Would you try controlled crying if it felt wrong wrong wrong?

[OComeOliveFaithfOil]

I am getting very peed off with dd2, nearly 16 months.

She goes down ok at 7pm, and will wake within the next hour, I settle her by lying on our bed then lift her into her cot. Then sometimes she will go through, sometimes she will wake in the night (again, brought into our bed then resettled).

However, lately she has been downstairs with us until nearly 10pm and I am getting mightily fed up. We do not have any time to ourselves and I do not get any time away from my children.

Dd1 is 3 and sleeps like a dream, and we haven't done anything different with dd2 so WHY WON'T SHE SLEEP?

I have always gone with my gut instinct on parenting issues and controlled crying just seems mean and cruel but I can't think of anything else to sort it out.

Help.

xx

Sits on my knee having a cuddle and wanting to play with toys.

Monday she was really upset but last night she was ok as soon as she came down.

She is on the blag isn't she?

Yep.

Thought you would say that.

x

She definitely is! My ds used to have such fun at 1am, bouncing up and down on the bed, playing with my hair, crawling under the bed clothes, poking my eyes with his fingers. Of course they don't like it when that fun is taken away, but they don't miss it for long and they catch on so quickly.
It is completely your call - but just think after few nights and you'd have your evenings back again. Could I also suggest (if you do decide to try again) that you find somewhere comfy to sit upstairs because if you are trudging up and down the stairs every 5/10 mins for possibly an hour or more, you will get very tired.

Yes, have thought of that, have Eve mag at the ready and will stay in our room away from The Moody One downstairs.

dd1 has her own room and will sleep through anything so will not be disturbed (hopefully) by any screeching from up the corridor.

we did controlled crying with dd when she was just over 1. it was awful, took 2 weeks but it was definatley worth it, after that she slept alot better. as some people have already said, if you are going to start it, you have to see it through otherwise it can only make things worse as the child will get confused.

Yes but if you stay in her room will she then not settle unless you are always there? Then you have another problem!

If you want her to be able to go to sleep in her own room, by herself, without waking up at night crying, then you simply have to go the whole hog, or you are just swapping one problem for another. 3 nights is all it takes for cc to work, 3 nights.

I wouldn't do CC if I was uncomfortable with it. I tried it with dd2 and it was an utter nightmare, I still feel sick to my stomach about it even though it was a number of years ago now. But I imagine that if you have a child that you think will respond positively then it's worth a go.

Have not read through the whole thread, but 3 nights of crying, is 3 nights too many for a lot of parents to consider. Controlled crying is a very questionable method of training a child to sleep.

Australian Association for Infant Mental Health paper on controlled crying

Don't know if anyone mentioned the No Cry Sleep Solution - she has a book for toddlers and preschoolers. Sounds like you would feel more comfortable with her very gentle, child-centric methods OO if you feel uncomfortable about CC.

I am not sure I agree with controlled crying to get your kids to sleep. We tried it - as a bit of a last resort but it did not work. My little boo just cried and cried, it could go on for hours until we held onto her, calmed her and got her off to sleep. She did not sleep through the night (I consider this 8 hours) until she was over 12 months. She wanted comforting to sleep from the start. She would cry if she was not being held. At 19 months she still does not get herself off to sleep. We have leared to live with this.

My son, on the other hand has slept though the night from just a few weeks old (about 6) and even before this he was asleep for very long periods at night . He does not need to be held all the time, goes off to sleep easy as pie.

I dont think we have treated them any differently, they are just different and they respond as such.

My opinion there is no one difinitave method that gets them to sleep. Do what is right for you and what works for you. No one else is important.

I would only do cc on a child that is over 1 year of age. 3 nights of crying does not mean that child is crying all night, the first night is the worst, perhaps a couple of hours of you going in every 10 to 20 mins repeating the mantra to them. The second night this time is halved and the third night it is halved again if it has not stopped altogether.

I have used cc on my ds on and off now since he was a year old. I always check that his nappy is not soiled, he is not in pain and he is not thirsty. Then I follow the rules above. When I have deviated from this, when I have been soft and allowed him to go into our bed, I have paid dearly for it.

