirty washing, all while stopping DS from killing himself and/or the dogs, after having done a full day at work. I did get a sincere apology later, I hasten to point out.

Men, eh?

That'd drive me.wild elph!

However today I will refrain from passing any further comments as I have displayed some spectacularly APPALLING parenting. I took them to the zoo to meet my old manager. Mistake one. Got home really late after last minute bad fall from DT the T (huge bleeding head wound, of course he vomited over us both etc etc) . Mistake two. I feel really really knackered today. Lost my temper completely at tea time and absolutely screamed at the dc. Mistake three (not just walking away til I'd calmed down wrought to ignore them screaming in fun and throwing food bloody everywhere) And still shouted again at bedtime. I am.ashamed

Nursery let dd sleep from 12.40 to 3.20pm today, which means dd gets mentally exhausted from a day at nursery but is still physically wide awake. Cue general emotional meltdown when she can't get to sleep. Dh is in with her now as I lost it after an hour.

Oh dear dreaming. Hope you have plenty of chocolate in to numb the pain. Always works a treat on my general feelings of inadequacy and parental guilt :o

Will you have to try not to murder the nursery staff tomorrow hear?!

Do you think I've scarred my lovely dc for life ? Feeling hugely guilty. I have eaten half a discovered stashed free from easter egg and chocolate spread on toast still feel as bad. must be serious.

Hear I've started calculating DS's start-of-bedtime-routine from the length of his naps. One hour or less - 7pm. One to 1.5 hours - 7:15pm. 1.5 to 2 hours - 7:30pm at the earliest. 2 hours or more - start looking for tired signs around 7:45pm but probably wait til 8pm. He decides how long his bath is, then I'll organise six books to read. Tonight, he decided to get into bed after three cue me pretending it had nothing to do with the alcohol in the cough linctus I gave him, but night before last I let him have 9. Post-Ann, he's got into the habit of having minimum two hour naps if he has them in his bed at home, I guess because it's very dark and quiet, unlike nursery where he rarely goes past an hour. I freaked out a bit when he started doing this, but with the above bed time adjustments, it hasn't affected his night sleep, and the opportunity to pass up a long nap myself at the same time (pretty much only ever on a Sunday) is just too, too delicious, especially in my current third-trimester dead-on-my-feet state. We've got him at home for his birthday tomorrow, and I think I'm looking forward to the nap more than taking him to the park with his new balance bike!

Dreaming 'Bad parenting' involves neglect, abuse and persistent can't-be-arsedness, not going to the zoo and occasional vents of frustration. Chocolate as Hear said and reminding yourself of the genuinely crappy parents I know you would have come across when you worked in paeds will help enormously.

elph the problem is with long naps at nursery is that she is mentally exhausted and so asks to go to bed and makes all the tired signs but she just can't settle. She than gets really tired and frustrated. Last night she was getting all upset saying 'i'm sleepy mummy, but I can't sleep, but I'm sleepy!'. If we keep her up we get an emotional melt down but if we put her to bed she can't sleep. Poor muffin! I wouldn't have minded if she would just stay up for an extra hour.

I wouldn't worry dreaming I think that as long as they are fed, watered and cared for the first 5 years is practice. They won't remember it :)

In case you think I've gone smug with all this sleeping, DS is having teeth troubles and gave us a craptacular night last night. Given that he's been slightly manic, clingy and just generally weird all evening, I'm expecting more of the same tonight. Height of his weirdness was to reach down my top, yank out a boob and latch on The child who hasn't been breastfed in seven months, although still hangs on to or purposely rests on boobs when cuddling. Not that he has the faintest clue how to latch properly anymore (I felt like the straw on a juice box), but I think it was a pretty obvious indication that he was looking for some sort of reliable comfort and relief from something. Either that, or the colostrum I'm starting to produce is triggering primitive scent-memories I'll be fascinated to see what his reaction will be to his little brother having unrestricted boob access. I predict a riot.