Let's all meet here for a sleep deprivation support group

[ImNotAnsweringIt]

I though it might be helpful to have a general thread with survival tips for dealing with the exhaustion and misery of the long or short term effects of lack of sleep. I bet we can all find someone worse off than ourselves, and that's always a help, hmm?

My little tips for making things more bearable:

Make sure you are warm enough when you have to get up in the night. Have dressing gown and slippers by your bed if neccesary. This also helps you get back to sleep quickly, should you be fortunate enough to have the opportunity!

Have lovely breakfast things in. I always have expensive cereal in the cupboards Just For Me.

Anyone else? Hang in there everyone, I am having a very down day today which is what inspired me to start this.

Spoke too soon. DP has decided (now that he's back at work instead of being at his parents'), that he no longer wants to go in and do the soothing word bit as he thinks it's reinforcing DS to wake up. He wants to do full-blown CIO, I want to do CC. Currently trying a nap - DS would NOT fall asleep when I lay down with him, every time nipple came out of his mouth he rooted around for it as though he feared for his life. Eventually put him in his crib where he is yelling indignantly and keeps standing up, very pleased with himself but also very tired and pissed at me because I am not giving him the boob.
I know he is not hungry, he is tired and needs to nap but we're back to the same merry games again. I am not sure how to keep on doing this as whenever I go in to soothe him he just keeps screaming at me and will lie down for about 5 seconds before getting up like a bloody weeble and screaming at me again.

Perhaps doing CIO for naps is a good idea, as when I do try CC his whole nap time is spent with me going in every 5, 10, 15, 20 minutes trying to soothe him to no avail, other than me turning into a pissed off Mum. I agree with you ImNot re. being blessed; I can't imagine life without my DS, but I am afraid I am not a calm/good enough person not to get annoyed with the situation and want to scream at him to shut up and go to sleep. (Which I have to admit, in my worst moments I have done). Then I play the guilt trip on myself and try to get him to sleep again.

By the end of the day I am going to make a decision whether to do CIO or CC for night-time and nap time. I can't take this much longer, am completely drained of energy from all the feeding/sucking, my breasts feel like shriveled balloons and I am starting to hate having him attached to me virtually constantly like a limpet. This has gone on for just over a month and a half now, we've tried various things to help him sleep which did work but now are not. I just don't know what to do anymore.

Broom - I know exactly what you mean. Just remember that this phase will pass, and that as long as baby is fed, clean, and you love him/her and play with him/her, that you are not bad and this is not your fault. Sometimes babies, like adults, cannot or do not want to sleep. IMO as parents we should help our babies learn how to sleep, and there are various ways to try that work in varying degrees for different people.
When I'm feeling really crap and bad about it, I remind myself that when DS is 5 he will not be like this... that hopefully in a few more weeks he will not be like this. This too shall pass. Much love and positive thoughts your way.

Sounds like your having a rough time too titihood. This too shall pass is a great phrase it won't be like this forever. Keep us updated with how cc/CIO goes, hopefully you'll find some success with it.

I haven't even got dressed today, I showered and got changed into some clean pjs

Gah...achey back has descended into full blown aching all over, including my eyeballs so obviously a virus. Have had some paracetamol and don't have a temp, so hopefully will be a shortlived thing..had the flu jab in october so not flu. Hope DD doesn't play me up tonight. Going to get both kids in bed and go to sleep myself.

Oh god what was I thinking, today has been a complete disaster. Didn't realise how stressful potty training was and tried to leave DD to sleep by herself for a nap and just broke down completely after a few minutes of wailing. Too tired to cope with all this

broom none of this is because you are doing something 'wrong'! Please believe that. I know it's hard and I just got off the phone from another friend with a younger baby that just started sleeping through by itself this week and burst into tears cos I felt like such a failure at having yet another non sleeper. I honestly think they are born either sleepers or not (but trying to remember that is the hard bit!).

I did try the no cry sleep solution with DS and it didn't work for me cos it requires quite a lot of thinking planning and doing and I was way beyond being able to cope with that by that by that point. It's a nice read though and made me feel better so that was good!

titihood so sorry things are still bad. Have you read the sleep book that CIO originally came from? It's quite interesting as even the author doesn't recommend leaving them for the full hour for naps without going in if the crying is full on screaming, only leave if it's wind down crying. It's a bit wishy washy though cos it doesn't practically tell you what to do If that does happen . When you do CC, how long are you settling him for? The thing I didn't realise about CC (and meant I totally messed it up for weeks with DS) until I read Ferber is that he doesn't ask you to soothe them to quietness, just go in and give them a quick pat to reassure them (ha) that you are still around. I found with DS that once I stopped soothing him completely and literally popped in for a quick soothe (often left with no change in crying!) it worked really fast.

