top tips for creating a "good" sleeper

[iskra]

DD1 was a terrible sleeper, I fed her to sleep/bf on demand throughout the night/got up every two hours etc until we cracked at 15 months & did controlled crying.

DD2 is 10 days old. Obviously I know this is far too young to do anything about her sleep, but what are your best tips for the future?

I have the NCSS somewhere in a box (just moved), hopefully that will surface & I can re-read it...

I've had one appalling sleeper and one decent one. I'd advise putting them down awake from an early age, maybe swaddled at first, and doing cc as soon as they hit 6 months. Doing it with a toddler or older child is soul-destroying. I really think if you put the work in when they're tiny; like easing them out of night feeds, low key interaction at night, regular bedtime etc you prevent problems and heartache later on. Good luck.

I'm a lucky one, too. DD slept thru from 3 months - I'd put her in her cot at around 8, fetch her at 12 or 1-ish to nurse (she usually would not really wake up fully for that), and put her back to bed where she'd sleep until about 7 AM. She's been a great sleeper ever since. She is 15 months now and no problems, ever.

I say I am very lucky, because what I planned, actually worked with the baby I got. I did not want to co-sleep, and I didn't. I wanted a loose routine, and I was able to stick to one. I wanted her to 'put herself to sleep', rather than always needing to be nursed to sleep, and that worked brilliantly. I didn't want to use a dummy, and I never have. So - I guess I stuck to my plan, but I can't really take any credit for it working, either - it just suited her, too!

Now I just think - how long can it last...?

We FF our DD - almost 3 months now. Our dr advised us to get her on a 4hr feeding schedule so we did feeds at 6am, 10am, 2pm, 6pm, 2am. We did a split shift so I did the 2am feed and DH did the 6am feed. One Saturday morning DH slept through the alarm and DD woke up at 9.45am. From that day on we cut out the 2am feed and let her sleep through.

I also use the sleepsheep as through trial and error we found DD likes the sound of the ocean. I put her in her crib fully awake, put the sleepsheep on and walk away. She is normally asleep within 5mins. I put this down to luck and hope she and our future children are all like this!

I don't know if it is luck or not - but I was very strict and put DS to bed (in our room for first week and then in his own room - I know this is frowned on) at 7pm, shut the door and just assumed he would sleep - I never went in for rocking him to sleep or anything. Never had any problems . Fortunately I found Mumsnet after he was born so I didn't even know about all these sleep issues !

People I know who have children who won't/can't sleep seem to have great difficulty in detatching themselves from the baby/child - I firmly believe that babies need to learn how to get to sleep on their own.

Second all the bedtime routines, did them all with mine, all bf, none co-slept. All bath, bed clothes, darkened room, feed, bed from a very, very young age (worked so well with number 1 did it early as possible with next 2).

But don't forget the day. Doesn't need to be too rigid and it can't be with your second. But most bf babies will need feeding 1.5-2 hourly in the day for the first few months, so don't skimp on the milk. For the first 3 months they will also need to nap every 2 hours as well, so do what ever it takes to get them to have a bit of a nap: sling, rock in carseat/bouncy chair, push in pram. Ensure they are not overtired in the day - I found napping became less frequent and regulated itself at about 6ms, but before then they need to sleep.

I was a bit naughty by dc2&3 and used to not let them sleep after 4.30 and then start bedtime routine around 5.30pm. Also I found all mine as babies went to bed much easier between 6&7pm then leaving it later. And actually it works well as baby is in bed and then you can put older one to bed.

Anyway, worked for me 3 times.

The one thing that I don't think anyone has said yet is to get them lots of daytime sunlight when they're tiny to help them understand the difference between day and night. Penelope Leach's golden rule is to be very very boring at nighttime.

And I love Richard Ferber's Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems. It contains a pretty strong chapter on CC, which you may wish to skip completely (I did a bit of CC with my two at bedtime at around 8 months but never did it in the night), but the rest of it is full of really helpful ways of thinking about the issues.

We have a boy who is 7. He did used to sleep very well in a sleep sack when he was young and in his cot. I found this was great as it kept him snuggly and secure. Since he could climb out of the cot he toddles down to us every night at some point - but we all do get a good night's sleep!

It's luck. Ds1 was an awful sleeper, and still isn't brilliant at 2.10yo. Ds2 is 16 weeks has slept through (8-7) from 8 weeks. I did nothing differently with ds2. I think you can help with a routine etc, but generally it's just them.

We had a great routine going from about 8 weeks, but Dd didn't sleep reliably until about 22 months.

