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What worked for us. Hope this helps.

870 replies

nectarina · 29/01/2012 21:03

This post is going to be massive - no apologies however.

So I've posted at least 5 queries about DD's sleep and read about 1 billion threads, because DD only napped for 30mins in the day, would only BF to sleep (since a newborn I wanted to get out of the habit, but nothing else did it). She spent the first 5 months in her cot, only for us to end up co-sleeping so we could get a bit of rest. She would BF every 2 hours at least in the night, and by the end she'd wake every half hour before we went to bed. I knew I couldn't do CC/CIO, I'm not strong enough even if I thought that was the right thing to do, but I thought that I would be forced to if things carried on the way they were.

We read No Cry Sleep Solution, which is complicated and didn't work for us.

So a friend had tried a technique, that she recommended and I thought that it was too much of a leap for DD, but i kept the email, and one evening I sort of snapped and decided that IT WAS TIME. DD was 8 1/2months. I don't know from what age this technique is recommended, but I don't think I'd have wanted to do this earlier, as you still have to cope with the baby crying. I knew DD was ready because now she quite clearly has two cries - one properly sad and scared, the other a bit shouty and put on, so when doing this technique you know what's going on (but I'd like to add that I still comforted DD when she was shouty - she's still trying to say something, but I deÞ nitely wouldn't pick her up and panic!)

I'll paste her email to me, hoping she won't mind. We didn't do it in the ten days, as it was just a bit too much, but i wonder if the way we did it made things a bit complicated. So I recommend doing it as laid out.

But now DD takes 20mins to fall asleep by herself (with one of us in her room) in her cot, in her room. and I do not feed at all between 7pm and 7am. Dh goes in in the night and he gives her water in case she's thirsty but she's quite happy without. It takes him no more than about 3mins to resettle her (unless ill).

After starting this at the beginning of January she still wakes up once or twice a night but it doesn't affect me as I wear earplugs and DH goes in! ha ha ha! (I still hear her and wake up, but I don't wake up fully and find it difFicult to go back to sleep) Do I need to tell you how I feel like a different woman?

So here's the email -

^"Ok, this is a plan thing that we first tried with dc1 when we got to the point where we knew something had to change. There seems to come a point where not only do you get tired of 'helping' your baby get to sleep, but whatever you do seems to work less and less - as if they know something has to change too! It takes a bit of work for about ten days or so but mostly the first couple of days you really put your back into it and then it gets easier. I remember vaguely doing it with dc1 and have just rediscovered it with Dc2 she is a bit of a firecracker so I was expecting trouble but babies love to learn something new, especially around this age and she only woke once last night despite having a cold, which is a HUGE improvement. Dc1 found this very easy and never shed a tear. Dc2 screamed 'TRAITOR!!' at me many times during the first night (she does that a lot), so I'm not saying that there won't be some crying because you will be doing something different to before but you don't have to leave her side and can reassure her as much as you need to, physically and verbally.
The idea is that you are no longer going to help her go to sleep - in whatever way - if you rock her, feed her, jiggle her, whatever it is. You can be there and reassure her but it is no longer your job to MAKE her go to sleep. It is your job to support her whilst she does it herself.
First of all, you know that thing that everyone says about having a bedtime routine (which I imagine you already have) is utterly true. By the time they are a toddler, the sound of a running bath is enough to set the bedtime clock going. When you choose to do this thing, it is really important to stick to your bedtime routine without fail for the ten days and it needs to be between 20 and 45 minutes long. Also, this plan also applies to naps, so you need to be able to be at home for naptimes - just until Dd has the thing established - ten days usually does it. Lastly, you are aiming for Dd to be in bed by 7ish in the evening and not much later. If you're like me you're knackered by about half four, so starting bedtime at a quarter past six is no trouble. You've probably done all that so on to the plan. I'll do bedtimes first and then naps.

