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What worked for us. Hope this helps.

870 replies

nectarina · 29/01/2012 21:03

This post is going to be massive - no apologies however.

So I've posted at least 5 queries about DD's sleep and read about 1 billion threads, because DD only napped for 30mins in the day, would only BF to sleep (since a newborn I wanted to get out of the habit, but nothing else did it). She spent the first 5 months in her cot, only for us to end up co-sleeping so we could get a bit of rest. She would BF every 2 hours at least in the night, and by the end she'd wake every half hour before we went to bed. I knew I couldn't do CC/CIO, I'm not strong enough even if I thought that was the right thing to do, but I thought that I would be forced to if things carried on the way they were.

We read No Cry Sleep Solution, which is complicated and didn't work for us.

So a friend had tried a technique, that she recommended and I thought that it was too much of a leap for DD, but i kept the email, and one evening I sort of snapped and decided that IT WAS TIME. DD was 8 1/2months. I don't know from what age this technique is recommended, but I don't think I'd have wanted to do this earlier, as you still have to cope with the baby crying. I knew DD was ready because now she quite clearly has two cries - one properly sad and scared, the other a bit shouty and put on, so when doing this technique you know what's going on (but I'd like to add that I still comforted DD when she was shouty - she's still trying to say something, but I deÞ nitely wouldn't pick her up and panic!)

I'll paste her email to me, hoping she won't mind. We didn't do it in the ten days, as it was just a bit too much, but i wonder if the way we did it made things a bit complicated. So I recommend doing it as laid out.

But now DD takes 20mins to fall asleep by herself (with one of us in her room) in her cot, in her room. and I do not feed at all between 7pm and 7am. Dh goes in in the night and he gives her water in case she's thirsty but she's quite happy without. It takes him no more than about 3mins to resettle her (unless ill).

After starting this at the beginning of January she still wakes up once or twice a night but it doesn't affect me as I wear earplugs and DH goes in! ha ha ha! (I still hear her and wake up, but I don't wake up fully and find it difFicult to go back to sleep) Do I need to tell you how I feel like a different woman?

So here's the email -

^"Ok, this is a plan thing that we first tried with dc1 when we got to the point where we knew something had to change. There seems to come a point where not only do you get tired of 'helping' your baby get to sleep, but whatever you do seems to work less and less - as if they know something has to change too! It takes a bit of work for about ten days or so but mostly the first couple of days you really put your back into it and then it gets easier. I remember vaguely doing it with dc1 and have just rediscovered it with Dc2 she is a bit of a firecracker so I was expecting trouble but babies love to learn something new, especially around this age and she only woke once last night despite having a cold, which is a HUGE improvement. Dc1 found this very easy and never shed a tear. Dc2 screamed 'TRAITOR!!' at me many times during the first night (she does that a lot), so I'm not saying that there won't be some crying because you will be doing something different to before but you don't have to leave her side and can reassure her as much as you need to, physically and verbally.
The idea is that you are no longer going to help her go to sleep - in whatever way - if you rock her, feed her, jiggle her, whatever it is. You can be there and reassure her but it is no longer your job to MAKE her go to sleep. It is your job to support her whilst she does it herself.
First of all, you know that thing that everyone says about having a bedtime routine (which I imagine you already have) is utterly true. By the time they are a toddler, the sound of a running bath is enough to set the bedtime clock going. When you choose to do this thing, it is really important to stick to your bedtime routine without fail for the ten days and it needs to be between 20 and 45 minutes long. Also, this plan also applies to naps, so you need to be able to be at home for naptimes - just until Dd has the thing established - ten days usually does it. Lastly, you are aiming for Dd to be in bed by 7ish in the evening and not much later. If you're like me you're knackered by about half four, so starting bedtime at a quarter past six is no trouble. You've probably done all that so on to the plan. I'll do bedtimes first and then naps.

