top tips for creating a "good" sleeper

[iskra]

DD1 was a terrible sleeper, I fed her to sleep/bf on demand throughout the night/got up every two hours etc until we cracked at 15 months & did controlled crying.

DD2 is 10 days old. Obviously I know this is far too young to do anything about her sleep, but what are your best tips for the future?

I have the NCSS somewhere in a box (just moved), hopefully that will surface & I can re-read it...

Bf on demand and bedshared with all, we all slept fine. Couldn't reliably report when any slept through or how much they fed but the stopped. Stayed downstairs until nearly a year and took them up when I went to bed, would just sleep in pram in kitchen or be out with me walking the dog etc.

Have done pretty much everything against the how to make good sleepers guides but still they have been fine.

Luck,genetics,so many other variables that can be influenced by use of routine,swaddling,whatever ,but that ultimately cannot change the childs own inherent biological clock.
I mean as adults we are all on a spectrum with regards to sleep patterns,some will spend hours twisting and turning,and rarely have a fully restful night,some are comatose.So to with babies.

My DD1 slept from 13 weeks,8-8.
My twins however are interesting-DTD slept from 7 weeks-10 hours,and just loves her cot and sleepy time.
DTS at 14 months still awakes at least once.Has slept throught exactly twice.
Same routines,all 3 children breastfed until 7 months,all well and healthy.

I agree accepting that there are things you cannot change is key,and that they all will sleep through eventually,but taking a long term view and working out how to manage rather than change is better.

light bright and noisy all day, make baby very used to noise and happy to sleep through it. I even used to switch on the telly whilst my first was small as house was too quiet.

warm, snug and quiet all night, and close to Mummy when they are small - they like the noise of your breathing. Co-sleep but not all the time (so they are happy to sleep in evenings when you want adult time) - pre-emptive feeding (ie, when baby wakes) so they settle back easily without ever getting upset. Night feeding with lights off, resist the urge to change the nappy every time (can be too often anyway depending how often they wake)

ignore the little meeping when they settle rather than picking them back up. Know when they are tired, and when they may need to just go to sleep rather than cuddle/feed. I recognise these things well in my brood. But of course, another one could always come and be a total bugger anyway.....

Know when the sleep regressions are (4 months, 6 months, 8/9 months, 11 months, 13 months, 15 months, 17 months, 18-21 months) and don't attempt sleep training of any sort then or it's very likely to fail.

The best way to find out about them is to read The Wonder Weeks although their website here gives an overview of it.

My advice? Go and buy/borrow the Baby Whisperer by Tracy Hogg, read it, do it, never look back.
Good sleepers can be made.

It's luck, and ultimately down to the individual character of the child. You can tweak things when you see which way things are going, but I don't believe there's a nice, or even particularly effective way to 'make' a good sleeper. DS1 was fed to sleep until he was 2. Didn't bother me, and he was fine with a bottle rather than boob on occasion. He's now 3.5 and a brilliant sleeper, does 13 hours sometimes without a peep.

Quite willing to bet I have one of the best slept babies around! - but no idea why?! Other than spending her first few weeks in SCBU where the routine was quite strict with minimal physical contact.

DD slept 12 hours a night before she was 'due' (10 weeks early, slept through at 6 weeks old) and since then I reckon she has been awake for a total of 30 mins overnight - she is 20 months tomorrow

I on the other hand didn't sleep longer than 5 hour stretches until I was 3!!! Mum is like she does't know what we are doing that she didn't! Nothing obviously - its your luck! (and I know we couldn't be luckier)

Another person vouching for the fact that co-sleeping/bf to sleep/bf on demand does not MAKE a bad sleeper. We did this with DD and are generally bad at routines full stop - she has always been a good(ish) sleeper. She's still in with us at 20 months and rarely wakes at night, if she does I still BF her back to sleep. It's probably not everyone's cup of tea but all I can say is that we all sleep well and feel quite content with it. If she'd been a bad sleeper I'm sure by now a more draconian approach would have been employed, like you!

So I'd say don't feel you can't give your second the same benefits you obviously felt went along with co-sleeping... maybe wait and see how she turns out (!), with just a bit more emphasis on routine from the start?

Hope that doesn't sound smug or anything. It'll be our turn for a terrible sleeper next time I reckon. I always think, I had a horrid pregnancy and birth, I got an easy baby - even stevens. All luck of the draw!

Don't fall into the trap when they're a bit bigger of assuming if you curtail the naps, they'll sleep more at night. If they're well rested in the day, they'll sleep better at night too.

