Misery loves company: anyone want to join me on a support thread for those desperate and demoralised by their 8/9/10 mo sleep?

[Suchanamateur]

Bloody sleep regression. It's like 4 months all over again but worse because it felt (briefly) like we were getting somewhere. Feck. Anyone else want to share tales of woe or is it (a) just me or (b) way too depressing to post about..?

[blossombath]

PetaO 12 to 7 is amazing hope you get another good night tonight.

[Fishandjam]

Peta that's great! Let's hope for a repeat performance.

Re cold and waking - DD really likes to be warm. (Probably why co-sleeping often works well.) She has short sleeve bodysuit, long sleeve babygro, winter weight Grobag, two cellular cot blankets (the lightweight variety) and... a hot water bottle under her feet, outside the Grobag. We tumbled to it early on; would be putting a HWB in her cot to warm it before she went in, and then again during the night when she got out for feeds. Ended up leaving it in, once it had cooled down enough. I used to worry about making her too warm, but in all that cold weather we had her little feet were freezing despite the clothing and Grobag. I think she just sleeps better with warm feet!

Heaven knows what sort of a night we'll have as it was a very disrupted day (will explain tomorrow - quite funny in retrospect - too tired to do it now!) She went to bed at 7, yelled for 15 mins, then woke at 9, fed, ditto yelling, all quiet since.

[HearMyRoar]

Well, I got one of these 2.5 tog suits and completely ignored all guidance about what she should be sleeping in. I had her in a vest, the padded suit, a sheet and 3 fleece blankets. She also slept on top of a blanket and was snuggled with me so super snug.

Good new: she only woke 3 times! And she slept a whole 4 hours between 11:30 and 3:30. I feel blooming amazing this morning, can't remember the last time I slept 4 straight hours at night.

Bad news: she did wake at 9:30 and take 2 hours to get back to sleep, but I am pretty sure it was teeth as once we could give her a second lot of drugs she settled down again.

So on the whole I am classing this as a success. Obviously cold hasn't been the only issue but clearly it wasn't helping. It seems she just likes to be really nice and warm at night. :)

Why I never thought of this earlier I can't imagine.

[PetaO]

So it seems that I spoke too soon yesterday. We had good naps during the day but after going down at 7.30pm DS woke at 10 and then every 15ish minutes until 1am. He then slept until 8am, but the wake at 1 was crazy! Proper screaming and we had to turn on the lights and convince him we weren't going to put him back to bed before he would calm down. Then we gently shushed him in his cot for about an hour!

This morning has been dreadful. He yawned 3 times having been. 2.5 hours so I put him down and he again screamed blue murder until I turned the lights on And picked him up. I've ended up feeding him to sleep as it was feed time anyway and he was so exhausted. Who knows how long he'll stay down for.

We really are both baffled and a little demoralised. Apart from the 4month regression and a blip with a heavy cold he's been an awesome sleeper (sorry) . And we've not changed anything. He still doesn't have any teeth, and he's eating really well. We just don't know what to do and we're so tired!

[ScreamIfYouStillBelieveInSanta]

I agree with all the people who've noticed temperature makes a difference. Up to 6 months I followed the sleeping guidelines re temp of baby's room at night and the layers they should be wearing, as closely as possible. Once she reached 7 months though I found she sleeps much better at 22 degrees (as do I!)

Sorry to hear about a few bad nights out there. Hang on in there ladies!

My DD is actually responding really well to the cc, with hardly any actual crying! Last night she only woke twice between bedtime at 10.30 (my fault, we had guests over) and morning milk at 7. She fell asleep with NO crying at all at bedtime, and Each time she woke in the night she cried for 30 sec (literally) and was asleep again within 2 mins. I was back in my bed within 3 minutes for both wake ups! It was heaven

For her morning nap today she was asleep within 90sec of me leaving the room! (I know these crazy-exact times because I put my timer on to measure the ten min intervals).

Fingers crossed all our LOs have a good night tonight!

[halfaglassofouzodestructo]

Right - well I think I might increase the layers DD is wearing and see if it helps her sleep better! HearMyRoar those snugglers look lovely!

Peta - yikes, every 15 minutes. That sounds dreadful. Glad he eventually settled down, and indeed slept till 8!

