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What worked for us. Hope this helps.

870 replies

nectarina · 29/01/2012 21:03

This post is going to be massive - no apologies however.

So I've posted at least 5 queries about DD's sleep and read about 1 billion threads, because DD only napped for 30mins in the day, would only BF to sleep (since a newborn I wanted to get out of the habit, but nothing else did it). She spent the first 5 months in her cot, only for us to end up co-sleeping so we could get a bit of rest. She would BF every 2 hours at least in the night, and by the end she'd wake every half hour before we went to bed. I knew I couldn't do CC/CIO, I'm not strong enough even if I thought that was the right thing to do, but I thought that I would be forced to if things carried on the way they were.

We read No Cry Sleep Solution, which is complicated and didn't work for us.

So a friend had tried a technique, that she recommended and I thought that it was too much of a leap for DD, but i kept the email, and one evening I sort of snapped and decided that IT WAS TIME. DD was 8 1/2months. I don't know from what age this technique is recommended, but I don't think I'd have wanted to do this earlier, as you still have to cope with the baby crying. I knew DD was ready because now she quite clearly has two cries - one properly sad and scared, the other a bit shouty and put on, so when doing this technique you know what's going on (but I'd like to add that I still comforted DD when she was shouty - she's still trying to say something, but I deÞ nitely wouldn't pick her up and panic!)

I'll paste her email to me, hoping she won't mind. We didn't do it in the ten days, as it was just a bit too much, but i wonder if the way we did it made things a bit complicated. So I recommend doing it as laid out.

But now DD takes 20mins to fall asleep by herself (with one of us in her room) in her cot, in her room. and I do not feed at all between 7pm and 7am. Dh goes in in the night and he gives her water in case she's thirsty but she's quite happy without. It takes him no more than about 3mins to resettle her (unless ill).

After starting this at the beginning of January she still wakes up once or twice a night but it doesn't affect me as I wear earplugs and DH goes in! ha ha ha! (I still hear her and wake up, but I don't wake up fully and find it difFicult to go back to sleep) Do I need to tell you how I feel like a different woman?

So here's the email -

^"Ok, this is a plan thing that we first tried with dc1 when we got to the point where we knew something had to change. There seems to come a point where not only do you get tired of 'helping' your baby get to sleep, but whatever you do seems to work less and less - as if they know something has to change too! It takes a bit of work for about ten days or so but mostly the first couple of days you really put your back into it and then it gets easier. I remember vaguely doing it with dc1 and have just rediscovered it with Dc2 she is a bit of a firecracker so I was expecting trouble but babies love to learn something new, especially around this age and she only woke once last night despite having a cold, which is a HUGE improvement. Dc1 found this very easy and never shed a tear. Dc2 screamed 'TRAITOR!!' at me many times during the first night (she does that a lot), so I'm not saying that there won't be some crying because you will be doing something different to before but you don't have to leave her side and can reassure her as much as you need to, physically and verbally.
The idea is that you are no longer going to help her go to sleep - in whatever way - if you rock her, feed her, jiggle her, whatever it is. You can be there and reassure her but it is no longer your job to MAKE her go to sleep. It is your job to support her whilst she does it herself.
First of all, you know that thing that everyone says about having a bedtime routine (which I imagine you already have) is utterly true. By the time they are a toddler, the sound of a running bath is enough to set the bedtime clock going. When you choose to do this thing, it is really important to stick to your bedtime routine without fail for the ten days and it needs to be between 20 and 45 minutes long. Also, this plan also applies to naps, so you need to be able to be at home for naptimes - just until Dd has the thing established - ten days usually does it. Lastly, you are aiming for Dd to be in bed by 7ish in the evening and not much later. If you're like me you're knackered by about half four, so starting bedtime at a quarter past six is no trouble. You've probably done all that so on to the plan. I'll do bedtimes first and then naps.