My sister refuses to believe this is true, and frequently keeps her DD "going" to try to ensure she sleeps at night. It never works.

i will probably get shot down for this...
Our LO was sleeping from 7pm till 7am by 4-5 months. We made sure that we always kept her busy during the day and we left her have her sleeps. Routine is Dinner time at 5:30, giver her food untill she says she does not want anymore.
Bath at 5:50 to 6:15.
Downstairs get her dressed in something nice and warm whilst listening to some calming music. 6:15 to 6:40 read books with her make sure she calm and happy. Put her in sleepy suit (growbag) then BF. at 7pm put her in her cot. If she does wake up I deal with her, i go in to her room and dont speak to her, i lay her down and put my hand on her forehead to try and calm. wait max of 1 minute then leave room for 10 minutes. then repeat process again until she goes to sleep. we then extended the 10 minutes to 20 and now she self settles and sleeps through till 7am :)

Abra1d - I know of 3 families who have good sleepers and who co-sleep (one family have 2 children, and they have a family bed, and all sleep through the night in it). Likewise I know of several who don't co-sleep and have atrocious sleepers. I don't think there are any hard and fast rules to make a good sleeper, and do think there is a massive element of luck to it.

We used to put DS down in his moses basket to nap when he was tiny, and he would fall asleep for a microsecond before waking and shrieking the place down. some days, no matter what we did, he would only sleep 2 hours in 24 - and that was in a calming environment, plenty of milk, absolutely no reason not to sleep. We did shush pat for a couple of months and it just enraged him. Tried controlled crying a few times - the 1st 3 attempts, he got an ear infection within 3 days of us starting it, so we had to stop. The 4th time, we went on for 6 weeks of controlled crying, to no bloody avail. Got HV support, who checked and agreed we were doing nothing wrong that she could detect. Then, 2 or 3 weeks ago (so just before his 2nd birthday) someone recommended the Millpond book, and I got it out of the library, and DS slept thorough that night :o it's a powerful book :o but seriously, we have read it, realised we were effectively doing the gradual withdrawal technique, and he is going to bed brilliantly now with us in a different room, just not sleeping through (despite EVERYONE telling us 'oh, he'll sleep through as soon as he learns to go to sleep by himself!').

Hello - I agree with a lot of the other posters saying that it is essentially luck of the draw. If a baby is not ready, or simply doesn't want to sleep from 7 til 7, (pm to am!) I really don't think there is much you can do to force them. However, given your babe is still so young (congratulations BTW!), you can start to 'introduce' the idea of nighttime. Even though my baby was super-tetchy and would cry when I put him in the moses basket if he wasn't completely asleep, I just persevered in keeping things calm and dark at night.

Also, I didn't worry too much [lies] (actually I did, but I shouldn't have done!) about him sleeping on me, or in my bed in the event that the moses basket was rejected outright. The important thing for me was to get him and his little brain used to sleeping at night and at that early age, I don't think it matters if it's in a MB/cot or in my bed. others may disagree with that, but sleep at night was the objective for me.

A massive Thank you to everyone who has acknowledged that it is largely luck.

I am in a bad place right now with sleeping (DD has never slept through - still wakes every 2 hours at a year old) and am struggling as I am back at work full time (DH is a stay at home dad).

I am frankly pretty sick of people telling me "oh, you need to get in a routine dear.. make daytime for awake and nighttime for sleeping..."

I have done EVERYTHING by the book. From pretty much day one I have
(1) never had the light on or verbally engaged with DD at night (but I admit I have never held back from cuddles/feeds if she is upset - I havn't done CC);
(2) never let her fall asleep on the breast (or not from about 6 weeks anyway) - she has always gone into her cot sleepy and will fall asleep in there;
(3) had a short but sweet bedtime routine which I never deviate from (story, bath, final short story, feed, cuddle)....

and she is still a crap sleeper. I do feel like I've somehow done it all wrong.... but I have done nearly everything suggested on here. She has two naps (and I followed her cues on when they should be) and in the night, i always see if she will settle, then cuddle, then only feed if she is really hungry - I don't just pop her straight on the boob at the first wriggle!

Sigh.

I actually get quite upset when people think they have somehow made their babies into good sleepers and are rather smug about it ("oooh, its routine, routine, routine... I instigated it from 2 weeks and made my wonderful sleeper!")

Has anyone else been here?!

legallyblonde Yes, my dd2 was a dreadful sleeper as I've said, dd1 was right through at 9 weeks, that was awful, in that I didn't understand why she wasn't the same. I did all the things you mentioned and ccing. She was formula fed. All she wanted was me and that was bloody wearing. In the end I brought her into bed with me, that was all she wanted, I fought doing it up until she was about 15 months, then I realised that I hadn't feckin' slept in 2 years.

When she was in with me, she slept right through, I'm lucky in that husband works shifts and can be away a lot of nights so it wasn't too cramped. She started after about 3/4 months of going to bed herself, then coming into us when she woke, which was then whittled down. She first started to completely sleep through from about 7.30pm the week dd3 was born

When she was very small I was scundered in telling people she didn't sleep, then when dd1 started nursery I mentioned it to another Mum and these other Mums came over and said their dc didn't sleep, there were about 8 of us out of a group of 23 with really poor sleepers - lot more common than people let on you think.