Day 1, 2 and 3 - Place a chair right next to the cot. Make it a comfortable chair, you may get to know it fairly well. Have a duvet, cushions, iphone, book to hand. Do your bedtime routine and put Dd in the cot awake. She may well not know what to do next and try all sorts of things. If she stands up you can gently pop her back down again but only a few times - if she insists on standing for a bit then let her - it may just be one of those things she incorporates into her own burgeoning routine, and I daresay she is capable of getting back down again by now. You can pat the bed to let her know you want her to lie down. Sooner or later she is likely to sit down for a bit and eventually plop on to her front. She has to find her own way through this so she may try eating her blanket or playing with a toy before she lies down - that's up to her. If she cries, you can pat her and speak to her. As long as you remember that your patting and comforting is not there to get her to sleep, just to help her calm down in this new and confusing situation so as soon as she starts to settle, lighten your touch with a view to taking your hand off her, and stop speaking. She may go back and forth a bit needing you to touch and speak to her a few more times, but each time lessen your touch when she has settled. Stay there until she has fallen fast asleep and creep out. This bit can take ten minutes for some babies, but most fall asleep after 45 minutes. Two hours is the longest on record! I expected Dc2 to be a two hour effort but no - 45 minutes almost exactly. As long as you know that it is going to take that long, you can get through it. When she wakes up in the night, you do exactly the same thing, each and every time. The first few times she wakes, she will probably yell for you, but as she gets the idea that she can drift back to sleep herself, she may just squeak and go back (sounds unlikely? I thought that too.) The idea is that as time goes on you can wait a tiny bit longer before you go in, to give her the opportunity to practise her new skill.

Days 4, 5 and 6 - move the chair a few feet away from the cot. Keep everything else the same except you are further away. Once you have had your bedtime cuddle and put her in the cot sit down. You can still go to her if she really needs you, and you can still speak to her but she may not need as much help by now. Again, wait until she is asleep before you leave. Repeat as often as necessary when she wakes although, again, leave it a few minutes before you go in.

Days 7, 8 and 9 - move the chair to the door or the other side of the room. Make sure she can still see you, but once you have settled her in her cot and gone to the chair try not to go to her unless she has got herself into a daft position and can't get out. By now she will start developing her own strategy to get to sleep, and you will be able to tell what stage she is at, because you've been watching it all the way through.

Day 10 - you have several choices. If you think things are going really well and baby can cope with you not being there you can leave the room and see how she gets on. You can hover by the door out of sight and watch what happens, and reassure her with your voice. If you feel apprehensive about it and think she needs longer you can try the Bustle - instead of sitting down, tinker about in her room, cleaning up or folding washing or whatever. Or you can continue in the chair. The idea of the plan is ultimately for you to be able to plonk and go, but I quite like spending that extra time with DC so I use a mixture of the bustle and the chair. For night wakings you now really have to give her the chance to go back on her own. Wait ten minutes ( I know - such a long time!) before you go in. I got up last night to Þ nd by the time I got to DC's door, she'd already curled up again! That's the main brunt of it. Just bear in mind that the first couple of nights are the worst - she might wake more frequently, but stick at it and you'll see an improvement. The other thing is that when they start sleeping longer in the night they get up properly a bit too early in the morning - but this usually improves over a few weeks as they get the hang of sleeping. I've kind of assumed that you are going to move her into her own room - there's no reason you can't start this as soon as you move her in. If DC get ill and it disrupts her sleep, go back to whichever stage in the plan you think works best. You can sleep in her room if you want to keep an eye on her, but don't bring her in with you.

Naps - Do the same for naps as you do at night times only you can't sit there for as long as it takes - give it an hour and if she hasn't gone to sleep, get her up and feed her or do something different and try again a bit later. If she resists napping like this twice in a day you can resort to taking her out in the buggy or something. just so she gets a bit of sleep in the day. You are aiming at two solid naps a day by the way. If you've started this thing at bedtime the night before, the nap thing is usually not a problem. I can't think of anything else right now! By the way this is based on a Canadian lady's idea. I chose to use it because it doesn't mean leaving a baby to cry. They learn to fall asleep without you intervening, although you might argue that your presence is a sort of intervention, but before long you will find yourself saying goodnight and shutting the door, because she'd not taking any notice of you anymore!" ^

So for us the First night it took 3 hours 10mins, which is why for nightwakings later on that night I just fed her instead of sitting with her. Within the first few nights she woke LOADS less and then DH would go to her and he would just ask her to put her head down and she would and go straight back to sleep. Needless to say that sort of thing just wouldn't happen before. So if I remember rightly it was only after 4 or 5 nights that I stopped feeding her. The other thing we've found a bit hard is waiting a few mins before going in to her when she wakes. We just give it one or two minutes more than we'd usually do instead of waiting 10.

DH would like to add that he thinks the important thing is to teach DC to put their head down and close their eyes - he says' put your head down, put your head down, now close your eyes' and repeats it a bit like a mantra gently until DD does, and then stops as soon as she does what he says. He says for our 9month old that after a week she knows what it means and does what he suggests! He says that this is useful in the night and that's all he needs to do to get her to go back to sleep.

For the first night I recommend a large glass of wine that you take in with you. For the second night, have the bottle waiting for you on the table in the lounge. Also on the first night we both did it together for a bit of moral support and took it in turns but I'm assuming that none of you is as much as a wimp as I am.

