Misery loves company: riding the mo fo out into Part II

[ElphabaTheGreen]

In our last exciting instalments:

Needles was at breaking point with a screaming 10 mo DD

Hear had experienced the magic of ONE unbroken night!

Dreaming was continuing to confound all with her ability to manage three children on four or five minutes a night, thanks to DT the Terrible.

Stitch was still having her sleep eaten by...erm...Stitch.

Poppy was pondering how the actual fark she was going to manage a newborn on top of BabyAmex's night time shenanigans.

And the desperate Elphaba had turned night duties entirely over to DH with mastitic results.

Join us with your stories of misery and woe in this, the most sleep-deprived corner of MN!

Google 'four month sleep regression' bumpies, and all will be revealed

Welcome bumpies, I'm also 'enjoying' a four month sleep regression with DD2 (and one with DD1 who is 2 and who gave up sleep for Lent but hasn't figured out yet that Easter has been and gone...)

Fingers crossed your DS will go back to being a great sleeper soon (and at least one of my two will do some sleeping...)

I'm mostly just hoping DD2 doesn't follow in her sisters footsteps - 5.5 months was the absolute worst time I can remember in her entire chequered sleep history...

Elph, how's it going? Any more upchucks? Are you stuck in the bathroom for the night or was it a case of too much broccoli (well you never know )

Oh charlie, did you not give her enough chocolate?!

We are on feed no. two. I'm going to co sleep for the rest if the night as bending over to pick him up has killed my back

I can't imagine how I would survive being pregnant with a toddler. I really wasn't one of these glowing types, I was a massive, achy, furious mess. I'm not sure dd or dh would survive, so hats off to youelph just for getting through each day with everyone still alive.

bumpies, elph is right, you have a classic case of 4 month regression with a growth spurt thrown in for fun. Don't feel bad about just spending a day in front of the TV with lots of cake, feeding and cuddling your D's. Sometimes that is just what is needed to get everyone through. :)

Well, we have some success with the SMBD plan. Last night I read books, tucked her in and then sat on the other side of the room while she went to sleep. Not so good: it took the best part of an hour. Argh! But no crying and no crocodiles.

No more chucks, thank Christ, and after passing out immediately following spew-mageddon he slept until 5:45 then slept some more until 7. He's eaten a piece of toast, a large bowl of bran flakes and two cups of milk and will probably demand a banana shortly so hopefully it was just gluttony last night. Broccoli charlie? I wish. Try pizza and wedges

Well done on the progress, Hear! Do the same thing in the same position for three or four more nights, then sit in the doorway. A stair gate across the door might help with the crocodile situation?

Hello! We are leaving farm heaven

I spent a significant amount of time looking for dt2's comforter rabbit (na-na) at 2 ish last night then about an hour comforting him that na-na was back and faddy did love him as he cried for daddy for aaaages (I really hate being the inadequate parent). I'd made dh sleep with dt the T but it was negated by that really.

I don't remember any periods that were anything other than hell when my boys were under 1. I don't do pregnancy well either. I have yet to make it past 8 weeks without anti emetics and diarolyte on prescription. Poor dd spent a LOT of time playing in the bathroom with me while I vomited a lot. I struggled to drive with it too with the boys, was much worse with them. poor dd. my mum or dad would come and take her out once a week and I'd feel even more guilty as I was missing out on 1:1 time with her which I knew I'd never get once twins arrived. In fact, I really, really hate being pregnant. nothing but illness and worry about the baby/babies for me. (adds to list of Why Not To Have #4)

bumpies welcome! I hope that baby growth spurts quickly and gets back to sleeping ASAP. 4 hour blocks please. Show us how it's done!

oh- and thank goodness no more spewing elph

And vegetables. ha! No veg is eaten by any child in my house. Or crusts. In fact they eat bloody terribly, my worst parenting area and if you told me I'd feed my dc this when dd was 1 before she went fussy I'd have scoffed at you but they eat:
All: chicken nuggets and waffles and peas for decorative purposes only
sausages and wedges and decorative peas
pasta and sun dried tomato pesto

Boys: homemade korma with rice
spaghetti bol

Dd: pasta and cheese sauce, scrambled egg with cheese.

That is it. dreadful. and Dd loves to bake so now the Terrible twin can tolerate egg we do lots of baking so add in cake, cake and more cake. I'm crap at baking but dairy intolerance has forced me into it. They drink squash too . normal, not super weak though getting them. .into water between meals. Argh, 'proud' parenting...

Good news with the lack of vomit elph!

dreaming have you tried doing some vegetable muffins while you are baking? Shove some carrot in and you can tell yourself that it's a healthy cake :o

Hello ladies,

I am lurking!

I liked being pregnant and think I had it easy. Felt a bit rough but only sick a few times and after IVF and two miscarriages each puke was welcome in a way. I can't bear the thought that that might be my only pregnancy but dh not keen for more!