With her I think the main problem has always been her teeth. She's suffered so badly with them, and in the short periods between teething episodes she was in the habit of waking, and I was in the habit of going in to comfort her, so she never had a chance to learn to sleep better. Our experience of CC backs this up... (she had always relied on being bf to sleep and couldn't self settle) I tried it a couple of times at 9 and 11 months and could tell from the first 30 minutes that it wasn't going to work. Then tried it in a brief tooth-pain free window at 13 months, and it worked like a dream (with very little crying)... for about 3 weeks until the eye teeth started pushing through.

Basically, I think it's great if they know how to self settle as early as possible, and it's great if they have a relaxing routine which lets them know it's bedtime, but these will only work if there is no other underlying problem (wind/teeth/overtiredness/hunger/separation anxiety/growth spurt etc etc).

'Second all the bedtime routines, did them all with mine, all bf, none co-slept. All bath, bed clothes, darkened room, feed, bed from a very, very young age (worked so well with number 1 did it early as possible with next 2).'

Me too. Only co slept on very rare occasions when they were very small babies.

It isn't just luck. You can nudge them gently towards sleeping well.

Ragwort - I am pleased for you that your DS was a good sleeper (is he your only child?) but honestly, babies who don't sleep don't always have parents who "can't detach themselves from the baby" even if this is the case for your friends. There are so many anecdotes on this thread of the same parents who have more than one child where one child is a good sleeper and others aren't, even with the same parents.

If my DD2 was my first child I would be feeling very smug about how my great parenting skills had resulted in a good sleeper. As it was, I had DD1 first and implementing many of the prescribed good sleep methods didn't have any effect for several months.

I was also concerned that you mentioned that having your baby in a separate room was "frowned upon". The advice that the baby should sleep in your room isn't just some old wives tale or parenting choice which is equally valid to the baby having its own room. It's one of the measures to prevent cot death (see here). Parents should weigh up the risks and benefits of having the baby in the parents' room vs in a room by him or herself in the knowledge of this official advice. Some parents will of course choose to have the baby in a separate room, but at least they will have made an informed decision.

Get your DP to deal with night wakings.....

Seriously, agree with others that have said in that babies are born with their own individual needs and there isn't one routine for all. I thank my lucky stars that DS likes to sleep and feel bad for saying it to other parents that are going through hell with sleep deprivation. It really is the luck of the draw IMO.

Just remember that when they're teenagers you can lie in as much as you like

Nothing you can do will guarantee you a good sleeper, but there are things you can do which will pretty much guarantee you a bad one.

Swaddle with a Miracle blanket
Swaddle with a Miracle blanket
Swaddle with a Miracle blanket
Swaddle with a Miracle blanket
Swaddle with a Miracle blanket
Swaddle with a Miracle blanket

Ds1 was a pretty good sleeper so I didn't use one - he slept through at about 4 monthsd with no encouragement or 'training'.

Had the most hellish 10 weeks of my life when DS2 was born, until someone lent me a Miracle blanket. It didn't stop all the night wakings, but the crucial difference was that I could put him down easily, instead of him taking 1 hr+ to settle every time. He was transformed and after a few weeks he would visibly sigh with relief when we wrapped him up. He grew out of it at about 3 months but we continued with a home made mock up until 7 months ish, when he could manage without it.

I've now got 10 wk old twins, who are sleeping amazingly. DTS is so like DS2 was, and loves his swaddle. I don't use it in the day but it's great to help settle him at night as he can get frantic when overstimulated and tired. He goes down at about 7.30 pm, wakes to feed at about 3 am, then sleeps till 6.30 am ish - pretty damn good I reckon.

DTD is even better, esp considering that at not yet 10 lbs she hardly bigger than a newborn. She's sleeping through from 8.30 pm ish until 6.30am ish

They're quick feeders which helps, but in their swaddles they go back down easily, so night feeds only take 10-15 mins - hurray!

I'm v lucky with my twins, I know at and it's not all down to the swaddle. If they're genuinely hungry, like DS2 was (he fed at night until 8 months) then they'll still wake to feed, but getting them to sleep is SO much easier, nad once asleep, they won't wake themselves up flailing about.

100% recommended in this household

Oh, and they were / are all breastfed too

Jojay I am sooo with you on the absolute joy of the swaddle. I know some babies loathe being swaddled, but when they love it, it's a gift from God isn't it (relief emoticon). My son loved it the tighter the better, and still loved it when he was 6 months old! I won't know what to do with the next one if he/she doesn't like it!

