Would you try controlled crying if it felt wrong wrong wrong?

[OComeOliveFaithfOil]

I am getting very peed off with dd2, nearly 16 months.

She goes down ok at 7pm, and will wake within the next hour, I settle her by lying on our bed then lift her into her cot. Then sometimes she will go through, sometimes she will wake in the night (again, brought into our bed then resettled).

However, lately she has been downstairs with us until nearly 10pm and I am getting mightily fed up. We do not have any time to ourselves and I do not get any time away from my children.

Dd1 is 3 and sleeps like a dream, and we haven't done anything different with dd2 so WHY WON'T SHE SLEEP?

I have always gone with my gut instinct on parenting issues and controlled crying just seems mean and cruel but I can't think of anything else to sort it out.

Help.

xx

So.

Tonight, when she cries in the first hour, what do I do?

Do I go up and cuddle then put her back down, or do you not pick them up, just sssshhhhhhhhh over the cot?

And how long before I go back in?

[dread emoticon]

imo it's best if the dh/dp's do this stuff , not the mothers

yes but I am the tough one in this house.

Well, when I say tough, I am the marshmellow to dh's jelly

I should have done cc with ds1 (nearly 4) much earlier, I wish I had because he still sleeps with us and I think it will be much more difficult now - although now that we can reason with him I suppose it may not be that bad.

As someone mentioned earlier, have you read The Baby Whisperer? She uses a technique called Pick up/Put down. Basically, you go in, lift them out of the cot, keep all interaction to a minimum, lights out too. All you say to them is "You're only going to sleep". When they stop crying you return them to the cot, lying them down. You can sit next to the cot if you like, but you don't talk to them. When they start crying you repeat the process. She says it can take many many times to get them off to sleep but with each successive night, it becomes less. She reckons it can be done in 3 nights.

It is bloody hard but focus on the rewards to you, your baby & your family. Good luck.

When I did it, I didn't cuddle my ds as I knew I would melt and go all weak & feeble about doing it.
I just went in and said in a very calm, quiet voice "it's night time, go to sleep now", turned around and walked back out. Checked my watch and waited for two minutes of outraged, furious crying to pass and then repeated the process again.
I didn't try to lie him back down or anything like that because I knew it would either turn into a wriggley wrestling match or else I would weaken and go for the big hug.

ok. Will try it later.

Thanks for tips.

xx

did it with ds who just cried fairly quietly in a pissed off way which was ok - bu cannot do with dd who screams in panic and distress and claws at her cot. V difficult

Norren1 if this is an advert, please could you put it in the MEDIA section if you haven't already, as I think there is a charge for advertising on Mumsnet.

hi olive oil, and every1 else, read this thread with interest as have very sim circumstances with my ds's 1and 2.
first off, it is absolutely essential that both adults are commited to doing it if you do try coz neither one of you will be strong all the time and even when you know that the crying is not actually abandonment and despair, but a resistance to change, there will be weak moments and consistency is the thing that will make the whole process happen in a few days, rather than weeks.
so, we did do cc with ds1 when he was about 5 months. felt awful at the time as we were so sleep deprived i didnt know my arse from my elbow, but for a few nights of 'cowering somewhere looking at the monitor' and 'grimacing at the TV' - so true for us too! he actually went to sleep, slept through and has been a 'good' sleeper ever since. obviously a benefit to him as his days were less tired and he was more secure about waking in the night and going back to sleep unaided. benefits to us were immeasurable!! felt like getting my personality back!
(BTW - we did the same routine for night wakings; 2 minutes, then 4 then 6 etc. he got the message pretty quickly)
so anyway, after a couple of months, when detail had faded in memory and we had all been sleeping properly for a while, i was SOOOO pleased we had done it and we clapped ourselves on the back for being 'strong' enough to do 'the right thing'.

then ds2 was born 13 months after ds1 and somehow it was a completely different story. not sure exactly how we drifted into doing things so differently, but by the time ds2 was 15 months (a few months ago) we were still getting up for him between 2 and 6 times a night to put a bottle of milk in his gob (only way he would go to sleep. only ever went to sleep on the boob before 6 months) suddenly realised how old he was and thought, what are we doing?? also expecting ds3 shortly so this was a concern too.
like someone said, part of it was that we didnt want to let ds2 crying wake and disturb ds1's sleep pattern.

so anyway, in the end, worn down by exhaustion and that delightful feeing of guilt/failure that only a parent really knows (isnt that a joy??) a couple of months ago we hired a 'night nanny' to sit through the 4 nights of cc with ds2 instead of us. he gave in shockingly quickly and was going to sleep without milk, in his own cot, and sleeping through by night 3. amazing, and such a difference to us all! best few hundred quid ive spent ever!

now he is in his own bed in the same room as ds1, they go to bed/sleep together and both sleep through (most of the time anyway, not counting teething/leaking nappies/bad dreams/any other night wakings) have to admit i do give them both milk in a bottle to go to sleep initially (bad mother. i know their teeth will fall out!) but like i say, all worth it in the not very long run

so, in a REALLY long drawn out way, im saying its ok to do it coz you need to for you. you DO need your time to yourself to recharge and unbroken sleep once in a while is essential for sanity. and what feels horrible for 3 nights (less horrible each night after the first) will benefit you ALL SO MUCH after a very short time. if the baby whisperer way feels better, do that i'd say - always do what feels right for you and the particular child and never apologise for following your own instincts... i dunno, cc worked for us in both cases so far and life is happier in our house as a result so thats just one opinion

good luck, whatever you do!