Day 1, 2 and 3 - Place a chair right next to the cot. Make it a comfortable chair, you may get to know it fairly well. Have a duvet, cushions, iphone, book to hand. Do your bedtime routine and put Dd in the cot awake. She may well not know what to do next and try all sorts of things. If she stands up you can gently pop her back down again but only a few times - if she insists on standing for a bit then let her - it may just be one of those things she incorporates into her own burgeoning routine, and I daresay she is capable of getting back down again by now. You can pat the bed to let her know you want her to lie down. Sooner or later she is likely to sit down for a bit and eventually plop on to her front. She has to find her own way through this so she may try eating her blanket or playing with a toy before she lies down - that's up to her. If she cries, you can pat her and speak to her. As long as you remember that your patting and comforting is not there to get her to sleep, just to help her calm down in this new and confusing situation so as soon as she starts to settle, lighten your touch with a view to taking your hand off her, and stop speaking. She may go back and forth a bit needing you to touch and speak to her a few more times, but each time lessen your touch when she has settled. Stay there until she has fallen fast asleep and creep out. This bit can take ten minutes for some babies, but most fall asleep after 45 minutes. Two hours is the longest on record! I expected Dc2 to be a two hour effort but no - 45 minutes almost exactly. As long as you know that it is going to take that long, you can get through it. When she wakes up in the night, you do exactly the same thing, each and every time. The first few times she wakes, she will probably yell for you, but as she gets the idea that she can drift back to sleep herself, she may just squeak and go back (sounds unlikely? I thought that too.) The idea is that as time goes on you can wait a tiny bit longer before you go in, to give her the opportunity to practise her new skill.

Days 4, 5 and 6 - move the chair a few feet away from the cot. Keep everything else the same except you are further away. Once you have had your bedtime cuddle and put her in the cot sit down. You can still go to her if she really needs you, and you can still speak to her but she may not need as much help by now. Again, wait until she is asleep before you leave. Repeat as often as necessary when she wakes although, again, leave it a few minutes before you go in.

Days 7, 8 and 9 - move the chair to the door or the other side of the room. Make sure she can still see you, but once you have settled her in her cot and gone to the chair try not to go to her unless she has got herself into a daft position and can't get out. By now she will start developing her own strategy to get to sleep, and you will be able to tell what stage she is at, because you've been watching it all the way through.

Day 10 - you have several choices. If you think things are going really well and baby can cope with you not being there you can leave the room and see how she gets on. You can hover by the door out of sight and watch what happens, and reassure her with your voice. If you feel apprehensive about it and think she needs longer you can try the Bustle - instead of sitting down, tinker about in her room, cleaning up or folding washing or whatever. Or you can continue in the chair. The idea of the plan is ultimately for you to be able to plonk and go, but I quite like spending that extra time with DC so I use a mixture of the bustle and the chair. For night wakings you now really have to give her the chance to go back on her own. Wait ten minutes ( I know - such a long time!) before you go in. I got up last night to Þ nd by the time I got to DC's door, she'd already curled up again! That's the main brunt of it. Just bear in mind that the first couple of nights are the worst - she might wake more frequently, but stick at it and you'll see an improvement. The other thing is that when they start sleeping longer in the night they get up properly a bit too early in the morning - but this usually improves over a few weeks as they get the hang of sleeping. I've kind of assumed that you are going to move her into her own room - there's no reason you can't start this as soon as you move her in. If DC get ill and it disrupts her sleep, go back to whichever stage in the plan you think works best. You can sleep in her room if you want to keep an eye on her, but don't bring her in with you.

Naps - Do the same for naps as you do at night times only you can't sit there for as long as it takes - give it an hour and if she hasn't gone to sleep, get her up and feed her or do something different and try again a bit later. If she resists napping like this twice in a day you can resort to taking her out in the buggy or something. just so she gets a bit of sleep in the day. You are aiming at two solid naps a day by the way. If you've started this thing at bedtime the night before, the nap thing is usually not a problem. I can't think of anything else right now! By the way this is based on a Canadian lady's idea. I chose to use it because it doesn't mean leaving a baby to cry. They learn to fall asleep without you intervening, although you might argue that your presence is a sort of intervention, but before long you will find yourself saying goodnight and shutting the door, because she'd not taking any notice of you anymore!" ^

So for us the First night it took 3 hours 10mins, which is why for nightwakings later on that night I just fed her instead of sitting with her. Within the first few nights she woke LOADS less and then DH would go to her and he would just ask her to put her head down and she would and go straight back to sleep. Needless to say that sort of thing just wouldn't happen before. So if I remember rightly it was only after 4 or 5 nights that I stopped feeding her. The other thing we've found a bit hard is waiting a few mins before going in to her when she wakes. We just give it one or two minutes more than we'd usually do instead of waiting 10.