For instance he was waking at 7am every morning just recently and I used to take him into our bed for an extra half hours kip. But then he started waking at 6am, then at 5 or 4am. Eventually we had to do the cc for him again. He was very angry that we dared to leave him! After 3 nights he was sleeping through again. But he still tries it on every now and then like last night. I refuse to keep getting out of bed for a 2 year old, especially when we have work in the morning.

Controlled crying is not guaranteed to work and has unknown effects on the child who is going through it.

"when I have been soft and allowed him to go into our bed"

Quite a major judgement on co-sleeping there.

I will parp myself now, a claxon should have sounded as soon as I got within a mile on this thread...

You can never really know why a child wakes and cries. It could be fear, boredom, lonliness, teething, gnerally unwell, too hot, too cold, habit, too bright, too dark, hunger, thirst anmd countless other reasons.

My problem with CC is that it assumes only a couple of reasons for the waking and addresses those. It works for some people and not others. I agree with the link below that things settle at about 3yrs.

As I said earlier DS was a dreadful sleeper and we didn't try any method as his skin was so badly infected it would have been much worse had he been left alone. He always scratched when distressed. He was prescribed sleeping medication at one point but I balked at this. At about 3 he improved.

I hope you find something that works for you cos it is very draining on a relationship and on you when you have no time to yourselves. I'm sure I aged noticably in the first few years.

I can only speak for my child. We do not bedshare with him because he tends to kick and thump me in the night and dh hates it.

I do know why he is crying. I can differentiate between his cries. I know when he is truly upset, when he is hurt, when he is tired and when he is angry. When he wakes in the night he moans at first, then he cries and stops, listening to see if we are coming, then he'll cry a little louder, he will shout at us and sometimes scream with fury. He wants attention. But at 4am it's not on imo.

CC has worked for us very well. Ds is a little demon, if we let him he would rule our lives. We have to be firm on him at the table, when he is playing with his sister, etc, he is constantly testing the boundaries. And yes he does get lots of attention. He goes to creché 2.5 days a week where he plays very nicely with children of his own age. Both myself and dh spend time playing with him during the day and his big sister is very good with him.

Last night he was not ill, his nappy was not dirty, he was not thirsty. So we decided to leave him, he got very angry at this, and we lengthened the duration we went in to check on him to every 20 mins as he was waiting for our next 'visit'. This morning when I got him up he was all smiles and his usual self.

My personal feeling is that night-time should not be treated differently to any other time of the day. So if you do not bow down to his every demand during the day, why would you at night? Is this not giving them a mixed message? That they must behave during the day but be naughty at night? What do you do when they tant and scream during the day for attention? I believe in consistency. But I also believe in fairness and love and this is what I give to my children.

Rightly or wrongly we all do what we feel is best for our children.

We did it, it was difficult, and at the time sometimes felt like it was cruel. My children now go to sleep happily, get 12 hrs of sleep every night, and quickly settle themselves back to sleep if they do wake up. I think it would have been more cruel to them and us to have years of disrupted sleep, which is destructive to relationship the next day when everyone is ratty because they are tired. I look at it as teaching them how to sleep and settle yourself to sleep, which is an invaluable gift.
I think some children have a greater propensity towards sleep than others. With my first it was a complete struggle, with my second it was pretty easy because she has more passive tendencies. It always helped me to keep the longer picture in sight.

I've done cc to some dgree with both dd's.Neiher show any sign of being damaged by it & are very good sleepers.It isn't nice to do,but my thoughts were that itwasn't kind not to let a child learn how to settle itself back to sleep on his/her own.

I also have 2 friends with 7 & 9 year olds who still share their parents bed or require a parent to lie next to them to go to sleep.That isn't fair on anyone,& I didn't want my girls to be dependent on someone else to get to sleep.

Also with Colditz on the not coming downstairs once in bed,unless they are poorly.

Well last night was a lot better. She woke at 8pm, I took her to lie on my bed and she snuggled in and settled. But as soon as I picked her up to put her back in her cot she screeched and I left her for 5 mins (so I could shovel my dinner in ).

Went back up and she had done a poo AGAIN! So changed her then back up, 5 mins later, another cuddle, then she whinged half arsedly for about 10 mins......and I had to wake her up at 7am this morning!