Scream sounds as if you're having some results. Quick question are you BF or FF? Were you feeding in the night before, or was that not an issue?

Last night was a mixture of good and bad for us. DD only woke 3 times between 6.30pm and 7.30am which is amazing - 10, 12 and 4. yes a four hour stretch there! But then ruined it all by being wide awake at 4 and not feeding back to sleep as she always always does. She let me put her down in her cot after half an hour or so, where she lay babbling for a while before starting to cry and eventually feeding back to sleep about 5.30. This long stretch of waking is a new thing for us, two nights in a row now - I hope this isn't some sort of new routine.

[ScreamIfYouStillBelieveInSanta]

Half nighttime wakefulness is just grim! I feel for you! Fingers crossed this was just a one two-off!

I ebf DD to 5 months, mixed fed for a month, and she's been ff since 6 months. As part of my various desperate efforts to sort out her sleeping I night-weaned DD about a month ago. She has no milk between 11pm and 6am now, and she's fine with it. She wakes in the night because she wants to sleep on me, not from hunger. She's also a BIG fan of solid food, she eats LOADS!

[TooImmatureMincePies]

Okay, I have a confession to make. I did cc last night. I just couldn't face another night like the previous 2, not that the ones before that were much better. I did the Supernanny version: Do normal bedtime routine, then put baby in bed and say 'night night darling, go to sleep' and walk out. Leave for 2 mins, then go back, pat her, say Shhhhhh, then leave for 4 mins. Then 6 mins, then 8...

So, DD screamed. And screamed. DH had to physically restrain me - he said we'd give it half an hour and see how we got on. I went back in after 2 mins, and then after 4. She cried and cried - it was awful. Then, after 1 more minute (so 7 mins total), she suddenly shut up. When I went in, she was fast asleep. She woke up 20 mins later and cried again, but this time it only took 3 minutes before she fell asleep again. She woke up again after an hour (so 9.30ish) but only cried for 1 minute. Then she slept until nearly 1 and when she woke up, cried intermittently for 20 mins, but not the awful screaming of earlier, just normal cries and I could tell she was getting sleepier - she kept stopping, being silent for a bit and then starting again. And then...she slept until 7.20am!

I put her down for her morning nap in the same way, and asked nursery to do it too for her afternoon nap (she's had a couple of nursery sessions this week to prepare her - I go back to work after Christmas), and she cried for no more than 5 mins each time. Then at bedtime tonight, I bf her in the living room, took her into her room and laid her down, she started to cry, but it lasted for 90 seconds and it's been silence ever since!

I felt horrible last night - it really is heartbreaking to hear her cry. Like Scream I'm not exactly advocating it, and if DD had kept up the screams for much longer I'm not sure I would have stuck to it, but she didn't. However, that's the first 6 hour stretch of sleep I've had since we hit the 4 month regression. She's 9 months now.

[ElphabaTheGreen]

So since he was still awake, DH decided he'd go through to try and cuddle DS back to sleep after his third wake-up. Been listening to the screams escalating for...ooh...almost 20 minutes now? If past history is anything to go by, it could go on for 90 minutes or more, followed by 20 minutes of sleep, if we're lucky.

Dear life, that child is obstinate...

[ElphabaTheGreen]

Oh FFS, he's completely awake and chortling...this cannot end well (for me...at 2am...).

[PetaO]

So we had a bit of a breakthrough last night. Down at 8pm quite restless and had to sit with him, crying to himself at 10pm and then again at 11.30pm but settled down quickly without us having to go in. And then I woke up to him chatting to himself at 7.45! I'm shocked!

I'd decided to take my own advice and I put an extra blanket on him. Also, he managed to work out walking (whilst holding onto my hands) in the afternoon, and I'm pretty sure he'd been trying to do that for a while. Perhaps that contributed to the wakefulness.

Or perhaps it was just a blip and we'll be back to no sleep tomorrow... Who knows!

How was everyone else's night?