Day 1, 2 and 3 - Place a chair right next to the cot. Make it a comfortable chair, you may get to know it fairly well. Have a duvet, cushions, iphone, book to hand. Do your bedtime routine and put Dd in the cot awake. She may well not know what to do next and try all sorts of things. If she stands up you can gently pop her back down again but only a few times - if she insists on standing for a bit then let her - it may just be one of those things she incorporates into her own burgeoning routine, and I daresay she is capable of getting back down again by now. You can pat the bed to let her know you want her to lie down. Sooner or later she is likely to sit down for a bit and eventually plop on to her front. She has to find her own way through this so she may try eating her blanket or playing with a toy before she lies down - that's up to her. If she cries, you can pat her and speak to her. As long as you remember that your patting and comforting is not there to get her to sleep, just to help her calm down in this new and confusing situation so as soon as she starts to settle, lighten your touch with a view to taking your hand off her, and stop speaking. She may go back and forth a bit needing you to touch and speak to her a few more times, but each time lessen your touch when she has settled. Stay there until she has fallen fast asleep and creep out. This bit can take ten minutes for some babies, but most fall asleep after 45 minutes. Two hours is the longest on record! I expected Dc2 to be a two hour effort but no - 45 minutes almost exactly. As long as you know that it is going to take that long, you can get through it. When she wakes up in the night, you do exactly the same thing, each and every time. The first few times she wakes, she will probably yell for you, but as she gets the idea that she can drift back to sleep herself, she may just squeak and go back (sounds unlikely? I thought that too.) The idea is that as time goes on you can wait a tiny bit longer before you go in, to give her the opportunity to practise her new skill.

Days 4, 5 and 6 - move the chair a few feet away from the cot. Keep everything else the same except you are further away. Once you have had your bedtime cuddle and put her in the cot sit down. You can still go to her if she really needs you, and you can still speak to her but she may not need as much help by now. Again, wait until she is asleep before you leave. Repeat as often as necessary when she wakes although, again, leave it a few minutes before you go in.

Days 7, 8 and 9 - move the chair to the door or the other side of the room. Make sure she can still see you, but once you have settled her in her cot and gone to the chair try not to go to her unless she has got herself into a daft position and can't get out. By now she will start developing her own strategy to get to sleep, and you will be able to tell what stage she is at, because you've been watching it all the way through.

Day 10 - you have several choices. If you think things are going really well and baby can cope with you not being there you can leave the room and see how she gets on. You can hover by the door out of sight and watch what happens, and reassure her with your voice. If you feel apprehensive about it and think she needs longer you can try the Bustle - instead of sitting down, tinker about in her room, cleaning up or folding washing or whatever. Or you can continue in the chair. The idea of the plan is ultimately for you to be able to plonk and go, but I quite like spending that extra time with DC so I use a mixture of the bustle and the chair. For night wakings you now really have to give her the chance to go back on her own. Wait ten minutes ( I know - such a long time!) before you go in. I got up last night to Þ nd by the time I got to DC's door, she'd already curled up again! That's the main brunt of it. Just bear in mind that the first couple of nights are the worst - she might wake more frequently, but stick at it and you'll see an improvement. The other thing is that when they start sleeping longer in the night they get up properly a bit too early in the morning - but this usually improves over a few weeks as they get the hang of sleeping. I've kind of assumed that you are going to move her into her own room - there's no reason you can't start this as soon as you move her in. If DC get ill and it disrupts her sleep, go back to whichever stage in the plan you think works best. You can sleep in her room if you want to keep an eye on her, but don't bring her in with you.

Naps - Do the same for naps as you do at night times only you can't sit there for as long as it takes - give it an hour and if she hasn't gone to sleep, get her up and feed her or do something different and try again a bit later. If she resists napping like this twice in a day you can resort to taking her out in the buggy or something. just so she gets a bit of sleep in the day. You are aiming at two solid naps a day by the way. If you've started this thing at bedtime the night before, the nap thing is usually not a problem. I can't think of anything else right now! By the way this is based on a Canadian lady's idea. I chose to use it because it doesn't mean leaving a baby to cry. They learn to fall asleep without you intervening, although you might argue that your presence is a sort of intervention, but before long you will find yourself saying goodnight and shutting the door, because she'd not taking any notice of you anymore!" ^

So for us the First night it took 3 hours 10mins, which is why for nightwakings later on that night I just fed her instead of sitting with her. Within the first few nights she woke LOADS less and then DH would go to her and he would just ask her to put her head down and she would and go straight back to sleep. Needless to say that sort of thing just wouldn't happen before. So if I remember rightly it was only after 4 or 5 nights that I stopped feeding her. The other thing we've found a bit hard is waiting a few mins before going in to her when she wakes. We just give it one or two minutes more than we'd usually do instead of waiting 10.

