Misery loves company: anyone want to join me on a support thread for those desperate and demoralised by their 8/9/10 mo sleep?

[Suchanamateur]

Bloody sleep regression. It's like 4 months all over again but worse because it felt (briefly) like we were getting somewhere. Feck. Anyone else want to share tales of woe or is it (a) just me or (b) way too depressing to post about..?

Bugger... Took hours and made sod all difference).
Haven't seen HV in ages. Bet they were cross you had stumped their expert!!!

Oh dear elphaba it doesn't speak much for bf support in your area, does it?! Or indeed for the quality of HVs, mind you they all do seem to be a bit loony variable wherever you are.

I have to say food - not necessarily solids - does make a difference to DS. If I have convinced him to have a few good bits of milk and some solid food in the day it can make things better at night. But I am afraid of over feeding him and making him obese so I do try to offer finger foods or loaded spoons as much as possible rather than shovelling it in.

He settled pretty well tonight - in fact has been for the last few nights, and is back to his slow and steady three wake ups a night, have a cuddle and or food then back to sleep. This compared to every hour and not going back to sleep unless on boob or DH's chest a few weeks ago/

So perhaps his 'regression' is over and we are back to normal. But I would still like to stick around, because my RL friends have 7-7 angels so I like being with people who understand what it means to have not slept more than 4 hours in months.

Nightmoves The thread I've put onto weaning, which relates to the HV's flummoxing advice, is here. All the respondents seem to want to give me sleeping advice though, which I'm not really after. Appreciate the time taken to respond and all, but I've been around the houses and back again with sleep. This is more of a weaning thing (which is related to his sleep but...oh bugger it...y'all know what I mean...)

Well, after all that, we didn't have a bad night at all last night - wake ups at 11:30-midnight, 3am, 5am and 6:30am with no co-sleeping required. Fair bit of feeding and cuddling needed for transition back into the cot, but definitely preferable to waking up having my hair pulled! Rather than disappointing myself (again) into thinking this is The Great Turning Point I've been dreaming of for months, I'm going to assume it's one of three things:

1. The HV suggesting I starve him terrified him into sleeping more.
2. He's constipated up to his neck, so maybe it's making him a bit sluggish.
3. He gives me a reasonable night's sleep once in a blue moon. I think it's because he doesn't want me to look too haggard in my coffin.

Hope everyone else's nights were passable?

Solids made no difference to us and DD eats well. Ok so I'm glad DD is catching on with the nighttime sleeping, it makes such a difference getting good successive hours of sleep (that is when I can sleep, seem to have developed insomnia since DD's sleep has improved -tangent). But I'm still mighty frustrated with her daytime naps she is displaying tired signs when I put her down and I follow same method as we did at night, but she stays awake for the entire hour (at which point nap is supposed to end) I just don't get it, is she scared of missing something?

Keznel I hear you on the naps thing. That's exactly what happens here. No idea how you're meant to sort it.

Thanks elphaba. Have read HV advice. Am in agreement with you about milk being main source till 1 but maybe there are exceptions. Thanks for your reply.

Just read the weaning thread elpheba (but am posting here .... Um...not sure why...). I actually think that not only is she competly going against all advice I have read, including the NHS guidelines, but she is telling you to do something that would be potentially damaging.

Reducing your feeds to 2 a day is mental! Besides if you DC is that hungry then your milk is a much better source of calories then any solid food. All guidance I have read says you should offer milk before solids up to an year as solid food is a secondary source of nutrition.

My dd eats tons. 3 good meals plus at least 2 'snacks' (usually fruit and rice cake or something so not tiny). She stills feeds at least 5-6 times in 24 hours and they are good feeds. There is no way I would even consider reducing the number. I would also say that she didn't really get going till around 8 months. At 7 months we were still at the messing about stage so saying slides should be the main source of nutrition is mad, particularly as you aren't supposed to even be showing them food till 6 months.

Despite shoveling in food like she has hollow legs her sleep is still awful, so personally am hugely sceptical of anyone who claims eating solids improves sleep.

Here are some bits from the NHSwww.nhs.uk/Conditions/pregnancy-and-baby/Pages/solid-foods-weaning.aspx#close

This says that babies should be moving towards 3 meals a day from 8-9 months so definitely not using solids as main source of food.

www.nhs.uk/Conditions/pregnancy-and-baby/Pages/solid-foods-weaning.aspx#close

The HV gave me a sample food 'timetable' i.e. what you should feed babies of different ages at different times of day. It's obviously been photocopied from something official and it does say babies from 7 months should only have 2-3 milk feeds per day plus three meals.

I don't know if this is my evil breastapo twin rearing its indignant head but I can't help but feel that advice is driven by evidence (if there is any) based largely on FF babies. It's entirely suitable perhaps for FF babies who tend to fall more easily into a timetable and you can see the quantities of milk they take in in any milk feed, and therefore fiddle the quantity easily, but it just seems counterintuitive to me for previously EBF babies to go relatively quickly from on-demand feeding to twice a day at relatively set times. I'm also more than a little concerned about getting mastitis or blocked ducts with a sudden huge drop like that.

I confess I am no expert but i think you're right. I saw on the NHS site that it is meant to be about 1 pint of formula a day but nothing I could see specified number of bfs. You can't say how much they are getting per feed.

I would want to know exactly where this timetable is from and ask how this fits with the NHS site that says you wouldn't necessarily expect them to be eating 3 meals a day until they are a year old. Also if the timetable is from something official when is it from?

IMO I am sure there are cases where good eaters and sleepers might drop quite quickly to only 2-3 feeds a day at 7 months but it seems really quick to me.