[Keznel]

Well, we are coming on leaps and bounds here! CC has worked, DD going down at 7 a couple of whinge/grumbles til 10 (self settles within a few mins) then sleeping through to anywhere between 6.15-7am, and that's 2 nights in a row - miracle!! Now to tackle the daytime, have put her in her cot this morning, she's been blowing raspberries and babbling for 10mins but at least no crying yet! No sleeping yet either mind you

Too glad CC is working, it's never a decision anyone comes to lightly I'm sure of that. But you get some solace in the knowledge that your LO is getting a good nights sleep .

[ElphabaTheGreen]

DS screamed bloody. blue. murder. for 40 minutes last night with DH holding him. As DH had to work today and is going to his Christmas do tonight, and therefore wouldn't be able to do any follow-through for two nights, I intervened. Took DS to bed with me, fed him and we both got almost four hours' sleep. Awake every 1.5 to 2 hours after that mind...

Can't cope with this much longer so we may be trying CC again soon (very reluctant and worried...didn't work at all when we tried it a month ago ). The health visitor is sending their nursery nurse out to see us today who is apparently an 'expert' on sleep. I shall try and keep an open mind but if she has anything revelatory to suggest I'll be surprised. RL hand holding and a plan from someone who can give advice on night weaning and sleep training while DS has the world's longest-running most never-ending cough might be nice though...

[blossombath]

oh elphaba have and my hand...wish I could come and push your.ds round a park while you have some much needed sleep.

I noticed on the Prof Winston webchat this week he mentioned that his cds have a section on sleep, to do with sleep hormones and daylight. I, like you, despair of getting any new advice from sleep experts but hadnt heard of anyone.discussing sleep hormones so might be worth a try?

Also have you tried snuffle babe? Its like baby vicks, worked wonders for my ds cold. And a friend puts it on her dds feet and swears it stops night coughing. Anythings worth a go, right?!

[ScreamIfYouStillBelieveInSanta]

Sorry to hear about your rubbish night Elphaba. That sounds so stressful. We've all been there, and we're with you in spirit! I hope the RL hand-holding does some good though.

Hurray for great nights in the Keznel and Peta households! Plus, of course, a big well done to Too's DD, but I've already said that elsewhere. Please remind me Elphaba how old is your DS? I really think cc wouldn't have worked on my DD a month ago (she will be 8 months on Xmas Day). It's only the last few weeks where she's shown she can self-settle occasionally for other people, so I think that made it the right time to get her to use those existing skills on a regular basis. Fingers crossed if you end up trying cc again this time your LO will be ready, and you'll have a much better outcome! Of course it would be lovely if he would just start sleeping through of his own accord, say from tonight?

My DD had another good night (kind of). My parents were babysitting in the eve and apparently she went down fine (using the same method I'm using now) at 9.30. She woke 3 times between bedtime and morning milk, but on each occasion she went back to sleep within 2 mins with no crying. I still have to do 30sec of patting/lullaby before "leaving" the room each time she wakes, but she's going into her own room after Xmas and I'm hoping at that point the night waking will stop. Fingers crossed. Until then I'm more than happy with less than 2 mins of waking and not having to get her out of the cot each time she stirs.

[PetaO]

blossombath and elphaba we used snuffle babe when DS had an awful cold/cough and someone at DHs work suggested putting on his feet. I was v v sceptical! But it worked like a dream, coughing went down probably about 80% so he got a much better nights sleep. Definitely worth a try.

Congrats to those of you who had better nights, I'm trying not to get too excited in case mine don't last!

[ElphabaTheGreen]

I tried Vicks on his feet for about a week which did nothing, unfortunately. He's had this cough for almost 10 weeks and it's responded to absolutely nothing and the doctors say it's nothing to worry about. It's been the main thing holding me back from doing any sleep training because I worry that it'll just be completely counterproductive (cry, cough more, just start to settle, cough, wake up again, start crying again etc...) It's one of the things I'll talk to this nursery nurse about today.

Scream He's 7 months, so I know he's young but I'm desperate for something to change before I go back to work in six weeks.

[ElphabaTheGreen]

Well that was helpful.

