Would you try controlled crying if it felt wrong wrong wrong?

[OComeOliveFaithfOil]

I am getting very peed off with dd2, nearly 16 months.

She goes down ok at 7pm, and will wake within the next hour, I settle her by lying on our bed then lift her into her cot. Then sometimes she will go through, sometimes she will wake in the night (again, brought into our bed then resettled).

However, lately she has been downstairs with us until nearly 10pm and I am getting mightily fed up. We do not have any time to ourselves and I do not get any time away from my children.

Dd1 is 3 and sleeps like a dream, and we haven't done anything different with dd2 so WHY WON'T SHE SLEEP?

I have always gone with my gut instinct on parenting issues and controlled crying just seems mean and cruel but I can't think of anything else to sort it out.

Help.

xx

oh dear olive. Not wanting to put you off further but I would batten down the hatches for tonight. She may well have got the message now that all she has to do is scream and scream to get taken downstairs.

I would have a serious chat to dh because if he really doesn't want her sleeping sorted quickly, then he's really going to confuse her and give her mixed messages (with you being all tough and him being all soft!).

Maybe you could try a compromise with him, that he can go in and stroke her head but he can't (under no circumstances) take her out of the cot and bring her downstairs?

No expert here but the thing that worries me about CC is when your child is ill or teething. I have tried it a bit and the next morning DD clearly had a cold which had not been obvious the night before so spent the next few nights responding to her needs.

Similarily DD is teething now so I don't think you can't really do CC when a child is obviously in pain. The first few months are difficult with all these variables. Perhaps the more experienced parents can explain how you deal with these kind of variables. Also what do you do if child wakes in the middle of the night, do you start again? Will you be awake enough to go through the whole palava. And finally what how do you deal with the fact that you have other children needing their sleep in the house.

I have tried the Baby Whisperer method and stuck to it religiously for about 3 weeks and it didn't work. If DD would co sleep like her brother I would do this.

My DS was a terrible sleeper and had evere eczema and if left to cry would tear his skin to pieces so we could do anything with him. Eventualy he improved but only when he could be reasoned with at about 2.5 or 3 years old. He is still a poor sleeper.

Message withdrawn

Olive, good luck with this, I guess what I wanted to say is keep strong, because however you deal with it, it's got to be dealt with otherwise your daughter will carry on being a bad sleeper.

only you know whether you will go down controlled crying route - but how about a few small changes while you think about it? I would suggest NEVER bringing her down stairs. At the moment, you are training her to cry for a bit, then she gets the reward of coming down for lovely interesting, cost time with adoring mum and dad! Effectively, without meaning to, this is all you are showing her about bed at the moment!! So when she wakes, comfort but don't talk, put her down a.s.a.p, keep lights off, and if you stay with her to avoid the crying, then sit in the room, quietly. Boring for you, AND her. Not quite such a reward as she gets at the moment.

I think Gina Ford has written about this kind of more gentle approach. I think the idea is that night after night you move physically further away from her. Might be worth investigating her book?

We did do controlled crying and it did work, though my son has had phases of slipping back. He's now three and obviously controlled crying didn't work for us recently but funnily enough what has worked a treat is that my husband took over his bedtime. He is happier for dad to leave the room than me. If he woke in the night, we would both go in so that I could cuddle and reassure, then I would go, and my husband would wait with him for a minute, then he would go. I just think he senses that dad has less patience at 3am and is not going to take the nonsense that mum does!

If you DO controlled crying, DO NOT FEEL GUILTY. It's not harming her. What would harm her is not having good nights sleep througout her childhood. Most likely the crying is anger rather than upset. Your daughter does not know she needs limits set and she will naturally try and kick against them!!

Good luck!

dh is still in a mood, feel like doing cc on him.

Am going to attempt again tonight and ignore him, think football is on so hopefully he will be busy.

I know it is wrong to bring her down but it is heartbreaking listening to her sob, will try and get a backbone for later.

Am off on an early lunch, fed up, going shopping.