I always used to think it's luck until we had DS2. We did very gentle CC with DS2 at 5 weeks, letting him cry a little but not get distressed, and he slept through the night 12 hours from 6 weeks. With DS2, I was adament I wanted to molly-cuddle him and I ended up waking every hour and a half cuddling or feeding him, whenever he woke up. At 8 weeks I was close to getting diagnosed for depression from lack of sleep, I was crying non-stop and wasn't functioning at all. So with great reluctance I did CC with DS2 at 9 weeks. I had planned for it to go on for 2 weeks as I was determined never to let him get upset during the training, but much to my surprise after 2 days he went from waking up every 2 hours to sleeping 7pm-7am. I can't believe I hadn't done it earlier, as he became a happier baby (wasn't yawning and cranky all through the day from tiredness) and recovered from his everylasting cold/cough within a few days just because he was getting proper rest at night.

Despite all this, I admit there might still be an element of luck in there in that my DC probably are the 'easier' ones who sleep through the night and only needed very little help to do so.

legallyblonde Oh and if one more person had have told me to give her plenty of fresh air I would have lamped them We walked everywhere, I didn't drive then.

I have just cracked my DD's sleeping after a year. She wouldn't go down without milk and cuddles and then we had to repeat the processing the night, at least once. Prob user error but nevertheless it was All v tiring! A HV suggested the 'kiss and retreat' method and we've not looked back! I've always been a wimp re. controlled crying but this way, although tough to start with, is much less stressful and really does work!

Essentially you need to ensure that baby's last memory before sleep isn't milk or mummy so that if she wakes in the night she doesn't miss either and will turn over and go back to sleep (a nightlight is essential). You need to do your normal bed time routine but if milk is the last thing you do, swap it round so it's milk, then story, then put bubs in the cot, give a kiss and say 'mummy will be back in a minute to kiss you goodnight'. Instead of leaving, faff in the nursery for a second or two and then kiss again and go out. At every slightly upset noise go back in, kiss and come back out. Apparently it can take up to 3 hours and 300 kisses on the first night but we managed it in 45 mins. It will take 6 or 7 days to get the routine down pat and although every day it gets easier day 5 is a killer (bubs will test you). It really does happen v quickly. The hardest bit is in the night when you have to do the whole thing all over (I was always lazy and put DD in bed with us!) but since I did the 'programme' she goes down within seconds of being in her cot and sleeps for 11 hours!

So for the ramble-I'm more of a reader of posts than a contributed but for once I felt I had something valid to contribute!

Legally a friend has four, she let them cry a bit, had a routine, and was a bit scathing of bad sleepers thinking their parents a bit hysterical/over responsive etc. Then she had number four...non of them slept much for years. Adults now and number four sleeps for less and more lightly than the others, he is a sinewy energetic chap...destiny?

I just took a slightly different approach and thought if it's down to luck anyway, why upset yourself and the baby trying to "train" them into sleeping (as though sleeping through is some kind of conscious decision ) - just set things up so that their night wakings disturb you as little as possible. DS woke up lots more than his contemporaries but I didn't seem as tired or stressed by it as the other parents.

So, co-slept until about 2.4 and then moved DS into his own room as I discovered he slept better alone (if DP was staying over and I had the sofabed with him), and he also developed an annoying habit of kicking the duvet down so it wasn't on me any more. I'm glad I waited until this age because it meant if he woke he could just come in to find me rather than me having to get up which was more wakening. He was slightly more unsettled for a few weeks and then started sleeping through. I have absolutely no problems detaching from him, what a funny thing to assume.

Must just be luck I guess - but we kind of expected them to be good sleepers and they were...... we put them down awake - fed, burped, told a story and sleepy - but awake - and said night night, turned out the light, and that was it - sometimes they would gurgle/sing themselves to sleep, but from 6 weeks both of them slept 11pm til 7am.

As they got older, they went to sleep earlier - but still wake at/around 7.

sometimes attitude does play a part

Yes legally we been there &got the Tshirt with DD1! She 4.5yr now and still patches of nightmare sleep, not helped by us having 5wk old baby who sleeps better than she ever die.
I think its 75%child personality &25% parenting. Yes you need the basics as mentioned here but if you have a lively child you just have to find ways to survive! I was much better once I mentally got my head around it wasn't my thought as I was getting depressed from exhaustion that I was doing something wrong this was when she was one. The millpond sleep clinic book is gd. We used a form of gradual retreat &door shutting to get her to sleep in her own room at 3yrs but took 2months not couple of nights as book suggested

Also look at diet. The book Fed up by Sue Dengate very gd we found apples in afternoon made DD1 hypo, red berries &tomatos I'd avoid too many as there was a build up effect she would end up wired. Plus no OJ or oranges. And you are not alone, lots of children are poor sleepers!

Did not die opps!

I agree with those who say there is a large dose of luck involved. I have 2 sleepers - the eldest slept 12 h from 9 months and the youngest from 3months. My sister and good friend have one of each - we all use similar techniques and my sister has managed to crack her bad sleeper now at 9 months with a pretty intense week of controlled crying and friend managed it at 15 months (we swear that it was a conversation we had of moving her cot into the cupboard under the stairs!) The only common thread was each of them reaching the end of the tether where it was sort it out or collapse in a quivering puddle!!