DH would like to add that he thinks the important thing is to teach DC to put their head down and close their eyes - he says' put your head down, put your head down, now close your eyes' and repeats it a bit like a mantra gently until DD does, and then stops as soon as she does what he says. He says for our 9month old that after a week she knows what it means and does what he suggests! He says that this is useful in the night and that's all he needs to do to get her to go back to sleep.

For the first night I recommend a large glass of wine that you take in with you. For the second night, have the bottle waiting for you on the table in the lounge. Also on the first night we both did it together for a bit of moral support and took it in turns but I'm assuming that none of you is as much as a wimp as I am.

I hope this isn't too much of a mess, my friend's writing is very clear, and mine is all over the shop. I'm just a bit enthusiastic about how its gone. I hope this is of use to someone.

OP posts:
FATEdestiny · 01/03/2017 19:03

I'm not discrediting your methods here, I am a huge GW fan and often sing it's praises for baby sleep. It's just so much easier with a dummy.

Having fully devoted to GW with my youngest - now a very secure sleeping 2 year old - what also makes it easier, is keeping the cot in your room until baby is secure in there and sleeping through. Ideally a sidecar cot.

I don't know if those of you on here already have the cot in your room or not, but just thought I'd mention it.

The rush to get baby sleeping independantly makes the process longer, I think. But then I'm a fan of far more gradual withdrawal than this op. We started at about 8 weeks and by 12 months she could be put standing up in the cot with dummy, and I leave with no fuss. So I took things very slowly and gradually.

Millipede170 · 02/03/2017 05:01

Ok so this has made things much much worse. DS is now waking hourly - second night in a row I've not had a wink of sleep. He took to not being picked up out of his cot and comfort fed just fine, was happy with being rolled on his side and patted. But now it's every hour. At a bit of a loss really.

scottishbride · 02/03/2017 14:11

O Milli, I'm so sorry, that sounds exhausting! I've just had to read back a bit to remind myself where you started and I still think it is best not to feed to sleep.
Do you think there is anything else going on? Developmentally or teeth, because you did have your amazing 12 to 5 night when you slept in his room.
I'm sorry I can't really offer any suggestions, having a non sleeper myself but I totally sympathise with your exhaustion today, hope ds has a cot nap for you 😘😘

Millipede170 · 02/03/2017 19:15

Thank you so much scottishbride 😘 I think I have done what I feared, which is to replace one intervention with another, so I'm not teaching DS to be more independent. I need to work out how to reassure him without making him reliant on me for something else ... answers on a postcard! Meanwhile he's got a bit of diarrhoea and his first nappy rash, poor thing (teething related I reckon) so I'm not going to do anything radical until that's cleared up.

How are you getting on? x

scottishbride · 02/03/2017 22:12

Aaaargh! It's like 2 steps forward and one back, isn't it?! I guess the teething and nappy rash could explain the wake ups and why he's struggling to settle, sounds reasonable to wait for these to pass then reassess.

I'm staying with ds at my parents tonight so he's in strange surroundings! Lots of screaming in the bath but I put him down awake at half six cos he seemed tired and still asleep now so a reasonable start to the night! This is the first time I've not coslept with him at my parents so they're quite surprised 😳

Fingers crossed for a better night all round!

Millipede170 · 03/03/2017 21:08

How did you get on at your parents'? Hope he gave you a good night - they can surprise you sometimes!

We cut our first tooth today! Which explains the awful nights and horrible nappy rash I reckon. Last night was a bit better again, even got a 4 hour stretch 😮 from 1-5am. The real progress tho is that I'm not having to do all that much to calm him and then he's going back to sleep without my help which I'm delighted about. It's still fragile for sure, but there is progress!

scottishbride · 03/03/2017 22:10

Yay! Definite progress, well done!

How odd, teething here too, but this will be number 3 just breaking through! So after a 5 hour sleep to start the night, then an easy feed and put down, 2 hours later he was awake for 2 hours! I gave brufen and calpol poor toot.
Last night at my parents tonight. I went to a funeral today so my dad had ds for an hour then he came to the pub and so had no sleep till half 3 so that made bedtime difficult cos he was under tired and he's woken once already!