You can try to encourage sleeping by doing all the routines etc yadda yadda yadda, but some babies just don't lie to sleep. My top tip in those cases would be to stop hoping that they will sleep through by 6 months, a year, 2 years and just find some way of coping with it.

Wigeon - I appreciate that it may be luck that my DS slept so well but I also agree with the other posters who consistently say that a routine, dark room etc helps to make a good sleeper.

Yes, I am very aware of the advice that a baby should sleep with its parents for the first six months but as DH or I never sleep well (neither together nor with a baby in the room ) we chose to sleep separately.

I do appreciate that many babies will not settle but in my personal experience, which is obviously very limited, the parents I know who complain that their children will not sleep will just not put them to bed on their own, they constantly check on them, offer drinks, cuddles etc etc etc. One of my dearest friends has not had an unbroken night in nine years - apart from the one night her DC stayed with a relative - they managed to sleep through that night . Again, this is only my personal view from what I have seen.

'You can try to encourage sleeping by doing all the routines etc yadda yadda yadda, but some babies just don't lie to sleep. My top tip in those cases would be to stop hoping that they will sleep through by 6 months, a year, 2 years and just find some way of coping with it.'

Miss Beehiving - you are absolutely right. Mindset is everything, and if you accept that you can't always change they way things are, life is an awful lot easier.

I've had two appalling sleepers - do I get a prize

Ragwort - I spent a lot of time thinking with DS1 thinking that I could do something constructive to influence his sleeping patterns and did all of the things that have been mentioned further up the thread. Made absolutely no difference at all.

dark room from 7pm till 7am to mirror natural light patterns as your body sets itself by light. can be comforted as much as needed / fed if necessary, but not taken out of the dimly lit "sleep area". Then at 7am into bright "day rooms". Can nap there if they wish, but at least you're letting their bodies react to a more natural pattern of day/night if there arent tellys flickering and things going on etc. did this from 3 weeks, have an embarrassingly good sleeper, I almost have to down play it to my friends who are up at 5am with their toddlers still

Sleeping bags are a good idea, too, as the babies don't wake up from kicking off their covers. My daughter slept much better after four months when I finally got round to getting a bag for her.

I agree with Ragwort and have noted that some of the friends who've had the worst sleeping babies do over fuss them at night. Don't feed them at night once they're past the age or needing food. Don't do breastfeeding to soothe them back to sleep (unless they're ill). Don't turn on lights. Ignore the grizzly sounds they make when they not quite awake and just need to self-settle (but obviously don't ignore crying that indicates distress or fear, etc).

And don't bloody co-sleep. Unless it's when they're tiny, again, and you're feeding. Or they're ill. Or in other exceptional circumstances (very bad dreams). None of the people I know with good sleepers from about six or seven months did much co-sleeping.

It is worth trying to encourage them to sleep when they're young and not being fatalistic about it (obviously not tiny little babies, but once they're six months or so).

I can actually beat Ragwort's story about a nine-year-old non-sleepr, as we know an 11-year-old who has only just started sleeping through at home. She sleeps fine at our house or at her grandmother's but wakes her mother up every night for company at home. Her mother has to get up at 5am for work three mornings a week and can ill afford the broken nights.

Sorry if I am repeating something that's already been said, but my tip would be to instill early on that daytime is for eating and nighttime is for sleeping. So agree with those that said fun day and boring night. My DD slept downstairs/tv on/curtains open for naps and only used her nursery (dark/quiet) for night time (I know some won't agree with this necessarily but it has worked so far for me...i'll come back to you when she's a toddler and refusing to nap in her cot you could always use the nursery but keep it light and leave the radio on during the day?).

So I fed her on demand during the day, encouraged cluster feeding before bed and then bedtime routine. She has slept through since 5wo. I know this means my next baby will come straight from hell but I will cross that bridge when I get to it(!) I am already being punished by struggling with day naps now she is 4mo, but I am hoping to get this cracked ASAP!

DS was useless sleeper, then got loads better about 2 months and slept through by 3 months.

DD was seemingly better at first but then stayed at (fairly good) newborn level for about a year. Then got worse . Finally started getting a bit better by 2 and by 3 was sleeping through regularly. Then became v good sleeper.

I did do "bedtime" from about 8 weeks with DS and didn't until about 6 months with DD. DD also in our room longer as there was more space. Both bf. DS happily had a dream feed, DD didn't.

It always amuses me when parents of good sleepers assume that bad sleepers are a result of things like rocking/cosleeping/feeding to sleep. In many cases those actions are the last resort of parents who have tried the routines and the darkness and all the other perfectly sensible suggestions with no success, and who are doing whatever they can to preserve a little sanity.