Can you tell that between the two of them I've read almost every sleep book going!!!

pips poor you, get well soon!

imnot and ems so true, wise words.

ams don't even get me started on the toddler and the bed nightmare!!

Wishing everyone a good night and please keep any little success stories coming (and at the mo an extra half hour sleep would be a success story here..) because you guys are like a ray of hope and sunshine and helps me feel that I can get through this (eventually!!) x x

MrsD - with CC at night we have been settling him until he stops crying, sometimes until he falls asleep. It seemed to be working well, but the last two nights he woke up every 1-3 hours again, on cue, which has led to DP thinking he is getting into a bad habit with the CC as we are doing it.

I've only ever left him to truly scream his head off about four times. Once when he was about 4.5 months old and would not go down for a nap (left him to yell for 30 minutes, was awful), once one night at 7.5 months old while at my Mum's house in the UK (sleep awfulness extreme, thought CIO might work, he cried for just over an hour with no let-up, eventually fed him to sleep in bed with me), and twice here back home for naps - never for more than 45 mins. I hate it, and find it very hard to be consistent whenever I tentatively try it, which is why I think CC would be the way to go for me. Most of the time he is not screaming, (it just feels like it), more making lots of annoyed crying noises because we are not there and are not soothing him or feeding him to sleep the way he wants.

Thanks for the info re. the reassure - have been reading some stuff on an Australian website (is actually really good, can post the link - does Mumsnet allow that?) that says to soothe either until they are quiet - hahaha - or for 1 minute. Hearing about your success with the quick soothe method is very encouraging. I am all for trying that! In fact, I am all for trying just about anything!!

Eventually got him to nap today after he moaned/yelled/criedfor about 2 hours with intermittent soothing and me shouting like a mad nasty mother (to no avail) - in the end I gave him Calpol as seemed his teeth were bugging him, 30 mins later lay down with him in sleep fort and fed him to sleep. Felt like a failure, but he slept for nearly an hour so maybe I shouldn't care.

Have you thought about waiting on the potty training until DD is sleeping a bit better? Thinking of you, good luck with it all!

No success stories here I'm afraid. Been trying to get DD to sleep since 7. Put her in the Moses basket when she was very sleepy but awake and she kicked off ended up overtired and screaming and has now gone full cycle and is very awake and wanting to play. I'm writing today off and will just rock/feed to sleep.

And DD still has all of her daytime naps in the sling. And she wakes up every time I sneeze. Sigh.

Just popping in to say that The Baby Sleep Site (sorry can't link off phone) had some great advice and ideas.

That website I was talking about:
raisingchildren.net.au/articles/persistent_sleep_problems.html
and
raisingchildren.net.au/articles/controlled_comforting.html

This is what I am trying tonight and for the next week - hopefully I will see improvement. As for naps, have decided to still lie down with him and feed to sleep for a few days as it seems to work (other than this morning - grrr).

Feel bad as DS is crying in crib having done 1st soothe of the night (have only just put him to bed). Hopefully I can hack this, DP has had to go back to work for the night (!) so am promising myself not to get angry, not to give in, and to make sure I do something for me during long (read over 5 minute) crying sessions. Unfortunately DS is at the stage where he can stand up holding on to crib (and I thought a few weeks ago that this sleep regression was due to him learning how so sit up alone - what's next, first words at 9 months?)

Hoping you all get good sleep tonight!
Hang in there, it must will get better.
If not, there is always

A very early morning to u all
Thanks for support and advice, I did speak to bf counsellor and advice was good but putting into practice is another thing. She said would I allow my 9 yr old to wake in night saying she was hungry and let her eat? Well of course not but she is 9. She thinks my 5 mo old has related sleeping with bf, which I agree. So suggested not feeding her right before bed but to rock, stroke etc and then the same in night......it worked Monday night she went for 6 hours and then 4 hours. Tonight well last night she fell asleep no prob but was awake at 10.30, 2am 2.30 3am 3.30 and now and yes I've given In and am feeding her. The feeling of not coping is too great I want to also be put in hospital ams because then I'd sleep. Her tummy still gives her grief cos she wakes up I pick her up and she throws up!!

Seriously want to enjoy my baby I go back to work in Feb and want to have happy times but I just can't cope. Dh is on lates this week so no help, no family around and I won't ask friends...I just know I wldnt rest I'd worry the whole time.