I hope this isn't too much of a mess, my friend's writing is very clear, and mine is all over the shop. I'm just a bit enthusiastic about how its gone. I hope this is of use to someone.

OP posts:
honeyharris · 12/05/2016 12:29

Anyone doing this method with an toddler? I have a 2 year old who won't go to sleep unless you stay in the room with him and rub his back for between 20 mins - over an hour. He wakes a couple of times at night as well and it's the same story.

MYA2016 · 27/11/2016 15:03

Just bumping this for anyone that may not be aware of it.
I've still not tried it myself but am now at the point where I think I may have to as 10mo DS never can fall asleep alone

Millipede170 · 25/02/2017 10:55

Is anyone else currently trying this method?

My DS is nearly 10mo and has never had a decent night's sleep in his life. He sleeps and naps in his cot, settles just fine at bedtime but then wakes throughout the night about 5 times on average. I have fallen into the habit of feeding him back to sleep, because it's quick and quiet and after 10 months of pure sleep deprivation (no nannies or grannies, and a DH who works shifts and doesn't get involved in the nighttime routine consistently) I just want to get back to bed.

But DS now believes he needs me to fall back to sleep in the night every time he wakes, so I can't keep hoping that this issue is just going to resolve itself by magic. Plus I am back to work in 2 months, moving house before then, and feel I have to crack this before all that occurs. (I could wait til after all the upheaval but tbh I think that's just delaying things).

Like pretty much everyone on this thread, I still want to be responsive to my baby and don't mind if he's not in the 'sleeping through in 3 nights' category. I started last night...

1st wake up 22.30. Turned him into his side and stroked his hair. Went back to sleep - but the early waking is the only time during the night this will ever work

2nd wake - 01.30. Didn't pick him up. Sat with him, stroked and reassured quietly for about an hour while the tears ramped up and down. At that point he got really distressed so I picked him up, gave him a feed and a cuddle and put him back down awake. Amazingly, no more tears but about 40 mins of shuffling about and then went back to sleep.

3rd wake - 05.50. No hope of resettling at this time so took him into bed with me and let him doze on the boob til wake up time (7am).

The goal is to stop picking him up and feeding him but to sit with him not interfering while he establishes his own little self settling routine. I think last night was an alright start (although we are both ballbagged today - standard 😴).

If anyone else is giving this a go, hop onto the thread for a bit of mutual support.

scottishbride · 26/02/2017 12:01

Hi Milli,
Really, really similar situation to you, will write more later, ds is crawling like a mad thimg at present. Sounds like a great start for you, we had a similar night to that on Friday night, lots more wake ups last night unfortunately and I tend to feed after midnight- but probably don't need to!

Millipede170 · 26/02/2017 14:49

Hi scottish (and anyone else reading)

So last night he woke at the same times - 2230 and 0130. First time I turned him on his side and patted him briefly again, then for wakeup #2 I (controversially) put him on his front and stroked his back til he got comfortable then left him to it. He fell back asleep til 0615 which is his natural wake up time I think.

Unbelievable night by our standards, I've never had an entire night that I've not had to lift him out of his cot to feed during the night. Usually he goes banzai if I don't pick him up 🤔 But this may not last - he liked being on his side a few weeks ago when I tried it and 2 nights later decided he hated it again and we regressed. But if it can help us get out of the 1-3 hourly comfort feeding rut, I'll embrace it.

He's always been a back sleeper tho, and although he can roll just fine, he hasn't worked out how to do it in his sleep sack in his cot. So I slept on the daybed in his room fixating on his breathing to make sure he was ok.

scottishbride · 26/02/2017 15:20

Wow, that does sound like an amazing night! Hope you managed to get some sleep!
And how.were your boobs on the morning without feeding? The first time ds slept till 1am I thought I might explode 😃
Last night he went down at 7 and apparently woke twice before 120 and dh did pick up put down at those times but thought he needed feeding at 120, and he did take both sides then slept till 5. At 5 I fed him back to sleep but probably should have tried settling him without cos he only went till 630 and woke tired - I think his normal wake up time should be about half 7 cos when he wakes then he just chats to himself in his cot for a bit.
Good luck tonight 😴😴

Millipede170 · 26/02/2017 16:15

Ha ha funnily enough my boobs were fine - little monkey hasn't really been taking any milk in the night for ages, just comfort nursing. I guess that's another way you know it's ok to night wean!!

The 4 or 5am wakeups are so tricky - almost impossible to resettle without the boob if your DS is anything like mine, just too awake. Those are the ones I'm going to tackle last 🐔

Hope you have a good night!

