Misery loves company: riding the mo fo out into Part II

[ElphabaTheGreen]

In our last exciting instalments:

Needles was at breaking point with a screaming 10 mo DD

Hear had experienced the magic of ONE unbroken night!

Dreaming was continuing to confound all with her ability to manage three children on four or five minutes a night, thanks to DT the Terrible.

Stitch was still having her sleep eaten by...erm...Stitch.

Poppy was pondering how the actual fark she was going to manage a newborn on top of BabyAmex's night time shenanigans.

And the desperate Elphaba had turned night duties entirely over to DH with mastitic results.

Join us with your stories of misery and woe in this, the most sleep-deprived corner of MN!

Putting to bed, I meant..

Well, we go swimming on Saturdays at 1pm which means his nap needs to be a bit earlier than he would normally have it - the only way to do that is in the car.

On Sundays and non-swimming Saturdays, we do sometimes try it in his room. We got two for two this weekend - both naps in his bed in his room Ann's advice is that you pull the curtains and do a mini-bedtime routine. If he sleeps, he sleeps, but if he doesn't you have 40 minutes of quiet play, ending with a fairly elaborate opening of curtains and raising of energy to signify the ending of 'nap time'. Ann's theory is that he should eventually able to be left by himself in his room to nap if he wants to, or have quiet play for a while. I do not see that happening in this lifetime, just as his naps have not 'naturally' lengthened to two hours during this process (if he breaks one hour, I know he's coming down with something) nor has his nighttime sleep lengthened as she said it would a he became more comfortable in his own room and bed. Just after 8 until just before 6 is his average, with a 45 minute nap, which not even heavy narcotics would change IMO. Her advice has been brilliant and effective, but not everything is spot on.

Also, I do kind of plan the day around whether he does the nap in his room or not - if he doesn't nap, we don't go out in the car for the rest of the day as he'd just end up napping too late, and I'd rather he didn't nap at all than do that. It's also sometimes just easier to plan a car nap if we want/need to go somewhere e.g. in-laws wanting us to come for Sunday lunch. We'd rather leave an hour early and drive around for an hour, then have a pleasant lunch at a reasonable time with a happy child, rather than have a really late lunch for the sake of getting DS to sleep in his room, or have to cancel altogether because we couldn't get him asleep in his room and don't want to risk him falling asleep in the car on the way there or, worse, on the way home.

I've found that dd would often be happy to nap for 2 hours but if I let her go over 1 to 1.5 hours she is guaranteed to wake up at 3am for hours and hours. We end up having to wake her up from her nap and have had to instruct nursery to do the same.

I also often cuddle her to sleep at nap time as if I don't it can take ages for her to settle and then she's a mess later on.

I was starting to wonder if I was wrong to do this and if I let her settle herself and have 2 hours she would somehow start sleeping more at night despite all evidence to the contrary.

I'm sort of relived you aren't doing it as I really don't know if I have the energy for trying to sort naps as well as evenings.

Naps. Those bloody things you have to plan your life around. I'm actually relieved others do too. When I just had dd I did the not going out in the car thing too. Now if there's 2 adults we go anyway. One keeps dc awake. dt2 rarely sleeps in the car anyway. If it's just me I do all in my power to get naps in. Unfortunately, in the younger days when they both just screamed I just gave them boob, together, dt the T down then the other. now I just stick a bottle in their mouths and leave them . I cam just give dt2 a cuddle, little bit of milk, story and he goes to sleep by himself in his cot. dt1 milk. always. They sleep at 11am though, just put them down. For a long time we did NO full days out as dt1 sleeps in the car easily, dt2 doesn't, it was a logistical nightmare and all went wrong so often we stopped. dt2 is sleeping a bit easier in the car now. sometimes. though I bet if we plan it so we go out for the day he won't!

Had an awful night last night. dt2 up most of the night crying. bloody fucking dairy main suspect. so as dh wanted me to sort dt2, dt1 went mental. He will Co sleep with mummy and only mummy. lucky me... argh, I feel like the bad old days!

in other news my dad has guilted me into getting some duvet covers for dt2. says it's not fair dd is in a bed, his twin is in a bed but he's in a cot- might affect his self image. etc. Anyway, better not stuff up bedtime/ nights with him which are generally fine. Just need to build his cot into toddler bed now.

I'm. no further along than you hear with Plan SMBD. hope your colds better soon.