DH would like to add that he thinks the important thing is to teach DC to put their head down and close their eyes - he says' put your head down, put your head down, now close your eyes' and repeats it a bit like a mantra gently until DD does, and then stops as soon as she does what he says. He says for our 9month old that after a week she knows what it means and does what he suggests! He says that this is useful in the night and that's all he needs to do to get her to go back to sleep.

For the first night I recommend a large glass of wine that you take in with you. For the second night, have the bottle waiting for you on the table in the lounge. Also on the first night we both did it together for a bit of moral support and took it in turns but I'm assuming that none of you is as much as a wimp as I am.

I hope this isn't too much of a mess, my friend's writing is very clear, and mine is all over the shop. I'm just a bit enthusiastic about how its gone. I hope this is of use to someone.

OP posts:
cooper82 · 16/05/2018 06:58

Fantastic @sleepfortheweek.
End result of last night 😢😢

Awake at 1:05am. Left for 10 mins but wouldn’t settle. Went in. Offered some milk.
Back down at 1:20am. Pretty restless.
Went back in. 1:35am.
Asleep for 2am.
Awake at 2:45am. Left to try and self settle. Had to go in at 3:05am.
Back down for 3:10am
Awake again at 3:35am
Back down at 3:45am. Left room at 4:10am

Magpiefeather · 16/05/2018 10:58

It sounds like you are doing so well @cooper82!

@sleepfortheweek hooray that must have felt fantastic. I think it does have a knock on effect for night wakings. Although....

I shouldn’t have counted my chickens!!! Yesterday second nap had to be in pushchair as she fought sleep in the cot for over an hour and by that point she just needed some sleep. Bedtime went ok but she woke at 10.30pm absolutely inconsolable. I did try comforting as per the method of sitting in the chair with voice and touch but she was too upset so I relented pretty quickly and picked her up. Even then she would not settle, we were up for almost two hours and i resorted to pushing her round the kitchen in her pushchair in the pitch black singing a lullaby, just to get her to sleep. She was mainly just overtired but possibly tooth pain as well - it was a pretty intense pain/fear cry not just annoyed. Transferred her to cot whn she was asleep and she slept til 7.10am!

On the one hand it feels like a giant step back but on the other I’m confident I did the right thing for her in that moment. Hopefully we can still make progress from here. This morning going down for her nap was fine (30mins to get to sleep) and she didn’t cry at all.

Keep going all, we can do this!!!

Magpiefeather · 16/05/2018 11:04

@planetMJ fingers crossed for you that it goes well! It’s worth a try I would say! You never know it might not Be that bad. I was truly preparing for the first night to be awful but it wasn’t at all. Do recommend starting after a “decent” night’s sleep (for you) if that is at all possible.... We began on a Saturday night as DH took baby duties that morning so I could have a little sleep in in preparation!

I’m so glad it was worth me posting. Let us know how you get on!

cooper82 · 16/05/2018 14:45

@magpiefeather sounds like you had a similar experience. When you think you’re making progress then the baby decides to regress.

I got DD down in 20 mins within her cot today with just shhh and singing. She probably was shattered with all the wake ups in the night however!

Fingers crossed for tonight 🤞🏻🙏🏻🤞🏻

cooper82 · 16/05/2018 15:11

@magpiefeather how long have you been doing the sleep training for?