I want to teach her to settle herself and to not wake out of habit but I'm shattered.
Just needed a rant.
Hope there's some out there who has managed to sleep well and maybe have cracked it and baby is sleeping well too.
Lots of love to all

MrsD seriously, leave the potty training! I found it so stressful, I had no idea. It isn't a priority and I think (to a certain extent) leaving it makes it quicker/easier when you do.

Well, I have some news

Only fed ds twice last night after tiring but ultimately successful training session! Dh sAid he would deal with ds any time before 11 (great big sarcastic to you DH). So, he resettled him at 10.30. He woke at 12.40 when I fed him, then he woke at 2..40 when I just cuddled him in his cot (sort of put my hands over his body as if I am holding him). Loud 'shhing'! It took about 1.5 hours in total, including several times when I thought he was asleep, went back to bed then he moaned again . I could tell he was tired and knew he couldn't be hungry after just 2 hours.

So the outcome is he is only now having a feed! And he isn't that hungry! A mini success story for you all.

titihood hope it got better? You are doing a great job, I think it gets harder as they get older and have more in their artilliary!

broom you have my sympathies. Please remember you are doing the best job for your daughter as you are her mother. No one could look after her as well as you. Why not take a week off trying to change things and just do what is easiest for now. Get some sleep, get a firm plan then start again when it feels less hard?

Hope everyone is ok this morning, thank you for your support yesterday when I felt so low. At least I have now got 1 reasonable night under my belt, hopefully it will (please, please) happen again. Xx

MrsD give up on the potty training for now..it's hard work even when you're not knackered and even if they get it fast!

Had a reasonable night here again. I did the same as the night before: put her down after a feed at 8.30 so she was asleep by 9pm. Then I went to bed in the bed in her room at 9pm too and shut the door. I've always left the door ajar before, so maybe it was a cold draught waking her? No idea. She woke at 11.40 and I fed her then she slept til 3.10, fed again and she slept til 6ish. So much better than hourly! She was really sleepy at 3 so maybe maybe she'll drop that in time too? so, I got 2 hrs, then 3 then 2! Result! I don't know whether her tummy's suddenly calmed down or it was the door being slightly open or what..I don't care.

Well DD fell asleep sometime after 10 last night after she'd been awake for nearly 5 hours. She woke up a lot last night. Tried feeding her at 2ish, she'd only take 2 oz. Brought her into bed with us at 6 and thankfully she slept til 9. Because she feed a bit in the night she has refused to have anything this morning. She's so strange, she's just never hungry. She's now in the sling having a nap because she was yawning her head off.

Fell out with DP this morning, I'm not actually sure what it was about. But we weren't speaking when he left for work.

Glad you had a slightly better night Imnot.

It's good to have somewhere to rant everyone in rl either thinks its my fault or they don't understand. Apart from my mum, I was a really difficult sleeper until I was about 5 so my mum understands but when I talk to her she sort of fills me with dread that things are going to be like this for a long time.

I'm with spannerpants. DD taken to waking at 4 or 5 and wanting to. Very sociable. This is after teasing us by sleeping through a few times. Got a lot of respect for the super organised people on here. When I'm sleep deprived all routine goes out the window and I seem to get nothing done. :(

Not read through the entire thread yet but eager to pick up as many tips as possible!

Just marking my place as sleep deprived about covers it at the moment.

Isn't it strange how before DCs you don't realise what a precious commodity sleep is.

iowra makes me realise how tough I am too;
10 years ago I might have bragged about going to bed at 2 or 3am ocasionally, then being in work at 9 next day. Nowadays I never get that much sleep and still function and look after 2 children!

yy I worried a lot pre DCs (unnecessarily really with DS as he was doing 7-7 by about 5 months) about how I'd cope on little or no sleep, and, although I hate hate hate it, I manage actually and manage to look after the 2 of them on bugger all sleep and even manage to work (from home as a translator) too sometimes.
too many manages in one sentence there...

Hello ladies
Things still much better here although regressed a bit as baby is teething. So he woke three times last night BUT I only fed him twice and all three times he went straight back to sleep in his cot without crying. So much better.

Then he woke at five ...

So we certainly haven't cracked it, that's for sure!

Saw a friend yesterday who has a baby who is nine months. She is a dream sleeper, sleeps 12 - 14 hours a night, sleeps through, has two long naps in the day in her cot, always goes down awake. I know -
However what is interesting to me is that my friend did all the 'wrong' things we're beating ourselves up over when her baby was younger fed her to sleep, coslept, put her down asleep etc. she didn't have to do any kind of sleep training to get her this way either. I think as MrsDobalina said, they are either good sleepers naturally or they aren't. We should stop feeling bad like this is something we are doing wrong. It isn't. It's just luck of the draw and we need to try and be philosophical... And we all know what helps with that

Argh! I just can't seem to crack this putting her down awake thing. I've tried it tonight, she just shouted at me and got very annoyed and was wide awake again. Then I picked her up and held her, I decided I'd put her back down as soon as she was calm enough to but she feel asleep the second she calmed down, so she went into her Moses basket asleep again. Still better than last nights holding her for nearly 3 hours.