Sorry, realised this is turning into a bf and weaning discussion. Back to sleeping.... On a scale of fabulous night of dreamy sleep to suicide inducing dd was somewhere between bad to rubbish. Woke about 5-6 times but was pretty quick to settle so got 2-3 hour sleeps between wakes.

Today she has only wanted to walk about holding my hand (new skill) and has considered any other activity a howl inducing waste of her time.

Good luck for the night ahead everyone! See you all on the other side :)

I agree entirely with Hear, the HV sounds misguided at best. What she says doesn't fit with current NHS online guidance, or any other weaning advice I have heard. I also agree that 2 feeds a day sounds more suited to ff babies, though not even sure it would suit them: they are meant to have 500-600ml of milk a day until a year which would mean taking up to 300ml in one go - that's an awful lot for a wee tummy to take in.

Perhaps the official thing she had photocopied was from a while back, and is more suited to babies who begin weaning pre six months?

My own feeling is that encouraging him to eat and drink more at day might help reduce night feeds if only in that it will give you confidence to keep on rocking and comforting when he wails safe in knowledge that he isn't going to fade away as he's had lots of calories in day. But given the other issues, like spoon refusal and gagging, that obviously has to be a gentle process and not just a random 'starve him of milk and shove other meals down him' thing.

DS back to his usual non settling self tonight, DH currently singing lullabies in the nursery while I make tea. He is also increasingly poorly seeming, and has what I think is a heat or allergic rash. Waiting on call from NHS direct just to check it doesn't sound more serious than that. So obviously hoping he gets better, but actually he seems to have been sleeping better while poorly cos he is so tired. As long as we unblock the nose now and again and keep him fed he has slept really well (for him: 3 wakings a night, food, back down). So hoping that he gets better but keeps up the sleep improvement!

hear your DD sounds brilliant, I love when they get a new skill and are obsessed with it. Hope the walking has worn her out.

Oh, kenzel and such I meant to say lack of, or randomness of, daytime naps is infuriating. People always say to me that I could nap when he does, but I never know if he'll be asleep for two hours or (much more likely) 20 minutes. And I don't want to be just about to fall asleep and get woken - makes you feel worse than before.

Or he won't settle at all and I end up taking him out in the pram to force him to sleep, usually on some made up errand which makes me feel a bit more purposeful and not like a crazy harridan who is a slave to her son's sleep

blossombath I know it's crazy, I actually think people round where I live will think I'm mad as our little village has lack of footpaths so there's a little green area at the back of the school with a path on it, most days I walk round & round this in circles to pass an hour! the minute I stop she wakes! We have had to plan our Christmas Day so that she will be in the car for 2 2hr periods. I can't wait til the napping thing is over and done with only a few more years to go then............

Sorry that should've been 2 1hr periods in the car, luckily DH's family live an hour away

DD won't nap in buggy or car. :(

Oh dear, yes the terrible napping. Gosh, that brings back memories of the 4 month regression when dd's napping was hideous. I remember standimg outside our apartment in the rain one morning with dd in the buggy because she wouldn't sleep anywhere else and some nice lady walking past and just saying "don't worry love, it'll get better". I almost burst into tears

Thankfully so far dd is napping rather well at the moment and for the first time ever seems to have settled into a general kind of routine during the day which is rather nice. Fingers crossed it stays that way...at least for a bit.

Last night she slept pretty well and settled really quickly after feeds but tonight it looks like we are back to the hourly wakings. Ho hum.

We have The Cold From Hell. Rivers and rivers of snot. Guess its better than last Xmas when DS' norovirus announced itself spectacularly during present unwrapping and then preceeded to move through (quite literally) every family member. On both sides. The Christmad gift that kept on giving.

Rivers of snot here too! One sneeze and it's Armageddon.

YY to arranging Christmas Day around naps. I'm suddenly wide awake realising I've told everyone lunch at 2pm...which is exactly when I'll probably be parked on my bum on the couch on nap duty I'll have to think about that one...

Well, tonight has been awful. I think I've had about an hour or so of sleep and have now given up and plonked her on the living room floor to amuse herself. Its the happiest she has been all night.

Elpheba, would she sleep in a sling at all?

Yo dudes. We have had a few totally bone nights - around 3 in the awfulness scale. DD has a stinker of a cold (DH has been singing "By the rivers of Snottylon") and her sleeping was shot even further to shit. As was her feeding. But last night she managed midnight to 5.45, woohoo!

Elphaba, I haven't had chance to read your HV advice but it sounds from the same school as my GP! I think I'm going to consult my lactation consultant (who is also a HV who does private work). Because there are nothing like as many calories in a bit of mashed carrot as there are in milk, and I can't just launch straight into the full English. Aarrgghh, confused!

I shall be eternally optimistic for you, HearMyRoar, and say maybe she's wearing herself out so she gives you a good night's sleep before Christmas yeah, right

Sadly, DS gave up sleeping in the sling quite some time ago. He now sees it as a way of getting closer to all the action. I think I'll just make lunch 12:30 and I can have presents brought to me during nap time. It's a hard life

Yo back atcha, fish! (Check me out all street) 5.45 hours sounds lovely. Hopefully the rivers of snot are drying up for you.

Thanks for the optimism epheba. I think I could do with some of that. Just about to settle on the sofa for some napping time myself so can totally sympathise. I can put her down but she then doesn't sleep as long so I tend to only do it once a day at most or she ends up over tired.

In the end after some walking around and playing she went back to sleep at 4.30 for a couple of hours which was a relief. Luckily Xmas eve working mostly involves eating cake and then sneaking off home at lunchtime so not too strenuous.

Decided to go out for dinner so hopefully the excitement will wear her out a bit.

Wishing everyone a sleepful Christmas :)