Sleep Nightmares Part III: At 3am No-One Can Hear You Scream

[CountBapula]

I've been moaning about documenting my 8 mo DS's 'challenging' sleep patterns on MN since he was three weeks old. He's still waking every 2-3 hours at least and the other thread's full, so here's a shiny new one for all you parents of hardcore sleep refusenik babies.

Who's with me?

Oh and any tips on weaning him off the boob during the night would be great, thing is I think he is actually quite hungry at around 2am. At what age did you, will you cut out the night feeds?

Well, we had a mad night last night. DS slept from 7:50pm until 1:30am! That is his longest stretch of sleep this year, and the first time since Christmas that he's slept past midnight from bedtime!

Of course I didn't really sleep in that time because I kept wondering why he hadn't woken up

Then I gave him a 10-min feed and settled him in the cot from awake, during which he didn't cry . He went to sleep at about 2:15 and was up a fair amount after that, but DH got up each time and settled him just by putting a hand on his tummy and shushing. Eventually DH got up again and said DS had woken after only 20 mins so I figured he was hungry and looked at the clock. It was 6am!!!

I gave DS a full feed and he dozed off on the boob, so I put him in bed next to me and he slept until 7:20!

He is such a random little chap

Now trying to work out what did it. Is it because he had a huge plate of chicken and sweet potato for dinner? Only had two naps rather than three? Played in the garden with DH at 6:30pm (idea from thread on early waking)? Went to sleep in the cot? Who the hell knows?!

Shuffle will post later on night feeds - got to go out shortly and might turn into a bit of an essay ... :)

Hi, wondering if I can join you? Its a bit of a relief to read all these posts..

DD is 6 1/2 months. Until 6 weeks she self settled and slept quite well (oh how I wished I'd appreciated it then) in a 3 sided crib attached to our bed. Xmas day last year was the last time that happened. After a very very bad week, she started sleeping with us which was fine (although with hv/nct lot seems to be a guilty secret) until she needed to go to bed in the early evening... Then the dilemma of just going to bed at 7pm with her or the cot battle. The cot battle won - but we are still doing said battle (started in march which when I think about it now isn't that long ago but feels like years). A good night is down at 7-ish, up after half an hour, re-settle and then down for 2 hours and then into bed with me, three feeds during the night and up at 7. Bad nights vary but inevitably involve 10 or more awakenings and getting up at 5.

DD is also a very bad napper - I do the walking thing too (pram or sling, sometimes driving in the car if I really can't walk any more) but even that doesn't always work. 30 mins is a usual nap time and she has maybe three a day, sometimes 4. I am so desperate not to be walking though so I can have a bit of a break. DH works away during the week so I have to dig into my patience reserves (not so plentiful it turns out).

Things we have tried (and failed with) include:

• Walking her at set times of day to try to get her used to napping at certain times so I could move her to the cot eventually (she played along with this for a couple of weeks and then went all random again)
• sheets that I have slept on in her cot (absolutely no difference)
• bottle of formula before bed (absolutely no difference)
• sleeping bags/pekemoe/no covers at all (swaddling is a no no) - her preference seems to depend on the night
• craniosacral therapy - spent a lot of cash, think things are actually worse now
• homeopathic sleep remedies (I take and breastfeed)
• sling in the house for some naps (she likes to sleep in it when I'm out walking but she's getting heavy, in the house I can sometimes sit down once she's gone to sleep)
• napping with me in my bed (and I've tried the ncss re-settling when she wakes to try to encourage longer naps - it worked once..)
• a hammock for naps/night-time - anything!
• food - baby rice seemed to be helping (started at 24 weeks) but after 10 days she developed an intolerance and vomited quite severely. Food is now restricted to vegetable finger foods and we are going v v slowly.

Sorry, this is very long. I swing between being so tired I can barely move and being filled with resolve to help her sleep better. I often try too much at once so I have no idea what helps and what doesn't. I think I should stop doing anything other than focusing on her all day for a while to try to understand her better but I go a bit crazy when I do that because no DH coming home in the evening means there can be whole days without adult conversation.

On the plus side, she is very very cheery when awake - even at 5am. But I am not appreciating her because I am so tired.

Thanks for letting me vent, I'm glad I found you guys.

Hi everyone

We are having some great success! Our sleep consultant kept telling me to night wean completely and I was a bit wibbly about it but decided last week it was time. He is only 21 weeks but I knew he was ready. Firstly, feeding did not change his behaviour at night at all - it wasn't like he'd feed then be satisfied for a few hours - he woke every hour on the dot. Second, he wasn't hungry for a couple of hours after waking.