Hear the sounds great. We tried sitting by cot the other night. One shouted for a few mins then fell asleep. Awake two hours later and screamed bloody murder. The other didn't sleep so sfter twenty mins I caved and boobed, I know I know! I just don't do crying....or sleeping apparently!

Elphaba would love to know whether or what you would do differently next time round? do you think it just is all my fault they don't sleep and I should get tough? Does Ann take a no cry approach?

to all xx

Bestbees I have grand plans as to what I will do differently next time, but whether they actually happen or not is something else entirely. I could make a world-class drinking game out of the long list of things I was/wasn't going to do before DS was born, then ended up doing exactly the opposite when reality hit. I'm sure it will be exactly the same with DS2!

No, it is not your fault they don't sleep. Babies sleep or babies do not sleep. Parental influence has nothing to do with it. I've got into so much mud-slinging on MN with smug mothers of sleeping babies who think it's their marvellous parenting skills that I now force myself to avoid the sleep boards entirely or else I'll get banned.

Ann isn't 'no cry', and she does stress that on her website and all through her documentation. She is definitely not walk out of the room and leave to cry. If DS kicks off about not going back to his bed, I stand where he can see me so that it is a perfectly reasonable expressing of objection about the situation directly to me, albeit without eye contact from me. I don't enter into a battle or an argument with him, physical restraint beyond the stair gate across the door is definitely a no-no (e.g. no pinning him into his bed or wrestling him back in), and he invariably gets bored after he's said (well, shouted) his piece, gets back into bed of his own accord and immediately goes to sleep. Ann is very good about explaining different reactions babies/toddlers have and what's a healthy venting of emotion vs distress. The former is helpful to the sleep process, the latter most definitely isn't.

I cannot conceive of DS eating vegetable muffins. His excellent fine motor skills would be practiced on every identifiable piece of vegetable, no matter how microscopic, extracted, thrown on the floor, then the remainder of the muffin lobbed across the room. I made the most glorious strawberry and almond cheesecake sponge cake last week (cover recipe of this month's Good Food mag if you're interested) and that's how he treated it. Strawberry chunks in it, don't you know. Might get vitamin C toxicity and interrupt his determined path to scurvy

He didn't notice that he ingested some millimetre-square cubes of onion and pepper with his pasta tonight, despite his best efforts to shovel all of the sauce onto my plate. I felt like leaping up and saying, 'Ah-HA! Foiled!' But I didn't.

Urg, our sleep pattern is getting worse.

Two good naps then 3.5hrs after bedtime is first feed, then 2hr in between, 1:45, 1:36 then 1hr then 45mins ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhjhjjjjjjhhhh

Oh Bumpies poor you! I do sympathise, we've all been there!

< hesitates to say anything in case of jinxes, then whispers > we actually had quite a good night last night - DD1 slept through for second night in a row and DD2 woke at 11, 1 and 2 for feeds then woke again at 3 and I patted her back to sleep and she slept until OH got up at 6.30 and woke her up (git) for a cycling race (?!!).

That's 3.5 whole hours!! That's almost a sleep cycle!

Think that is the longest she has done so far! (obviously never to be repeated!).

Then DD1 woke at 7, came into bed for a snuggle and went back to sleep until 9am and DD2 went back off too so I got more sleep!

Feel like a new woman today!

Elphaba and Bestbees, had to chuckle at the "do it all differently next time" discussion - I was determined that I would be really on it this time with sleeping in the crib from the get go, learning to self-settle, routines, yadda yadda.

Then reality struck - (a) its totally impossible to stick to any sort of routine with a toddler in tow, (b) DD2 was a total crib (or anywhere other than me) refusenik for several weeks - in fact, any attempt to put her down anywhere resulted in howling. For as long as it took to be picked up again. So in the day, she lived in a sling, and at night, she slept on my chest (at around 1/2am after up to 3 hours of being jiggled).

Now, at 17 weeks, she does go to sleep in her crib but with patting and dummy, and stays there most of the night but is usually in with me from 5am ish. At some point I'll probably have to lose the dummy and try and do gradual retreat or something but for now, life with toddler and baby is all about survival!

charlie This is why I get into such knock-down-drag-outs on the subject because I did do everything 'right' (cot for all night sleeps and naps from day one, bedtime routine from days old, tried to 'teach' self settling...ha! What a myth!...from a few weeks) with DS and it only made him worse. And worse. And much worse. Babies are hard-wired to sleep or not, end of. I'll have it easy with DS2 as DS1 will continue to go to nursery full time so as not to disrupt his routine which will give me another crack at (not) doing the right thing again. Or sit on my arse on the sofa, feeding and watching box sets. Probably the latter

bumpies Is two naps enough for a four month old? Trotting out sleep theories here, he shouldn't be awake for longer than 1.5-2 hours at a stretch at that age, which should work out to about three naps. That was a theory that did actually work with DS, in terms of his mood at least. If he woke up at 6am, I'd wrap him up in a blanket around 7:30am, stick him on the boob and knock him out, either sleeping on my lap or, if I got really lucky, I could slide him into his cot or pram. Then, from when he woke up, I'd count another 1.5 to 2 hours. Blanket and boob would sometimes be replaced with pram or car. It did jack-shit for his night time sleep, but it did make bedtimes a bit easier as it avoided him reaching the overtired screamy phase. Sometimes sorting out decent day time naps can help with night time sleep. So I've heard. In theory.