Millipede170 · 27/02/2017 09:31

Night 3 shocker. Had to help him settle to sleep at 18.30, then he was up every hour after that til 02.30 (just kept turning him into his side and stroking his head, then going back to bed when he was settled). Finally went and slept in his room at that point, and he slept til 5 when DH got up for work and woke him. So I fed him then and put him back down awake (but admittedly only just) and he shuffled around and dozed until 06.45.

Because he is settling ok with me turning him in his side, I don't think I'm doing Nectarina's suggested method faithfully. But I am trying to make him do most of the work, and am not picking him up and comfort nursing.

Worried I'm just replacing that with something else tho Hmm

Millipede170 · 27/02/2017 10:11

Oh, and naps have now gone to pot as well, and I can't seem to get the timing right for more than 1 sleep cycle. So he most definitely went down OT last night which may go some way to explaining all the wakings....

I've heard some people's babies just sleep. Can you imagine.

Hedgeh0g · 27/02/2017 10:19

Day/night 3 usually is a shocker in my experience. We're on day 6 of sleep training and still getting some erratic-ness (I know that's not a word but can't think of a better one) but we mostly saw a breakthrough after day 3.

Millipede170 · 27/02/2017 10:48

Thanks hedgeh0g that's encouraging. They do say it takes 3 days to make or break a habit so maybe that goes some way to explaining it. Good luck with your LO. 🍀

scottishbride · 27/02/2017 10:52

Clearly something in the air last night as not so good here either, he went down at seven, awake, slept till 10, dh settled him in the cot, woke at 11. I fed him, he slept till 2 then up at 4, I did more pick up put down then he woke at 5, I fed him and he went through till half seven, he's been really grumpy this morning though!
Currently asleep in his car seat as I so wait in the car park of soft play for my friends last meet up before going back to work! I feel a bit antisocial but ds needs this sleep!

Well done for not lifting lo out of the cot. Hope you get good naps today

Millipede170 · 27/02/2017 20:01

Thanks scottish. I wouldn't have woken him either, I'll leave that to people who can be casual about their LOs getting 'enough' sleep!

Not great naps here so early bed and he went down fine. Fingers crossed. Have a good night!

Millipede170 · 28/02/2017 09:39

Mixed bag here on night 4. Woke at 20.15, settled the second I put my hand on his head. Held his hand and he went back to sleep. Woke an hour later and DH settled him in the same way. Woke at 23.30, turned him onto his tummy and he went back off. Up again at 03.45, still can't work out how to flip over so was burrowing down at the foot end of his cot banging his head on the bars. Was really upset so I gave him a feed and put him back down (pretty much asleep, unfortunately). Self settled at 5, up at 6.

So to be honest, no real improvement in the night wakings and we are getting more in the evenings now. But he is much easier to settle atm and we seem to have kicked the reliance on the boob, so that's definite progress. I think we have some separation anxiety going on and teething in the background too.

Have a good day all Brew

scottishbride · 28/02/2017 14:43

It's so changeable isn't it! Those quick settles sound good but I guess annoying if he would normally go longer in the evening.

Definitely teething here so kind of fell off the wagon- ds wanted to feed off me all day for his gums so I was predicting a bad night!! But with some nurofen he slept 7-12, then I fed him, he woke at 3.20, it was over 3 hours so I fed him again, then upat 5.15, I tried to settle for 20 minutes then fed but he still wouldn't settle, eventually looked as if he might be asleep at 6.20 but then screaming at 6.30 so I gave him more nurofen and put my hand on his tummy and he slept till half 8!

So, that was a poor show at not feeding but I did enjoy my much needed lie in after being up for an hour in the night!

Who knows what would have happened if this top tooth wasn't coming!!

Pissedoffinsomniac · 28/02/2017 17:40

Hi all, has anyone tried this with a baby who normally co-sleeps and often feeds to sleep? DD is only 4 months so a bit young for any kind of sleep training. However she will only nap after falling asleep at the breast, or being taken out for a walk in the pram or a particular sling (fussy I know!). Happy to continue co-sleeping for the time being but I do need to initiate something soon ready for when I return to work later in the year, and the lack of naps is a problem. DD gets overtired very easily and then trying to get her to nap is a nightmare x

Millipede170 · 28/02/2017 20:47

scottishbride as I understand it, there's no problem with feeding (assuming it's from hunger, not pure comfort like mine) as long as baby then goes back into the cot awake and learns to resettle himself. That's the key I think, from what OP and others are saying.