Ta for support.

x

Eaney - you have to do it in the middle of the night as well. Different babies have different issues - some will not settle at bedtime, some wake up and won't resettle, some do both, some have milk/dummies/other comforters issues so you have to work on what issues you have.

However the older children issue is an interesting point. Because that is precisely the main reason why we had to sort DD's sleeping out because she was disturbing DS. Obviously in this instance a good idea is to start it at weekend or in the school holidays where it doesn't matter as much if the older child is disturbed.

Cuddle her in a dark room, you old softie

It does feel wrong, very wrong, all your instincts are screaming out for you to be with your child. It doesn't help if you don't have a supportive partner, mine was a damn sight tougher on cc than I was!

But look at it this way, I know loads, literally loads of mothers who still get up in the night to comfort their 3/4 year olds, because they've been doing it since they were babies and it's a habit. I know loads who have to co-sleep with their children because again, it's a habit. These mums are literally tied to their babies, they can't go out in the evenings because their children need them there. Eventually it destroys your social life. Ask your dh what would happen if you both wanted to get a babysitter for a night out, could you do that the way she is right now? And if you carry on like this, the habit becomes more ingrained and it gets worse.

Yes it is hard and very upsetting to do cc. This is what I would do. The first time she cries I would go in and (without speaking to her at all) check her nappy, offer a drink, make sure that she is comfortable and that there is nothing wrong. If her nappy is fine, she is not ill or thirsty, then you know that she is not in any physical discomfort so it might make it easier for you to leave her.

Go in every 10 minutes, just to reassure her that you are still there. Say to her "go to sleep" in a stern but quiet voice (repeat this in your head like a mantra to stop you from saying anything else), tuck her in and leave. Do this every 10 mins. If she is still crying after 40 minutes, extend the time period to checking her every 20 minutes. If you do not give her any attention, and she knows exactly what you will say, she will give up.

The first night is always the worst. Ds lasted for 2.5 hours I think. I hated every minute of it! But the next morning he was his bright and chirpy self, it hadn't affected him at all. The second night she will cry for a shorter period. The third night she should hardly cry at all. Be consistent. You have to make a plan in your head. Tell your dh what you are going to do and stick with it. Take on the responsibility if you like, it's just for 2/3 nights, remember that.

Your dh will thank you afterwards when she goes to bed without fussing and stays there, just think how good you will feel then!

By the time I see you in the pub she should be sleeping through!

Oliveoil.... Wine helps . Just one glass can help you relax enough to see it through.

CliffRichard makes a very good point. After a night of sleep training, no matter how much they have howled, they still wake up their normal, bright, cheery little selves. You might feel like you have been put through the emotional mincing machine - but they literally don't give a hoot.

No, it really doesn't affect them as much as you think! In fact they probably don't even remember it in the morning! Ds tried all this again last night, at one point he got very very angry and started shouting at us too, but this makes it easier for me to leave him as I know he isn't distressed, just furious that we are not pandering to his every need at 4am. He lasted an hour and a half last night, but this morning you would think butter wouldn't melt!

I think it's wrong, wrong, wrong in kids under 2. By 2, they need to learn a bit of independance. Taht's when I'm going to do it. His teeth will all be through, he'll be talking properly so there will be no confusion with illness. I've always been against this sort of thing, but TB on Tiny Tearaways said that you can't protect your kids from all distressing events. A bit of distress, dissappointment etc etc under parental control is actually crucial to develop their emotional maturity and thus give them the tools to deal with distress in adulthood.

Still not looking forward to it though

of course you shouldn't do it if it feels wrong. You shouldn't do anything as a parent if it feels that wrong.

I agreed with it, did it and it worked for me, but it's a totally individual thing.

Try it and see if you're that fed up and think it's the only way.

'The Sleep Book For Tired Parents' helped us... you can track it down through Amazon marketplace i think.

kind of made it seem more ok to do it if it was 'sanctioned' by 'experts' and research.

would be a good tool in getting doubtful DH on-side too...

On the subject of older children being disturbed by CCing a younger child, it may not be as big a deal as you assume.