Advice:

1. Feed him bigger portions of solids (he's a spoon refuser who might swallow three crumbs a day of the finger foods he's given then throw the rest on the floor. And hands up those for whom solids made no difference to sleep?)
2. Take him back to the doctor again for the cough (OK)
3. There's this technique called 'controlled crying' which you should try...(erm, yes. He feeds for at least 20 minutes every 1.5 to 2 hours...what do I do about that?)
4. Oh. We don't have anyone who's breastfed as long as you have - they've usually all given up by now. I'll have to talk to the breastfeeding specialist.

Oy vey...good job my expectations weren't too high.

[Suchanamateur]

Elphaba - that is total shit. What a waste of your time - sleep specialist my arse. In terms of cc, you may find it'll work now when it didn't amonth ago. Certainly the case for us with DS1.

Congrats to those of you who are seeing real improvements. Just in time for Xmas!!

We're a mixed bag. Naps are all over the place - not settling and/ or short. No idea what to do about those. Really don't think cc will work for DD with naps.

She's settling at bedtime although wakes half an hour later crying (which I think is overtiredness). But then th last 2 nights we've only had 2 wakes - around 2.30 and 5.30/6. I've fed both to times. She'll be 11 months in Jan and I'm quite keen to nightwean - at least pre the 5am mark. Do you think cc would work for middle of night wakings, given she can already settle at thebeginning of the night? Trying to cuddle/ pat her back to sleep just makes her furious.

But it's likely to all go to shit anyway as we're now on the road for Xmas. DD doesn't travel well...

[TooImmatureMincePies]

Elphaba, that really is shit. Am also fuming at the 'no one has bf as long as you have' comment. For what it's worth, DD was bf for aaaaaaages, every night, every time she woke up, right up until I started cc 2 nights ago. She was not hungry, she was just rooting because she thought she needed the milk to sleep.

[halfaglassofouzodestructo]

Yes, solids made no difference here either and DD is quite enthusiastic about them now. Elphaba that sleep consultant sounds useless and the comment about bf-ing is just unhelpful. I have friends still bf-ing babies older than yours and they sleep to 5ish before needing a feed. Mine doesn't of course, but it's not the bf-ing that's causing the problem!

Anyway Scream I was interested that you'd nightweaned before you tried cc. I don't think my DD needs all the feeds she has at night, but is just feeding to sleep. She could probably go a good long time overnight without feeding, but just won't sleep any other way. I suspect we will be tackling sleep and nightweaning together. But I am scared in case we just start a new set of problems - i.e. not going back to sleep at all!

Like SuchAnAmateur we are away for Christmas so shall be putting all decisions on 'what to do' on hold till afterwards. Maybe she'll magically start sleeping all by herself. Ha ha

Last night was average - 4 or 5 wakings I think. No four hour stretches of sleep but no more than 15 or 20 minutes to go back down . What gets me is that there is no rhyme nor reason to a good or bad night. I can't stop myself trying to work out why but I really should have learned that it's pointless by now!

[HearMyRoar]

If anything when we started weaning dd's sleep got worse. I think the problem is that she loves food soooo much that she already refuses to bf much in the day in favour of solid food so is genuinely in need of milk feeds in the night to make up for it.

I generally try cuddles and/or rocking for a bit before bf when dd wakes in the night which has reduced night feeds to around every 3-4 hours an they are usually pretty good feeds rather then just a bit of comfort sucking. Of course it's done sod all to stop her waking but hey ho...

Last night was another mixed one. Had a good 4 hours between 11 and 3 but around that it was pretty crap, particularly the last couple of hours when she woke every half hour. We're waiting for nher second fang to come through and it is obviously causing her a lot of pain so tonight I am going to preload a couple of syringes with paracetamol for easy quick dosing in the night so at least she will be less sore.

[ElphabaTheGreen]

I had a health visitor on the phone to me for 45 minutes this evening as the nursery nurse 'sleep expert' had reported back to her. Oh. My. God. I'm confused. I'm going to tootle over to the weaning forum and vent my confusion there after I've got DS into bed (for the first of many times).

[ElphabaTheGreen]

The comment about the BFing just made me chortle inwardly. Seven months - extended breastfeeder me

[Nightmoves]

elphaba what did the HV say if you don't mind me asking? Your DS sounds very similar to mine in sleep patterns or lack of. Have given up asking about it as they were sod all help. Only suggestions were CC and the holy grail of putting him down awake (really tried, managed it once or twice, t