I think Ams is right. A lot does depend on the baby, my mum is always saying I was the worlds worst sleeper but my sister could of happily slept on a washing line for 16 hours a day. It's just hard remembering that when your exhausted and having a baby screaming at you.

Well, fed DD but she did a poo mid feed, just as she was getting sleepy..so woke up all over again. tried rocking to sleep and she'd conk out then the minute she touched the cot, spring awake. tried feeding again, she just writhed around. tried rocking again, tried a dummy. In the end (and I knew she was knackered) I put her in the cot and went downstairs to get a glass of water. She moaned for about 3 minutes and went to sleep !!!!!!!!!!! That was an hour ago !!!!

Pipoca wow! That's the stuff of legend. Am enjoying all your successes big and small. And after the biggest row with DH last night, I stormed off to bed with DD in tow and we got a whole 9pm-2am stretch of sleep!!! Sadly I can't sleep at all tonight even though DD is quiet, so I'm lying here waiting for the boot to drop. But on the plus side, at least for now I don't have anyone tugging on my nipples .

RUAHFUHI!

Okay, this is the third time I am trying to post this message, and each time it gets shorter and shorter.

Wanted to send out congratulations to all of you whose methods are working, and words of encouragement, support and sympathy to everyone.

Our 2nd night of CC and DS has fallen asleep faster than last night (where it took about 2.5 hours from when I put him down to him falling asleep, with us going in every 5, 10, 15 mins etc.) Last night he did sleep for 5 hours straight before waking when I fed him and he fell back to sleep with no fuss until nearly 6 am. Fingers crossed tonight is as good. It's funny, I find it far harder to do CC when DS has had a good day. Really had to steel myself for it tonight.

I also had a big row with DP this morning - maybe it was just the day for it? Was livid when he left for work but realised he only said what he did because he loves me and worries about me.

It's really hard without support birchykel. Is there a friend you could ask to stay the night or even just the evening while your DH is working lates? At least then you wouldn't be alone.

Also wanted to say thank you to everyone for your support and listening ears, it really means a lot. Hoping you all had better nights and sending lots of postivity and hugs your way!

broom as you say, better than last night. I think a lot of it is to do with managing your expectations; better is better, even if you're not where you want to be yet (or even near!)

mrsD yes the nipple tugging is hideous when all you want to do is bloody sleep! Hope you got some rest before your next interruption.

titihood what on god's earth is Ruahfuhi?! Sounds good anyway so very pleased for you . Thanks for your kind words.

Having improved night for second time so refusing to feed so much seems to be working (someone make me take that back, what have I done. Probably jinxed it forever). He slept 8 till 1, instead of feeding at 10 then 12. I fed at 1 then he woke at 3.30 and I have settled him in his cot with much less fuss. Still getting the odd tired groan from his room so waiting up to avoid the torture that is being disturbed just ad you drift off again! Feel better already though!

Hope everyone is getting on ok tonight xx

Imnot... Glad things are getting better. I'm going to try to follow your lead tonight as I went back to feeding every four hours last night which, whilst still so much better, is a bit of a backwards step. So my aim is not feeding before 12!

Wanted some advice re naps... CC is working in that baby goes to sleep fairly quickly, but always wakes up after 40 minutes or so. I feel like this is not enough time (he sleeps for much longer in the pram). Should I continue to CC and try to get him back to sleep? He seems so awake! Think I'm going to give it 20 mins (going in at intervals still) to see if he makes it up to an hour, what does everyone else think?

Titihood... Also had a big row with DH yesterday. THINK it was something to do with him passing me a book incorrectly ...

Ams25 I think 40 mins nap is fine for some babies! DD's sleep cycle seems to be 45 minutes as that's her normal length of nap, or 1.5 hours if she's really tired. I don't know who these gina ford babies who sleep 12-2 every day are, I've never seen one.

We had one backwards night but last night DD slept a five hour stretch again (at the beginning of the night so not much benefit to me), then woke hourly a couple of times, then 3 hours. I'm also trying to not bf with each waking but conscious that the crying wakes her up and then it can take much longer to get her back to sleep.

According to mum I was not a great sleeper but my brother was truly awful, but improved at 12 months, so I'm hoping I've only got another 4 months of it.