Dd slept through from about 6m (CC to get rid of the dummies which were waking her) and we delayed moving her out of our room and into ds's room because we didn't want her early waking and refusal to nap easily to damage ds's good sleeping habits. As we learned when we finally moved her, we need not have worried.

Ds is just over 2y older than dd, and has never been disturbed by her crying at sleeptimes. They have been sharing a room since she was 12m. Although she was sleeping through the night she was waking far too early (5-5.30am IIRC), and it took another 4-5m to get her napping properly. In that time she would scream blue-murder twice a day until she fell asleep, yet ds dropped off without any problems during this. When she wakes in the night it rarely disturbs him, and when she occasionally refuses to go to sleep even now (but it really is only occasionally) at nearly 3yo, he still falls asleep trhough all the screaming.

Dd shares a room with ds too. For all his screaming and ranting, she never wakes up! Wish I was like that!

I agree that CC should be left until a bit older. I have no problem with the concept but I do think it is unfair to a child when they may well be in pain with Teething or be ill in a way that is not immediatly obvious.

As I said earlier the fist time I tried CC the next morning DD had an obvious cold and the symptoms had not been apparent the night before. I find that DD's sleep is largely affected by her teething. About 50% of the time she is pretty good but the other 50% she wakes 1-4 times a night. I could be wrong but I am sure it is teething. CC fans what would you do if you were sure the reason for the wakefulness was teething even after Calpol.

oh no, now you are putting doubts in my mind again! I posted earlier down saying that what if she was teething etc.

But I think she is having me on, I can set my watch for her by 8pm at the moment.

The time thing could be because she is entering a lighter phase of sleep and the theeting pain (if that is what it is) bothers her more.

FWIW I have recently tried Ashton and Parsons powders for teething and have had 2 great nights in a row. A few mums at DS's scholl swore by them and my HV suggested them.

Oliveoil, don't lose your bottle. It does work and it doesn't damage them in any way. All they are doing is learning to go to sleep & not to wake up again for cuddles & playtime downstairs.
Sometimes, I think we are so child/baby centred we forget that the parents need time to rest too. I know that I am a much better and more effective parent when I am not exhausted from interrupted nights.

If I suspect that my child is ill, or has some 'reasonable' reason not to be sleeping, then I don't do CC. But, unless they are actually ill, or need a nappy change, I do not take them out of the bed or cot. If necessary I will stand and stroke them until they resettle, or sit in teh dark bedroom until they have resettled themselves. Taking the child out of bed or cot sneds the message that they will get what they want as long as they cry loud enough/long enough. You need to be firm and consistent, no matter what method you choose. It may take days or it may take months, and it may be once and ofr all or it may need repeating several times, but in the long run firmness and consistency is reassuring to chidlren and leads to contented childrena nd contented parents. well, as far as it can .

Agree with Bugsy. Also Olive - how many teeth has she got? When did she last get any? Once DD got all her first 16 by 12 months I knew that it was very unlikely that she would get anymore for a good while. Its been 6 months and I check her mouth every so often for signs of teething.

The other way of looking at it is that if you get the habitual crying/waking sorted then when they are genuinely ill it is more obvious. I think I may have come across on here as harsh but I had DD in bed with me all night on Saturday and DH sleeping on the settee. DH still has a bad back and I had a very unsettled night's sleep but DD was genuinely struggling with a heavy cold and cough. Although she has slept through every night since.

Very much agree with pretty candles - used to do a lot of the stroking to soothe prior to 12 months.

She has a point coming through on the top, I put some Calgel on it last night in a desparate attempt at covering every avenue - nappy/bottle/Calpol routine. But am not sure is that is why she is waking tbh.

Some days she will sleep through, not often, so I know that she can do it, just not that much.

I do think she is conning me as she stops crying when she comes downstairs.

Will see how things pan out tonight, dh has had a training day today and been moaning already so the black clouds are forming.

If United lose at football as well, god help me.

What does she do when she comes downstairs? Does she just lay on the settee and go to sleep or is she up and playing/watching TV?