Now this to me is not cruel, the picture I have in my head of CC is a paragraph in a Gina Ford book of the parents sobbing in a room whilst their child sobbed and cried for over 90 mins , that to be is VERY cruel and something I could never ever do.

So I think my gentle way sits far better with me. I know some of you will think it is wrong of me to pick her up and lie down with her but imo it is whatever you feel comfortable with.

I may patent this as the Soft Arse Sleep Solution!

xx

SASS I like it!
You coming on Sunday or wot?

Just caught up with this thread this morning.

If it's any help (probably not) we did CC at 10 weeks on advice of a nanny as ds was not only up about 7 times a night but also not sleeping at all during the day and dh and I were nearing breaking point. CC worked wonderfully - nanny's advice was leave for 20 mins in first instance, then go in and comfort (but not pick up), then leave again for 15 mins, then 10 etc. Know that this is backwards of what is usually suggested but it worked VERY quickly for us. Also I think you soon know the difference between complete and utter hysteria (as is the way with both ds and dh!) and just "normal" crying. If hysteria was looming I'd go in straightaway.

This all worked fabulously for about 14 months - now ds is waking again. We've found that unless he has a small amount of milk at 11-ish he's up at 3.30am which is great! So we're in the process of reducing the milk again and trying another bout of CC. I think that as he gets older he certainly "tries it on" a bit as it's lovely to come into my bed at 11pm and play with the cats and watch CSI...

Didn't help that yesterday he had to go to nursery for the first time on an emergency childcare place as nanny blended her finger last week (that's another Stephen King type story!). So what with lack of sleep in an unfamiliar environment, not eating and being completely k*d after a day of tearing around and glueing glitter we were up until 2am...

Sorry - I've been rambling - what I meant to say is do try CC if you can. I don't thinks it's cruel personally (although it can be hell for the parents) - you'll all be much happier with a better night's sleep. Get dh on board though!

Well done Oliveoil, that sounds like a much better evening. At the end of the day, you just need to find a solution that works for you. I think not taking her downstairs and keeping it all very low key & bed / sleep related is a really good idea.

Im a CC fan, but, adjusting naps and bedtime can also work wonders before starting any sleep 'training'.

No is my answer. You have to go with your heart on this is what I believe. This is only temporary, there is an end to this, all children will eventually sleep through the night and become independent and all children are different. DD2 might just need more loving and cuddles--you are the only one that knows what she needs as her Mum, she might be terribly sensitive, she might have a very active mind and doesn't want to miss anything...it could be any number of things. Good luck in whatever you decide to do!

I have no guilt about using the CC technique as it has led to my son being a really reliable sleeper who is happy to be in his cot. Having said that, I think it's important to realise that there are different types of crying and leaving your baby wailing when there is clearly something wrong is not on. The best advice I was given is that if you do CC, you need to listen to see if the crying starts to tone down. If it goes on and on increasing in volume it's not working and your baby may have wind/ be tangled in the cot bars/ have a sore bum etc etc. I would also not leave my son for more than five minutes in the first instance and ten minutes after that, having gone in and stroked his back/ talked to him etc. because i think babies need to be reassured that they are safe before they can drop off.

I think babies often cry when they are exhausted and are desperate to go to sleep. Although it seems the natural thing to do, constant cuddling and jiggling up and down when they are in this state just seems to make it worse. Having said that, babies in other cultures spend virtually their whole time in their mother's arms and are very content. For better or worse, our western lifestyle doesn't make it easy for us to do this, so careful CC is the answer if you want to stay sane!

I must be the only one who doesn't recognise the difference in my DD's crying. I recognise her screeching when she simply wants something but most of her actual crying sounds the same. Last post was interesting in that if the crying increases in volume then it's not working.

Some of you mentioned that it's about teaching them to fall asleep on their own, well my DD can about 50% of the time fall asleep and have a good night but the other 50% is a bit of a mystery which is where my teething theory comes in. This morning for example she was crying and when I went to her she was actually knawing the cot bars. She has wo red cheeks today and we can actually see the teeth coming through.

We will probably have days like this where it would be silly to even try CC. I'm pretty sure that when the teeth are through she will be a good sleeper. She slept throught the night from about 6 weeks old until about 5 mths old and since then we have had this 50/50 game.

I'm not against CC but perhaps you have to know your child really well and be confident that you can read their crying.