Is there anything we can try other than controlled crying?

[homemama]

DS is 13mths. He has never slept through although he went through a period of only waking once or twice between 6 and 9mths. Usually he wakes 6 or 7 times a night and DH and I are shattered!

We have a good bedtime routine of calm bath followed by bottle in the dark. He needs us to be touching him for him to go to sleep. He used to go down awake and nod off but at 9mths he has a terrible 5wk cold and that stopped. He goes down at 7pm, wakes every hour of hour and a half til 6.30 when he decided it's morning.

We've tried co-sleeping, mattress on floor with us, mattress on floor close to us. Everything we can think of. When he wakes his cry is heartbreaking. Often, even when we go in to settle him, he clings onto us and still cries. He wakes and cries regularly even when snuggled up to us in our bed.

He basically dropped the night feed himself at around 7mths so he isn't feeding in the night.

He's in a grobag because he is very restless and kicks covers off. Is it's very cold I put a blanket over him too.

We paid to go to a sleep clinic who said there was little they could advise as we had done everything right (routine and putting down awake etc) They just said he'd sleep through eventually.

The HV just keeps saying I need to let him cry it out. My previous HV said I'd caused the problem by not letting him cry it out at 11wks (when he reached 11lbs)

Just can't bare to do it no matter how bad it is. But we're desperate to at least help him get a good night's sleep.

Sorry this is long. Thanks for reading. Any advice gratefully recieved.

No advice really - but I totally sympathise!

How does he sleep in the day?

Have you read the "No cry sleep solution" book. It does have a couple of suggestions in there.
So it may give you something that you are confortable with?

From my experience I would say to start by teaching him to go to sleep on his own. it may involve some crying but is easier to bare and probably easier on him... Perhaps start by sitting in the room and singing for him so he knows you are there, but you are not touching him? and then slowly starts to sing from further away?
I think the general thoughts here is that if he doesn't know how to fall asleep on his own, then everytime he wakes at night he will need you to put him back to sleep. Thus, using the first going to sleep time, when he is most tired and you are the freshest, would be the best time to start teaching him how to sleep on his own. Hopefully then, when he wakes up in the middle of the night he can go back to sleep on his own.

Good luck! it is very though!

Thanks, he generally has two naps in the day of about 1hour each. Although occas. he'll skip the morning nap.

He goes off in about 2mins but again he needs to be touching us.

It just seems to be getting worse. If it's just that he needs us, then we're both happy to co-sleep but he still constantly wakes and cries.

I will get that book, thanks.

A bit of a crazy suggestion but, could he be having reflux?

I was just trying to think about something that could make him unconfortable laying down ?! and therefore cuddles wouldn't help...

Does he have a special soft toy or a blanket/cuddly? What I have done, admittedly when mine were younger, is to give them a t-shirt that I had been wearing to hold in bed. It seemed to give them a bit of comfort at least.

Someone else has suggested reflux to me. Isn't he a bit old fot it? Now I'm wondering. 3 weeks ago when I went in we both fell asleep on the feeding chair. He was on my chest/shoulder. I woke up 4.5hours later because I was cold. He was still asleep. Maybe because he was upright? Wouldn't he be sick with reflux? He's never sick and he eats like a horse in the day.

What could I give him in his bottle instead? Is he too young for that dream rice soya milk stuff?

Mercy, he has one of my tshirts early on when I was B/F. He never seemed that interested. Thanks for your ideas anyway. TBH, just talking about it helps. MIL is constantly going on about how he should be sleeping through by now.

If it is reflux, you could try baby gaviscon. I think your GP would give you a prescription, but I think you can also get over the counter.

You could also try to raise his cot mattress one one side (with a blanket or something underneath) to see if it helps?!

Good thought AlleLuah.

I don't think everyone who has reflux is necessarily sick. My friend has this from time to time and she gets an unpleasant burning sensation at the back of her throat - and she's in her 30's, so maybe not everyone grows out of it!

homemama, don't have any advice but just wanted to say that we're going through just the same thing atm (10mo ds).
could it be teeth? am sure that ds is teething really badly just now.
i've recently bought 'the baby whisperer solves all your problems',but am too tired to read it atm! a friend is lending me the no-cry sleep book too, so i'm hoping for more ideas from that.
it's awful huh?! i SO want to get it sorted, & without CC if poss...tho i dunno if i can put up with lack of sleep indefinitely!

Thanks everyone. I'll try the gaviscon. We've tried raising the cot on one side but he's such a restless sleeper that he moves all over the cot all night. He often wakes crashing into the bottom. When on a mattress on the floor (double) he often ends up off the end.

We're TTC #2 and the lack of sleep or opportunity isn't helping.

Wish I could give some good advice too, homemama, but hope it works out for you.