I just want to get through tonight then back into a more normal routine with dh tomorrow night. It's great to hear how things have turned round for you, despite the ups and significant downs, you're inspiring me and giving hope!

Millipede170 · 04/03/2017 21:31

How did last night work out for you?

We had an ok night, a couple of wake ups but DS self settled a further couple of times too. The nappy rash is now awful (lots of nappy free time tomorrow) so I have him brufen before his naps and he pushed out 2 lovely long naps - that's not happened in months! Maybe he was stoned 🙊 I'm not expecting a good night tonight, he has been up once already in pain - teeth, bum, maybe both :( Will let this subside I reckon before I try and make any further changes.

Hope you have a good one. Nice to have some company while we navigate this journey!! 😉

scottishbride · 05/03/2017 20:17

Hello my old/new friend! Wink

How is the nappy rash? I feel a bit of a fraud on this thread now - we had an awful night on Friday night, ds up every hour and very difficult to settle - even in my bed which I was hoping would guarantee sleep. I handed him to my dad at 7am and went back to bed for an hour.

But then he slept for 4 hours all the way back home - I went to pull into nearly every services after 2 hours but didn't want to wake him!

Anyway, Iast night was a bit better, but I'm feeling like a fraud because I've started feeding him to sleep again in the night - except once last night, and dh is still putting him down awake so not all the way backwards.

Just read back on here how things have improved, so need to top up with brufen and calpol when needed then try the cot settling again!

Well done with the naps, hope that it did lead to more sleep!

Fingers crossed for tonight - DH at work tomorrow so I'm on the night shift....although he had a migraine last night so me anyway!

Millipede170 · 06/03/2017 14:00

I'm feeling the same! Should we start a new thread? For people trying to stop feeding to sleep? Neither of us has managed to keep up with the OP's method have we...

scottishbride · 06/03/2017 21:55

Oooo, I've never started a new thread, but I really appreciate your support and enjoy catching up. Maybe a thread for people trying to break bad sleep habits, I can see that I will likely substitute feeding for some other comfort I can provide!
I thought your comment about self soothing was soooo true! Just because ds can go to sleep on his own initially does not mean he'll put himself back to sleep!
I think we're still teething here, proper screaming and trying to eat his fingers and sleeves, never normally does this! So more brufen tonight. I want to go back to my 3 wake ups and working out how to stop feeding at the last one - which I agree is not quite what the OP had in mind!

Millipede170 · 07/03/2017 16:40

Done it - the title went a bit screwy but you get the idea!

SweetRoseSweet · 10/03/2017 16:15

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user1474565301 · 15/04/2017 06:32

Can I ask if anyone has done this method with a 14 month old or similar please? I'm trying at the moment and my daughter keeps standard and throwing her comforter over the side. She won't settle without it, but throws it, I'm guessing to get attention or have control.

user1474565301 · 15/04/2017 06:43

That should have said 'keeps standing'

user1492254707 · 15/04/2017 12:24

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NameChange30 · 23/07/2017 06:24

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sosleepdeprived · 29/11/2017 08:09

I am new to this site so apologies if my question has already been answered somewhere else! (I had a look but couldn't find it)

We've started using the gradual retreat method two nights ago with our 11 month old boy. He's been having sleep issues since month one due to reflux and multiple allergies (napping for only 20mins at a time and waking up every hour or so at night). Although we're still trying to get reflux and allergies under control I'm so exhausted that I've decided to try and sleep train him again but with a more gentle approach (I've tried CC a couple of months ago but didn't work and I don't want to go through it again).

I know that his bad sleeping is due to being overtired (at least partially). However there is nothing in the world that I can do to make him sleep longer! He won't take a dummy, won't sleep in a pram/car and even if I let him sleep while nursing he'll still wake up after 20mins and won't be able to go back to sleep!

I know what I need to do at night but I'm a bit confused with naps. The original thread says that you should let the baby go to sleep by themselves twice for an hour and if they can't then help them so that they get two decent naps a day. Well, yesterday we failed! I gave him an hour break and even though he was exhausted he didn't fall asleep. So after the second attempt i resorted to breastfeeding and when he was drowsy I put him in his cot and patted his back untill he fell asleep.