I absolutely plan my life around nap time dreaming. We can get away with missing one usually but 2 days in a row without a nap and she is up all night due to over tiredness.

Well today we have just had a very exciting development. Dd just asked for dh to put her to bed for her nap! Actually asked! Even though I am here! This is unheard of, it is tantamount to a miraculous event. She then had a book and went to sleep beautifully with me sitting in the living room waiting for screaming to commence. :o

Its so lovely I feel a bit emotional. Maybe all these evenings on the SMBD plan consisting of dd climbing out of bed and me putting her back into bed over and over and over until I lose the will to live have been worth it after all. :o

GAH!

DS has been sleeping like a star at night and napping happily (!) in his bed (!!)

So happily that he slept for 2.5hrs today I fell asleep as well, exhausted, woke up feeling far too well rested and relaxed, when the panic of realisation struck.

Tonight is going to be SHIT. SHIT I tell you!

Quick! Chase him around the garden! :o

He's running laps around the house, eating a banana and barking like a dog. Does that count?

Definitely putting bedtime back by at least an hour tonight...

OMG elph . Ann is officially a miracle worker. Right. Funds for wildly expensive sleep programme needed now :) . i hope it lasts. This is the longest bhes gone without getting worse or regressing though isn't it? I'm still sat holding dt the T's hand waiting for him to stop writhing round and go to sleep.

DT2's first night in his bed tonight. put off til now for poor sleep and not making cot into toddler bed reasons. He's got a single duvet on a toddler bed. plus a bed guard as he writhes around in his sleep too. So masses of excess duvet everywhere. I got him a whale duvet, Finding Nemo wall stickers and a Nemo soft toy to make it special as he's been in a cot 6 months longer than his twin. He was so delighted, made it all worthwhile- he said "wow, Nemo" grabbed his toy "thank you" . sob. he's just adorable. shame about the other Went to sleep fine under 10 million folds of duvet. need a thinner one ASAP! ! and crossing fingers for the night.

Hear Such a lovely story about your dd asking for daddy and.going to bed for him happily. I really hope it does make all tour effort worthwhile. Hurrah ! How are the rest of the nights after bedtime at the minute, dare I ask?

are you still around bees? Hope you're surviving.

Hello,how are you all?

I don't really know what to write as it seems like I have it easy-peasy with mine waking up a couple of times in the night without any histerics and shenanigans.I'm sorry I don't mean to brag about his sleeping.
He went to bed not long ago after spending all day outside,hope he'll sleep longer than yesterday when he started the day at 6 am.

Wsishing you long and peaceful nights,going to look at somemore rubbish on MN and off to bed.Night night xx

IM still here! My embed plan fallen by the wayside as twin one the non sleeper has been really sick and has got four teeth in a week! He slept six hours one night with daddy so thought things might be improving, but appears to be a one off!

Hello bald and bees!

Dd made up for her delightful nap time yesterday by having an awful night. Screamed like a banshee at bedtime and then woke at midnight in order to spend the next few hours wiggling and kicking us both after i gave up on settling her in her own bed. Not much sleep for anyone. It's all a bit 2 steps forward and then 2 back again at the moment.

Beg borrow and steal the money for Ann, Hear. Despite the 2.5 hour nap yesterday, DS went to bed and slept like a champ (again). I didn't even start thinking about bedtime until 8pm (usually we make a start at 7pm). At 8:15, he hopped off the sofa and hugged each of the dogs and said night night. Waited at the bottom of the stairs for one of us to take him up, then started going through the motions of getting himself undressed while I ran his bath. Bathed happily, went into his room where DH read him a few books. Then he hopped off DH's lap of his own accord and climbed into bed, where he had one last book. When DH stood up to leave, DS said, 'Daddy, light.' and DH turned off the light. Then he left the room and went downstairs with nary a backward glance while DS put himself to sleep, entirely by himself, in his own room. Last night was a particularly exemplary example, especially given the nap, but that's pretty much how bedtimes have been for the past week. We've had a total of three night wakings this week - one was because DS had a post-cold ear infection, one was because his teeth were bothering him and one was because he had a post-cold coughing-attack which lasted several minutes. He went back to sleep within seconds of me going in to calm him down, and on two of those occasions, he didn't even get out of bed, just lay there and whinged until I got there.

I've decided that Ann is a government agent, heavily subsidised to carry out cloning and genetic research. My child doesn't do any of the above things I've described, so I've come to the conclusion that he is an identical clone or mutant of my original offspring, swapped while I was at work.