Magpiefeather · 16/05/2018 15:50

@cooper82 today is day 4 so still early days. Yes sounds like we have had a similar experience - feels like 2 steps forward and 1 step back. Hopefully we will get there eventually. To a certain extent I wonder if DD is trying to test the limits of the new regime... she fought her nap again for so long that we had to resort to pushchair. Trying not to get het up about it.

well done with the nap! Yes fingers crossed for tonight

SleepForTheWeek · 16/05/2018 20:50

How have bedtimes been tonight?

cooper82 · 16/05/2018 21:28

@sleepfortheweek. Bed for 6:35pm as DD seemed really tired. Took till 7:05pm to settle. Had to really just talk over the cot to DD till she was properly out. Left the room at 7:30pm.

Now let’s see what the evening brings.

Magpiefeather · 17/05/2018 09:16

@sleepfortheweek our DD was so super tired from this afternoon’s nap dodging antics that she was just really fidgety but she managed to get to sleep within 35 mins. DH stepped on a creaky floorboard at 5.30am when he got out of bed to “stretch his back”. I was not impressed! It woke DD up! But to everyone’s surprise she went back to sleep til 6.20am. She has just nodded off for morning nap - 20 mins to sleep, much calmer. But we shall see what this afternoon holds!

Magpiefeather · 17/05/2018 09:18

That sounds great @cooper82... how were the night wakings?

cooper82 · 18/05/2018 07:54

@magpiefeather 2 nights ago she slept right through again!! Last night she was up twice but I was no longer than 15 mins each time settling her. Last night was also the first time I was able to put her down in bed and there was no tears. She just lay there and went to sleep. In bed for 6:40 and I swear, she was asleep by 7pm!!!

cooper82 · 18/05/2018 07:55

@magpiefeather how’s things with your little one?

cooper82 · 18/05/2018 17:55

@magpiefeather @sleepfortheweek good luck tonight 🤞🏻🤞🏻

SleepForTheWeek · 18/05/2018 18:01

That's great @cooper82 !!

Last night DD2 was up her usual 2 times 🙄.

Going down well at night though

Magpiefeather · 18/05/2018 19:34

We had a bad / good night last night.... DD woke at 10.30 just as I was getting to sleep. Took 2 hours to get back to sleep BUT did it without picking her up (and without her getting too upset). So actually for the sleep training I think it was good reinforcement!!

Today: morning nap awful - had to give up and do a pushchair nap
Afternoon nap really good
Tonight: has gone ok! Asleep in 30 mins. She seems more fussy though and cries a bit more (in frustration that she can’t get to sleep rather than wanting to be picked up).

@cooper82 that sounds great - 15 mins to settle and going down with no crying - that’s awesome!

@sleepfortheweek sounds like you’re doing well too - going down well at night is fab; I’m sure the night wakings will get better soon

cooper82 · 18/05/2018 19:42

@magpiefeather that’s so weird as that’s when DD woke at 10:45pm as well!! I left her to try and settle but it didn’t work. Went in at 11:00pm and she was back down at 11:15pm.

She then woke again at 12am and I thought this was gonna be it, up and down all night. But then once I got her down, she slept till 6:20am.

I tried a nap at 8:30am but she was still too awake. Took her out in the pram at 9:30 to nap. She took another nap in the pram earlier today too as we were out enjoying the weather.

cooper82 · 19/05/2018 19:52

@magpiefeather @sleepfortheweek so last night DD slept from 7pm to 5:10am!! I tried for an hour to get her back down and although she was tired, she wasn’t for settling. I didn’t mind though. That was amazing. After trying for an hour it was 6am and I just took her into the living room.

I tried for a nap at 8am and she took maybe 15 mins to get over but I managed it.

Tonight was a little harder. We were at a friends till 6pm and the drive home got DD really sleepy. We also had her in her PJ’s so we could bundle her into her bedroom right away. But it took about 40 mins to settle her. I don’t know if from being sleepy in the car to being woke up a little as she was taken out maybe didn’t help 🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️

Still doesn’t get any harder to put DD to bed as she still cries a little and I swear she’s like “what have I done” 💔💔

cooper82 · 23/05/2018 07:15

@magpiefeather @sleepfortheweek How you getting on now?