He slept for 40mins. Knowing that he is tired and really trying to avoid him getting OT (he then can keep waking up every 30mins at night) I used the same old method for the last nap of the day - which lasted only 18mins. Needless to say he was cranky the whole evening.

Am I doing the nap thing right? Is there anything else I could do to make sure he doesn't get so OT before bedtime?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated as I'm at my wits end and seriously need more sleep (and so does the little boy!).

SazCat · 29/11/2017 16:37

Hi I have just started this 2 nights ago!

Not attempted for naps yet so don't have any help for you, just wanted to let you know there's another sleep deprived mum here also following this Grin

I have had limited success so far - DD has managed to fall asleep herself both nights (1 hour then 45 mins) but has still then woken up every 30-60 mins all night thereafter.

Hoping to see some improvement soon! Confused

sosleepdeprived · 30/11/2017 08:29

Joys of motherhood!!

your progress seems very much like ours. It took us 1.4h first time round and only 40minutes the second night but he kept waking up every 30-90minutes...! So I know how you feel!! Last night though was surprising, he didn't cry at all! He fell asleep after 30minutes. I kept my hand on his back all the time and he was quite happy with it and woke up only 4 times at night. I wonder what today is going to bring but even my husband commented last night that the fact that our little boy didn't cry at all was quote worrying (as we're so used to him crying at bedtime) Grin

How old is your DD? Is there a reason why you've decided to tackle bedtime first? Is she napping well or do you just want to focus on one thing at a time?

Good luck with your DD!

SazCat · 30/11/2017 11:25

Our DD is 8 months next week. She naps twice a day, if we hold her they can be over 2 hours! But if we put her down then more like 20 mins. So I admit I do hold her a lot if the tine, or go out at nap time as she sleeps well in the car and pushchair.

I think we thought if we could get bedtime sorted then she wouldn't be overtired in the day and might nap in her cot? I don't know if it's the right way to do it tbh. I am reluctant to do both as I can see her getting little sleep and then over tired that way.

Well last night she took 1.5 hours to fall asleep, but I did have to BF her part way through as she would t take much at the start of bedtime for sober reason.

After that she woke after every 30-40 mins of sleep, until at 11.30 when I left her to cry for longer than usual. She managed to settle herself after 5 mins and then slept til 4.30am! Shock

It did say at the start of this thread to leave then for 10 minutes but I'd never managed longer than 2-3.

Just hope it wasn't a one off!

sosleepdeprived · 30/11/2017 12:00

This makes sense. If our DS would sleep for that long even when held I would tackle bedtime separately too but in our case he is overtired anyway so I'm hoping that by learning how to fall asleep by himself he'll be able to nap for longer too. Having said that I'm more gentle with naps and I do make sure he is more drowsy than at night time as I don't want him to go for the whole day on one 20minute nap as bedtime would be a disaster!

I think if babies do know how to fall asleep at bedtime they should be more likely to do the same at naps so hopefully once our little ones learn how to do it at night naps would be easier!

1.5h Ouch! At least she then slept for 5h! It does make it worth it - at least at this stage ;)

Oh I never manage to leave our DS to cry for long. He always wakes up not only crying but screaming to the point of coughing so leaving him to be like this for 10minutes seems like a torture plus I could not listen to it for that long especially at night time when all you want to do is sleep! Confused

teainbed · 03/01/2018 02:48

Bumping, placemarking. This method/thread worked for my DD2 and now DS is approaching 9 months and is being a monkey so I'm going to read it again and start tonight.

Jellybaby75 · 23/03/2018 21:01

Can anyone describe this method in more detail for naps and not night wakings if it worked for you?

SleepForTheWeek · 18/04/2018 10:08

@teainbed how did you get on?

I joined his thread in 2015 when DD1 was 9 months old, I'm not saying we got her sleep no through (she's 3.5 now and STILL wakes during the night 🙈) but bedtimes becomes MUCH More manageable and DH could help too.

DD2 is now 10 months and we are having similar problems so I'm thinking of starting with her, the thought fills me with dread though. They are such different Bavaria, DD1 was a screamer, whereas DD2 is much more content so when she does get upset it's unbearable!

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