So I went to not feeding before one, to not before three. He didn't mind at all, still settled easily, no distressed crying. So for he last two nights I've slept on the sofa and DH has done all the settling in case DS could smell milk. So I've had seven lovely hours sleep for two nights!

And last night DS self settled at seven then had a three hour and a four hour chunk! Amazing. Four till five still very unsettled and woke and six and seven. But we are so chugged - a week ago it was every hour! Tonight I'm back on shift so I hope that doesn't ruin it...

Kittburgh, one thing I have learnt is that what is of prime importance is to stick to doing the same things consistently over and over again. Perhaps you are changing too much?

Count, what utterly wonderful news! I'm so pleased for you :)

Chuffed not chugged

Ohh that sounds really positive bigkids

kitty I second that about consitency - DS's sleep really improved once he went into his own room and that was because we started doing the same things for every waking. Before I was dealing with most of them and what I did depended on how tired I was. But now that I'm back at work we realised it was fairer to share them, and so we actually had the strength of mind to keep at one strategy.

any tips on sticking to a strategy when there's just one of you? I am on my own monday to friday. I would very much like to get DD sleeping all night in her cot but the honest truth is that when there is no one else to take over, I get to the point where I have to take her into bed with me or else neither of us get any sleep (in her cot, although she has had periods of sleeping for two hours at a time, mostly its 30 minutes followed by another 30-45 minutes of re-settling her) and I can't handle the next day/night. I was following ncss on that - she suggests giving up at a certain point in the night to get some sleep.

no tips for that I'm afraid Kitty, I would do what you do!

Hi all, please can I join you too?
We had a horrible night last night, DD went down early about 7pm ish, slept fine until DH got over-enthusiastic with the DIY and started drilling through brickwork at 10pm...
DD is 21 months, and usually sleeps through the night. Unfortunately she didn't settle well at all after the drilling...
To add to that our 2 week old baby boy just fed from 11pm til 3, or was it 4am? seriously, every time I tried to move him back to his cot he woke up before his head touched the mattress. And was rooting around for more food. This breastfeeding business is harder work than I remembered!

It's in the wee small hours that all your doubts and guilt come flooding back... and emotionally and hormonally I'm somewhat unbalanced anyway at the moment!

DS now calmly in his pram, sleeping between 3 hr feeds. Why can't he do this at night?!

sorry for rant

mmsparkle I think you've done really well to get your 2 week old to sleep in his pram! My 13 week old ds still won't really nap in the house anywhere but my arms - planning to try and tackle this next week by putting him in his pram top when he is asleep [sceptical]

When ds was two weeks old I was very emotionally and hormonally unbalanced - still am to some extent when the tiredness kicks in!

Hope you have a better night tonight!

mmsparkle, I have no answers just sending you positive thoughts! When DS2 was 2 weeks old, he was awake from 10pm until 4am nearly every night for a week, luckily DH was out of work at the time so it eased the burden. I seriously though my boobs were just going to fall off! Just remember this stage doesn't last forever and you WILL look back on that rooting around in the wee hours as cute!

DS2 now in bed, self settled, DS1 refusing to go yet and watching The Simpsons

I have sent DH to his mums again as he and DS1 were there last night and we had a fab night, DS2 only waking once for calpol and once for a feed. I am convinced its Dh's snoring that wakes him and then he starts to babble, sometimes for 2 hours at a time. We need some teeny tiny baby earplugs

Well here's hoping to a good night as we have a busy day tomorrow and I must stop eating crap just to keep me going

thought

Evening all. I too am close to screaming at 3 am. DD is 8 months and has never slept very well. Average nightly wakings range from 3-8! Only one 5+ hours sleep for me in over a year as I too had pregnancy insomnia and constant sickness. DD was EBF until weaning but this has made no impact on get sleep. I only feed her once during the night now but it was 4+ upto last month. Have tried NCSS religiously for 2 months and again no success. Today I have hit a wall and just feel so low that I truly feel like giving up on everything. It's only that cute smile that has kept me going today. I just want a little bit of sleep, now and again. DD is asleep now and I am just on edge waiting for the games to begin. At least I have mn to keep my spirits up. (takes deep breath and relax). There goes the monitor.......

Oh Kitty you poor thing. as Cosmosis says, in your position I would do what you are doing. I'm only holding it together by DH and I splitting shifts, five hours on the sofa each every night.

Has your DH got any annual leave coming up you could use to have a crack at the sleeping? Is your mum around? Could you afford a night nanny, for a few nights only, at a push?