Gosh elphthat does sound like some sort of magical voodoo thing.

A couple of days ago I had got to the stage of her sitting on my lap for books then I gave her cuddle and retreated to a few feet from her bed. She would lie down for a bit, then clamber out of bed so I had to put her back a number of times before finally settling down and going to sleep. So not too bad for a few weeks of pretty softly, softly gradual retreat, considering before that it was sleeping only with me sleeping next to her and her hand firmly stuck down my top.

Last night was like some mega regression. She just would not settle and when I put her back in bed she just sat in the middle of the bed screaming. Being a huge spineless softy I ended up giving her cuddles until she calmed down and then sort of sneaking her back into bed and slowly sneaking away while she feel asleep.

Tonight was better, though not quite back to sitting in the middle of the room. I ended up next to the bed and hand holding for a little bit until she settled down. No getting out of bed though! So maybe she is starting to get the message.

The tricky bit seems to be getting her from book to actually calm and ready for sleep. We tried saying goodnight to her random collection of soft toys by the bed and then I told her she had to be quiet as they wanted to sleep. This seemed to help a bit.

I haven't been even trying to make her stay in her own bed all night. She still comes into ours when she wakes in the night. I know this is probably not exactly helping and gives the poor muffin mixed messages. I just don't think I am ready to stop cosleeping completely yet and sort of need to get over that before I can really aim for a perfect sleeping child like your new ds.

Well, that was a bit of a self absorbed essay. Sorry...

Elph did Ann hypnotise your son or is there a alcohol magic sleeping potion?

Hear I used to take DS to our bed everytime he cried and then I just had to stop-he was bashing around like mad while we couldn't sleep (imagine kick or elbow in your face).Now I don't take him earlier than 5 am-if he wakes up any earlier I just cuddle him, rub his chest and tummy and put him back to his cot.

He used to be in hysterics when he was put to his cot-DH started to deal with it (sometimes he was just holding DS down when he screamed),that's how the rubbing his chest started.We just couldn't carry on any longer,9-10 pm and the little sod darling didn't want to go to sleep.We had to get tough even if it meant leaving him to cry for a few minutes (and being sick as the result).I always came back to reassure him and lay him down (he was standing in his cot wailing).

I just snapped-broken nights every night,bashing in our bed,late evening and DS still awake while the kitchen needs a basic clean up after the dinner (including food scatered everywhere by DS),sandwiches for work to be made,dishwasher to load and so on and so on.I felt like a total bitch but I just couldn't function his way anymore,it was very hard,difficult and heartbreaking sometimes.

Whatever you decide,wishing you good luck SMBD,SMBD,SMBD…

Bees 4 teeth in one go is quite impressive and it's soooo much better than when they come in dribs and drabs-DS was hell while teething,we just got over of his madness when canines eruped,now he's got molars on the way.Kitchen med upboard is stuffed with calpol and nurofen and shitloads of ice lollies in the freezer that's for my ice-cream cravings Thank FUCK molars are the last!

Hugs x

oh and Hear because we couldn't sleep due to DS's night shenanigans we were actually risking a lot-we live about 40-50 mins away from town where I work and Dh drives a lot.The last thing that I needed is DH crashing onto the tree while falling asleep behind the wheel due to lack of night time sleep.That's when we decided that Something Must Be Done…

bees hope the teething is calming down. Paracetamol and ibuprofen were party of our evening routine for ages. Dd was an awful teether.

Thanks for the words of reassurance bald. In your situation I would do the same. It is hard though.

Part of my problem is that 80% of nights are pretty good. Last night dd slept in her bed until midnight and then quietly got up and walked into our room, she then climbed into our bed and went straight to sleep for the rest of the night. No problem. If it wasn't for the fact that dh couldn't settle her at all I probably would just live with it as it is. Also I do get the rage on the 20% of nights when she wakes at 10pm and then wiggles about kicking and shoving all night.

Bedtime was rubbish again tonight. An hour of jumping about and then screaming for cuddles. She just would not lie down even though she was clearly tired. I'm crap at this really. I think I either give up or have to brace myself for sitting through a period of screaming and horridness, and hope it's worth it in the end :(

Hear an odd night is still survivable,when the shitty bedtime becomes a routine that's when it starts bothering me.We both started to be tough with DS-DH by holding him down in his cot rubbing his chest and me by refusing to engage at all and let him scream in his cot until he was sick sometimes.