I have also tried to listen to the cry as a voice and put words to it. Often the words I hear are not don't leave me but how dare you leave me. I hear pure rage.

Also I would say try to ook at it that sometimes child need to learn things for themselves. Some things you just can't teach you have to give then time and space to learn it for themselves. I am of the opinion that sleeping is just one of those skills. I think that at 16 months your daughters sleeping will only get worse left unchecked. Why should she sleep in her bed when she can divide and control M and D.

I would suggest perhaps 1st start but getting her to go to sleep in her cot rather than your bed. Sit next to her and hold her hand or rub her back and even just keep your hand on her back initially, always staying calm but firm. Don't pick her up, when she stands lie her down immediately saying no its time for bed. I would gradually withdraw yourself from the situation as it seems appropriate. Make sure you don't bring her into your bed in the middle of night to start and until the routine in settled. Finally whomever you choose to do this you or DH make sure their not going to crack. your make things worse.

I hope you can use some of my advice. I done this for my children and for a few friends children and its worked for us. I hope works, if you use it, for you.

Have you decided to give it a go then? We had a problem with DD (18 months) recently. I think the clincher that made us sort it was that DS had just started Reception and was very tired and she was disturbing his sleep and we felt that just wasn't on. Anyway last night she went down at 7.25 (cried/moaned for maybe 3 minutes) and I had to wake her up at 7.30 this morning.

Although in DD's case that is an exceptional night. She was definitely manipulating us though. Had us going to say "shh" for about an hour before she would drop off or sitting in the chair in her room and she would be watching us rather than settling. Then we just left her and she was asleep in less time than when we went to her the first night and its down to 3 minutes now.

Well last night was a complete and utter failure.

Put her down at 7pm, woke up at 8pm. Left her for 10 mins then went up. She had done a poo so I felt REALLY bad at having left her. Changed her and put her in her cot, screamed and screamed, so I picked her up. Repeated for about 30 mins then dh came up moaning saying she was too upset, so she was brought down.

This went on till 10pm when I managed to put her in her cot and after a few moans she went off.

She was VERY VERY angry I think, rather than upset (have been trying to listen to her cries more) and I think I need to give dh a kick up the backside and let me get on with it.

He was in a complete mood of doom and gloom all night and we were not speaking this morning.

FANTASTIC FAMILY LIFE EH?????!

Oh Olive I think most of us have been there with our DHs at some point. I think bringing her down is the worst bit personally. If it was me I would just sit and cuddle her in a dark room. Or get DH to do it.....

Does she normally do a poo after she goes to bed? Anyway just so you don't feel so bad - DD almost always poos on waking up in a morning. Sometimes though she will cry/winge at 6-6.30 for a few minutes (not distressed crying at all) and I leave her then she drops back off for half-1 hour and when I get her up I think she has done the poo, then gone back to sleep. But if I got up and changed her at 6 there's no way she'd settle again so I ignore her.

Haven't read the whole thread, but no, I think you have to believe in CC for it to work. If you go in halfhearted, you'll crack and it won't.

Hey Oliveoil, I'm having problems too, my thread is titled "Controlled Crying does work - for me anyway", I've listed the times dh has woken, how long for and what we did. Hope it helps.

will have a look

Hello all, I have two boys and have done cc on both. The first one I did at 10 months as my husband took that long to convince that it was ok! The first night I went in stroked his head and quietly said 'it's sleep time' every 10 minutes for over 2 hours. Every time I left the room, he would cry in a sort of shouting cry. Towards the end he would stop for a minute then start again. It was hard to go through but I was determind to see it through. The second night it took about 45 minutes, and the third night about 10 minutes then that was it he was through. I have heard it can take up to 2 weeks to crack, but normally 3 - 4 nights is normal. My second boy we started at 3 months old, and it worked after one night! We did make sure that he had no more than 3 hours sleep in the day though and would not let him sleep after 5pm. Both my boys sleep from 7pm till 7am and now only cry when there is something wrong.
My health visitor said that it is more cruel to not get them into a good sleep pattern as they may have sleep problems later on in life, and in any case, if they are tired all the time it spoils their day (and ours!)
I think though that all parents should use their own instinct and do what's right for their families life.

Can you send your DH out for the evening? I found that we got each other worked up when we were trying to do it together. So, DD got all out of routine after a bug, then mean mummy swiped her dummies too (mean fairies I mean, definately the fairies took them and not mummy!!!).

I knew that my resolve crumples when DH is home (no idea why as he is normally the harder one out of the two of us!!!), so he went to the pub for the evening, and I tackled it alone.

It was sooo much easier, and much more successful because by the next night, I was confident.

Oh, and with the poo... when we first started trying with DD (we've done this a lot... illness throws her all out of sync again), she was about the same age as yours, and normally pooed in the first 10 mins - seemed to be the temper and pressure of crying set it off .

Well done calidou. I think if you start something like cc you have to see it through so that there is a point to their crying in that they do learn to self-settle, which is a brilliant skill to have.

Oliveoil, don't feel guilty about the poo. Imagine if she had done it half way through a car journey - a short time with a poo in their nappy isn't that awful and certainly not anything to feel guilty about.
I would say you have to be absolutely, completely and utterly to do sleep training - otherwise it is not going to work and you will end up confusing your child/baby.
You definitely have to get DH on board or send him out. If he undermines you, what chance does your DD have of getting a clear message about bedtime.
I have done this over the years with both my two when they have got into bad habits and the first time was definitely the worst - for me that is!

Calidou - read yours as you stroking DH's hair every 10 mins to let him know CC was ok!!!