Hi newbies. So sorry to welcome you here! Sometimes when I'm up at four am I think of you all around the country, flashing on a map :) and it keeps me going that I'm not alone

Thanks bigkids, it does make a difference knowing that people understand. DH and I have talked about him taking annual leave to tackle the sleeping but it seems like such a rubbish way for him to spend his annual leave and sometimes, when we're having a bad night and he's here, its all the more frustrating because we would like to spend some time together.

However, reading this back I can see that part of the problem is me making excuses not to tackle it! Don't think I could bear for us to spend a couple of weeks working on it and not actually make any progress.. If only a sleep fairy would come and just wave her wand.

Wanting a flashing map on my kitchen wall now!

Welcome newbies - sorry there seems to be so many people in the same position. Kitty - I am still co-sleeping to get through this and I have my DH at home with me. As I was BFing at a lot of DS's wakings I've just been doing everything and DH is in the spare room - co-sleeping is the only way to deal with it.
We're still at my brother's and while the first few nights I managed to not feed DS before at least 1am last night was awful. He just kept on waking up screaming and just would not settle without a feed. Here's hoping tonight goes ok. We're going to have to start a proper plan when we get home.

Urgh
Leaky nappy at 11pm
Up every two hours after that
Up and playing for 1.5 hours from 4:30am
Three night feeds
Urgh

Count that's awful!! Our night wasn't good either. Took an hour to settle from 8.00pm then through the night woke up about 8 times for his dummy - cries very loudly - dummy goes in - spits it out dummy goes in falls back asleep! Wish there was an invention to keep the dummy in their mouths!!!

I'm going to join you ladies. At 4m we went from 6hrs then a feed then 3hrs then 3 hrs to now.... awake every hour and no naps longer than 30mins. I started co sleeping just to get her to sleep but I hate it. Kitty I'm in the boat re DH being away.

I need to stop feeding to sleep mainly and just get on with it. I'm torn between being too tired to fix it and being tired because I've still not fixed it.

Welcome Comrade :)

"I'm torn between being too tired to fix it and being tired because I've still not fixed it."

That is such a great way of putting it! Totally with you on that one.

"I'm torn between being too tired to fix it and being tired because I've still not fixed it."

That is the best way to describe it, I agree!

We had an a pretty good night last night, DS2 went from 7ish to 11.30, had some calpol as he was gnawing on his hand, I suspected teething pains rather than hunger, then slept til 2am, settled by hand on his tummy (whoever suggested that on here is a feckin genius) then went until 4.30am before being fed. I then kept him in with me and he woke at 7am. I am going to try and go until 5am tonight before feeding as I'm sure he just doesn't need the night feeds anymore and he can self settle as he has found his thumb, so wish me luck!!

Ugh. It is two steps forward one back here. Just as he learns to self settle and proves he can sleep in bigger chunks, we gave a night like last night - up every hour, ten minutes to settle each time, and awake every ten minutes between two and four. It was horrible. I ended up bringing him into our bed at half four, breaking the rules, but at least that was the only one I broke!

Ugh ugh ugh

Ugh, bigkids!

Ours was okay. DS settled with only minor protest at 7:50. Woke at 11:05 with leaky nappy again (FFS!). Seven-minute feed, then 45 mins of screaming as DH settled him in cot :(

Then another 3hr 15 stretch. When he woke, I settled him by patting and making snoring noises (weird, but works sometimes when shushing seems to irritate him). Awake again 45 mins later and twice more in quick succession, so fed at 5:20. Fell asleep on boob and dozed in bed with us until 7:50!

We're basically loosely following the plan we did with Andrea, but it seems to be working better this time and we're seeing longer stretches, though it is all still a bit haphazard.

Well teething = sleeping hell. An hour and twenty mins of screaming before he went to sleep, then awake after 40 mins but settled with some shhhing and chest patting, then back up at midnight and wouldn?t settle, so ended up in bed with us, and still wouldn?t settle very well. Still both bottom ones are through now so am hoping it will get better again. Even magic calpol wasn?t really helping last night. Am off out in my lunch hour to get some ahstons & parsons powders as a friend recommended them to me. Just feel so sorry for the poor lad, all day he is really trying to be happy but obviously sore, but just can?t cope at night ? I guess things being worse at night is true for everyone!

Oh no Cosmosis - poor little chap! Have read on here that Calprofen is good for teething because the effect lasts longer,
and you can alternate it with Calpol I think. Might be worth a try.