Just wanted to say I'm really surprised that your old HV advised 'crying it out' at 11 weeks. Every source I've read or consulted so far has advised against controlled crying before 6 months - perhaps she was stuck in the 1960s, lol. So DON'T blame yourself for not doing that, you have done all the right things.

I did post the dinosaur patented sleep method on this thread .

Thanks Dino, but he doesn't need feeding in the night. He will go to sleep on his own with the patting already. He'll go off as long he can feel us touching/patting him until he goes off.

It's not so much the 'getting off' that's the problem. It's the fact that he constantly wakes and very often can't be comforted or for up to an hour.

Sorry Dino if that sounds ungrateful, wasn't meant that way

Please keep ideas coming. I'm worried that in a sleep deprived haze I'll resort to C.C!

If you want to do it very gently, why not try moving on from touching/patting?

I think the source of this is Dr Tanya Byron (she of the House of Tiny Tearaways).

Gently lie him down in the cot. If he gets up again, as he will, lie him down again. Repeat ad nauseam until he falls asleep. She does cheerily say it may take 100 goes the first time . Keep using the method and it should get easier. In between, stand near cot, but don't make eye contact or talk to him.

As he gets more used to it he should start to go to sleep more quickly.

I'm sure I haven't remembered this quite right, but you could try googling her name and see if anything comes up.

Sorry not to be more help.

I think if he is having 2 1hr naps in the day that this is too much, I would suggest halving this.

The routine is good. But I think that your ds has now got himself into a routine of regularly waking. The fact that he slept for so long whilst snuggled to you is no surprise, all babies would much prefer to be asleep snuggled in this way!

I'm afraid I would try CC. It IS hard, but after 2 - 3 days it works, so it is only hard for a short time. The first night you try it is the worst. He may grow out of this, but I've read of parents having trouble with 4 year olds sleeping, so you could have a while to go yet! Get him checked over by the GP, if there is nothing wrong then I really would go for the CC.

Isn't 2 hours daytime sleep average for a 13 month old?

Not if he's waking up that often in the night it isn't it! Every child is different, 2 hours sleep is ok for the average child, but since when is any child average?

Agree, every child is different but I'm not sure too much daytime sleep is the issue here. His nighttime waking is rather excessive but equally not that unusual (As I know with my 2 terrible sleepers )

I don't think he's getting too much sleep in the day because he's really ready for bed by 7pm. Also if he doesn't have those naps his sleep is even worse (if you can believe that)

Just spoken to the pharmacist who has sold me some infant gaviscon. She said to mix it with his evening bottle and see how it goes. I'm not expecting miracles but it will be interesting to see if he can at least be comforted when he wakes crying. Although if so, that means he's been in pain all this time and I haven't realised.

Homemama - I do believe you re the naps! I really believe the more they sleep, the more they sleep - if that makes any sense.

Good luck for tonight, and please don't feel guilty. We can all only do the best we can.

Thank you so much for your support on this thread today Mercy and others. It has really helped just sharing it and feeling like I'm not alone.

I'll post tomorrow and let you know how we got on with the gaviscon.

homemama, hope the gaviscon helps. My DD went undiagnosed for 4 months and was on it for nearly 6 months. It made such a difference. It could be what my DD had- 'silent reflux' where she wasn't sick but neat acid was travelling up and down her throat- very painful and distressing for everyone. We raised the head end of her cot up but only with a phone book under each leg- not enough that she could slide down.
I really hope you get a good nights sleep- my DD cried 8 hours every day for 3 months but she slept at night as she was shattered!I do sympathise. Good Luck xx

Ok, it wasn't a miracle cure but it did make a big difference.

We mixed it in with his bottle at 7pm and the first time he woke was at 10.30 as we were going to bed. Usually he'd have woken about 3 times by then. I went in and he was tangled up in his grobag (the bottom bit was under him so his feet were squashed) I untangled him and he went straight back off!

Then he woke at 1am, made a little cry and said Mama,Mama (This is unusual cause it's always Dad.) I went in and lay beside him on the mattress and he cuddled me and went straight back to sleep. That was him til he heard DH getting ready for work at 6.30!

So, just two wakes all night and both times he went straight back off. I'm amazed! I don't want to get too excited in case this was a one off fluke but it was great.

I know still waking twice in the night isn't ideal and needing me the second time to fall back asleep but it's a huge difference to before.

The awful thing is that I now feel heartbroken that my baby was in pain and I did nothing.
OMG, how awful would C.C have been for him if he was in pain and we ignored him thinking he just needed to go to sleep.

I def. think if this is the new routine we can cope with a couple of wakings a night until he's older.

Fingers crossed tonight is the same or better!
Thanks everyone!