I've not cracked that bit yet. I've swapped picking up and nursing for turning him on his side and stroking his head, which is progress of sorts but he's still dependent on me to nod off again (ergo, no fewer wakings). But ... early days 😉

Millipede170 · 28/02/2017 20:55

pissedoff I haven't I'm afraid, we don't co-sleep. But I introduced a dummy with my DS at 4 months which broke the feeding to sleep pattern and he started falling asleep independently. 2 months down the line he was waking every 45 mins thru the night when it fell out so it had to go, but it had its benefits.

I am marginally worried about DS's naps when I go back to work in 6 weeks too. But I've heard that the most unexpected things can happen with the change of environment, and they'll do things at nursery/with the childminder that they'd never entertain in a million years at home. Fingers crossed!

scottishbride · 01/03/2017 12:51

How was last night?
Still teething here, ds went down awake at 7 and wriggled himself to sleep. Then woke screaming at 11 and I gave him some calpol and a feed, slept till 2. Tried settling in the cot but ended up feeding as easy option and he went till 5.15, quick feed then up at 7.15.

When the teething finishes if it's still a 3 wakes a night pattern I will pick a feed to try and drop to 2.

Pissedoff- my ds coslept from birth I guess really, although we had a snuzpod, it didn't seem to be close enough to me for him! From 6 and a half months we tried putting him in the cot after bedtime routine and he slowly got the hang of it, but I would bring him into bed with me at about 2. From 9 months ish he started waking hourly and I was dying. We were just about to try sleep training then he slept six hours! I do think that they do things when they are ready but if you have a bedtime routine try ending it in a cot and see what happens. Ds likes his own space now.

Milli I have heard the same thing about nurseries and have personal experience via my sister. Her ds would only nap in the pram but from starting nursery he did 2 hours after lunch and still does now, aged 2!

Pissedoffinsomniac · 01/03/2017 13:58

Thanks scottishbride my DD is the same, a co-sleeper cot just isn't close enough! Will give your advice a go when hubby back from working away, not doing it all on my own. Am so soft I can't bear DD crying so will need to some back up to remain consistent

Pissedoffinsomniac · 01/03/2017 14:00

Thanks Millipede am also hoping a change in routine by going to the childminder encourages more of a willingness to nap. Did your DS take a dummy straight away? Have tried 3 different types with DD and she's just not interested.

Millipede170 · 01/03/2017 14:13

Not a great night. Only 2 short naps in the day (I offered a third in the car he wasn't having it) so I put him to bed knowing he'd likely be overtired. Bed at 18.30, up at 21.45, 23.15, 03.00 til 04.00 (urgh), Self settled at 05.30 then woke at 7. Husband came home from work at 2 and I couldn't get back to sleep from 05.30. So my night was fairly horrific and I had a good howl this morning (it helps, it really does).

If I can draw out any positives though, DS rolled over from front to back by himself (a first) and spent a long time trying to settle himself between 3 & 4am while I just sat. Eventually tho he got frustrated, much crying, pooped his nappy which needed changing and took a feed 🙄 But I am hoping that this means he will gradually learn to get himself comfortable and work out his self settling routine. I am trying to interfere as little as possible, per the original plan! Oh, and not going to him until he definitely needs attention, i.e. past the moaning/fussing stage.

Definitely getting more wakeups now than before tho 😭

Millipede170 · 01/03/2017 16:10

Re: dummy, for us it was the cherry type that seemed to appeal most. I had to work at it tho - substituted boob-to-sleep for rocking while gently holding the dummy in his mouth, but very quickly went from that to putting him in his cot awake with the dummy and just sitting in the room while he nodded off. Double edged sword tho like I say; when it got to the point he was waking every 45 mins wanting it putting back in, the dummy had to go. He was still too young to find it and pop it back on himself.

FATEdestiny · 01/03/2017 16:56

He was still too young to find it and pop it back on himself

Yes, at 6 months old. By about 8 months he'd have been able to do it himself though. And what is he now, 10 months? If he settled with a dummy, as long as he could find it in the night, you'd already have a consistant self settler.

Dummy settling also help with naps
And extending nap lengths.
And independant sleeping at night.
And self settling.
And getting in a deep sleep, so reducing light sleep wakes.

Dummies Are Amazing.

Millipede170 · 01/03/2017 18:45

I know they can be incredibly useful (I had one until I was about 3 yrs I think, I can remember the negotiation about giving it up!) - we hit our speed bump with DS's dummy at 6 months (given at 4 months to help with his silent reflux, which you can add to your 'dummies are amazing' list) and as he was nowhere near dexterous enough to put things in his mouth at that stage, we decided not to wait but to get rid. I tried again the other week just in case he'd get back into his groove with the dummy, but no dice sadly.

So yes, I totally see the benefits but when faced with months of replacing it every 45 minutes we chose to make a clean break. I definitely wouldn't dissuade others from using one.

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