Elpha, good advice. He had a couple of 30min naps as well as 2 2hr naps. I think we are putting him down too late so tonight sees the bath/story/boob and sleep in crib by 8:30 routine again! He used to do that and sleep till 1:30/2!! Why do they change so often? urg

Yes, yes! To the 1.5 hours between naps advice. One of the best bits of advice I got from mn think. Didn't help night sleep but got everyone through the day in one piece.

I was definitely in the sitting on my arse on the sofa watching box sets parenting club when dd was little. I didnt do any of the 'right things' when it came to sleep. Yes dd is a crap sleeper but no worse the elph's ds or any number of other DC whose parents did all the right things. I have no regrets about just doing what made us all happy at the time as I really don't believe it would have made a jot of difference if I had done anything else.

Dammit, wrote really long post and bloody computer ate it somehow!

Yes, not too long awake is important for sanity all round. DD2 has very little routine as its so bloody hard with a toddler in tow, but I try and make sure she isn't up for longer than about 1.5 hrs. Sometimes 2 later in the day. Bumpies, maybe try working bedtime from the last nap rather than a set time? DD2 sometimes goes down with DD1, sometimes not if naps haven't worked like that. If there is time and she isn't too tired, she goes down in the crib, otherwise I bung her in the sling and carry on and she snoozes happily in there.

Elphaba - as much sofa time as you can manage I reckon, and don't forget the chocolate either!

I do agree re sleepers/non-sleepers. I tried hard (most of the time!) with DD1 to get her to cot-sleep, self settle etc but still ended up with her being a crap sleeper for a very long time. Now, some nights are good - the last two nights she has gone through till 7 am (and then dozed off again on me), and others bad. OH is a rubbish sleeper, as is his mother and apparently grandmother was too. I knew it was all his fault .

What sling do you use charlie? I wanted to get along to a sling library/meet before I grew a bump, but I didn't get around to it. Part of my Grand Plans are getting to a sling meet once DS2 is here but I need contingency plans.

Thanks guys. We've had a lovely day with many cat naps! He's asleep now and I plan to try to cluster till 10!!!!!

I use a Hana sling which is a stretchy wrap. it's awesome and DS loves it!

I have two - a caboo which is like a cross between a stretchy wrap and a ring sling and a Babyhawk buckle carrier, but that is for slightly bigger babes as its from 15lb. DD2 has just started going in that one.

I'd definitely recommend a sling library if you can get to one - different slings/carriers suit different people/babies. I like the caboo because it is pretty idiot proof to put on (I can vouch for that!) and easy to get baby in and out. But it does put a lot of weight on your upper back so not great if you suffer with a bad back or have a very heavy baby. Also DD2 hates having her head tucked in so i have to use my left arm to support her head when she sleeps which i don't with the buckle carrier. Can you borrow one or two as a contingency? If I had my time again and being more confident now with baby wearing I'd be quite tempted with a mei tie.

Thank you to whom ever suggested hugging when lo wakes. I tried that last night and he slept better with only 3 wake ups between 11 and 6! I have started at not feeding more frequently than 2 hrly and will slowly move to 3 then 4! He is a little bugger as he went straight off after the cuddle wake! will deal with boulder boobs later

I wrote a sling post which hasn't appeared!! dammit. Anyway, I didn't get on too well with a Moby wrap but used a boba 3G from birth and now use that and a Dream Carrier. I like my dream carrier best at the minute it's prettier but do wish I could wrap. wouldn't be much use now I think, I do too many quick up and downs and so love my full buckles. Definitely elph you totally need a carrier. In the baby days I'd be guaranteed a twin strapped to my back by 8am...

hooray bumpies! Mine would never dream of going back to sleep without milk. dt2 still doesn't and he's 25 months

I love the look of the Hana but isn't it a bit fiddly to get on and off? The Caboo looks a bit like the Hana but without the origami to get it on...gives me an idea of what styles to ask for if I get to go to the sling meet once DS2 is here.

Is less feeding a good idea if your DS is going through a growth spurt, bumpies? Do you only mean spacing the feeds at night?

I have a ring sling I got for about £20 off amazon. I've used it constantly since dd was newborn and love it. Best £20 I spent I think. We rarely use a pram at all as I find it much easier for getting on and of busses and it packs up so small it's no bother when you don't need it. I still use it most days when dd gets tired of walking.

Oh, completely off subject but I just have to say, we're getting kittens! On Saturday! I'm so excited I might explode :o

oooooo kittens!!

Yes, I mean to space them out. I wouldn't get away with not feeding if he really wanted it?? lo seems to be on a constant GS. He has been doing this for almost half his life!!