Magpiefeather · 24/05/2018 15:43

Hi @cooper82 and @sleepfortheweek

Things here are going well. She doesn’t get upset, rarely cries now but does still sometimes take ages to get to sleep (usually if she is overtired). I think I still intervene too much althoUgh I’m trying not to. Biggest reason is trying to stop her banging her head (which she has done many times), as she is sometimes so sleepy but trying to stay standing, she just topples. Naps are slightly less consistent but getting better. We’ve had a few “asleep in 10 mins” sleeps which feel amazing. Generally sleeping through and getting up at a reasonable time. I’m pleased with the progress but still not quite there yet!

Going to move the chair further away again tonight.

How are things for you two?

cooper82 · 24/05/2018 19:18

@magpiefeather so we have definitely seen an improvement. If DD is up, it doesn’t much to put her back down. We had a few all slept all nights too.

We still get a lot of tears some days. I thought after 2 weeks we’d be passed that but hey ho.

In terms of afternoon naps, do you have a set time? We don’t, the morning nap we do, but the afternoon one we don’t. We tend to just try and be flex about that one otherwise we’d never be able to venture very far without having to come back and let DD sleep in her cot!

Magpiefeather · 24/05/2018 19:44

@cooper82 it sounds like you’re doing great. Hopefully the improvements will keep coming. I bet your DD will gradually get less and less upset at bed time.

Re naps I have set (ish) times... but I do flex it if she seems tired earlier, or if we are out / going out, or if she woke up particularly early for example. Afternoon nap will tend to be about 1.30 on a “normal” day, but to be honest this is the most likely one to go pear shaped and end with a pushchair nap. I’ve decided not to get too hung up on that at the moment, someone said on one of these boards “they grow out of naps but night time sleep is forever”.

I haven’t been super strict about ALWAYS napping in her cot either... this past week or so I’ve had the odd “planned” pushchair nap if we are out. It hasn’t seemed to make a difference really. She naps better and for longer in the cot though. Snoozeshade has been brilliant for getting her to nap in the pushchair too.

Just about to creep out of her room now. Moved the chair all the way as far away from the cot as possible, she didn’t seem to mind. Asleep in half an hour so not bad at all. I’ve grown to like my time looking at mumsnet while I wait for her to get to sleep (while hiding phone under a blanket!!)

Hope your bedtimes have gone well @cooper82 and @sleepfortheweek

PeachesandPie · 24/05/2018 19:47

I stumbled across this thread last night on feed number 6. Gave it a go starting with naps and had 4 amazing naps, all in the cot with very little protesting! All naps took less than 20 minutes to settle which isn't really longer than it would take to rock her to sleep and there was just angry crying not upset crying. Just put her to bed and it's taken an hour to the minute for her to fall asleep, much more crying, had to pick her up a few times and she's fallen asleep pretty upset but she's asleep! First time she hasn't fallen asleep on the boob in 7 months. Even if it doesn't last any longer than normal, it's progress.

Thank you for this post OP, wherever you are these days!

SleepForTheWeek · 24/05/2018 19:55

Hi @Magpiefeather and @cooper82 ! Sounds like you are both doing great! All nighters too!

Bedtimes are a joy now, she hasn't made so much as a peep when put in the cot for nearly 2 weeks now. She's usually asleep within 10mins and I leave as soon as I put her down.

Nighttime's are a hit or miss but tbh I haven't done much work on them. We have had a couple all nighters though and she's generally only up once if at all (although she thinks 5.30 is morning 🙄)

I terms of naps - I'm Quite happy for her to nap on the pram. She's usually asleep within 5 mins and it means I can go get ready upstairs etc. If I did cot naps I'd have to implement a shortened night time routine and it would take much longer lol. It doesn't seem to affect her nighttime's anyway.

cooper82 · 27/05/2018 18:15

2 and 2 days in and there is definitely more consistency. We still get a LOT of tears at bedtime. Her lying down and just staying put is a rarity. I’m hoping as we keep doing it, that starts to happen.

We think DD might be teething today too so that may disrupt the routine for the next while too 😢😢

SleepForTheWeek · 28/05/2018 17:20

Teeth are always getting in the way!! Wish they were born with a full set haha

DD1 hasn't been well the last few days and hasn't wanted me away from her side so DH has had to do DD2 bedtime and thankfully it's gone swimmingly!!

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