Yes,I'm a heartless bitch but I need my sleep and so my DH,even this little monkey needs to sleep.

I cuddled DS for a few minutes and then I left him to his own devices (screaming).I couldn't do anything in the house as he was chucking the folded washing around,getting in the cupboards (all childproofed now),opening dishwasher/washing machine and while in the kitchen constantly under my feet and clinging onto my legs.

Hugs to you whatever you decide x

That's kind of my problem too hear. Things are so much better than they were. dt1 is a pain at Bath and bedtime- manic, ott, rough play +++. Then once asleep hen often only wakes once in the evening. wakes and gets into bed with me between 10-11 pm. sometimes then sleeps this morning. except he kicks. He is a real wriggler and likes to wedge his feet into me and keep pushing hard with them. So uncomfortable and I can't sleep through it. This often doesn't start til after 5am though, but can be from.3am onwards. I don't have to get up but I can only doze in between trying to get him off me which is never very successful. But on a food night that's still not bad but I'm just greedy for better

Might just nip onto Ann's website again...

Well after all that melodrama last night dd stayed in her own bed until 4.30am! Yes indeedy! She called out a couple of times but I just called back from bed and she resettled herself. Amazing!. So that made the decision for me and we decided to ride the SMBD mo fo out as clearly it was doing something right.

Tonight was much better then last night. Still a good amount of crying but much less fraught and once it changed from angry crying to tired sobbing I just lay her down, gave her a quick back rub, and she settled nicely, just wiggling about a bit before going to sleep with me a few feet away.

dreaming, you are right. I do feel sort of greedy. I still remember a time when 2 hours sleep in one go seemed like some sort of miraculous dream. Also there is the fear of rocking the boat and just making things worse. It's the going away that has pushed me to try. I just don't have the heart to leave dh for 3 nights on his own with a hysterical non-sleeping 2 year old. Sometimes I think I am too darn good to him :o

Had my last sleep chat with Ann yesterday and she said she was only able to have her website open for two days after Easter before she had to shut it down again because of the demand, so unfortunately you may have missed out again Dreaming. I think she's going to need to set up some kind of a waiting list arrangement by the sounds of things.

She said she's writing a book at the moment and she wants to use DS as a case study in it Let's hope he stays on the (reasonably) straight and narrow, but she says I can always get back in contact with her immediately if needs be, and I've got my eye on her Happiest Baby course if DS2 is in possession of the no-sleep, Velcro-baby genes as well.

DS was awake for no particular reason around 2:30 last night but went back to sleep in seconds after I laid him down and covered him up, then slept until 6:25. I've not got my 12-hours-a-night-forevermore sleeper, but then I honestly wasn't ever expecting that, and I don't think that's reasonable to expect of a toddler who's still sprouting four molars and is prone to catching every cold going. Night time cuddles were nice, but I sure don't miss the night-long hair-pulling and kicking for one second. Like I said in a PP, he seems to be getting his cuddle-quota filled more during sociable hours anyway, which us much nicer for all of us. It's also been fantastic with mum being ill that I can get up to see to mum in the night (yes, the mother is waking the child, now ) knowing I'm not leaving him alone on a high double bed, waking up, freaking out when he can't locate my hair, then hurling himself off. It's also amazing being able to share bedtimes with DH for pretty much the first time ever, and having them be quite pleasant events.

But don't worry, gals. I ain't signing out of this group. I'd miss you all too much!

What ?! Don't say that elph, that's utterly depressing. I though it's only have opened again yesterday as first business day after Easter, can't believe I've missed out again. If I om you my name and number can you beg her for me?! (me?! desperate?! never!!) . I think that proves I need plan Something must Be Done as I'm a bit gutted I can have him swapped for a clone like your ds elph .

though when the heck would I have time to cuddle him more in the day, or play 1:1 games with him, she panics

oh dear. I just got in such a rage with dd's bedtime antics that I stormed out of her room and told dh I couldn't do it any more and he would have to deal with her. I think I have now officially fucked this sleep training business up.

Oh dear hear . I did the exact same. except while raging off downstairs with all 3 awake and messing about I announced "I've fucking well had enough" . If i hear that repeated to me tomorrow I'll be sorry. I'm feeling very embarrassed at how i handled tonight.... oh please have a space Ann!