Sleep Nightmares Part III: At 3am No-One Can Hear You Scream

[CountBapula]

I've been moaning about documenting my 8 mo DS's 'challenging' sleep patterns on MN since he was three weeks old. He's still waking every 2-3 hours at least and the other thread's full, so here's a shiny new one for all you parents of hardcore sleep refusenik babies.

Who's with me?

Is that where you put your hand on their chest before they usually stir? Someone on here did that but I can?t remember who! Might have been Narmada when she was still on here?

I've done it at night, but it's only worked sporadically with naps, though haven't tried it for a while. Know what you mean though - DS is still usually having 3 naps a day at 8.5 months

Hope you're OK bigkids, sorry you've been in hospital but glad you got some sleep at least.

Welcome grumpybum (now there's something you don't type every day).

Great stuff on the naps Mama - I keep meaning to tackle that as we still rock DS to sleep, but it doesn't take long and he sleeps okay so not really got the motivation. Will have to sort it soon though because I can't expect the CM to rock him to sleep three times a day!

Sounding good judy, have you started the plan yet?

Cosmosis I hope you get some lovely sleep on Wednesday. I'm still rubbish at sleeping myself. DS did 7 hours followed by 3 hours last night and I couldn't bloody sleep for worrying! Very silly.

DS is all over the place as usual. Great night last night, but night before was 8-11, woke at 11, 12, 1, 4, 6 and 7:30 he's so random it's almost endearing ... generally speaking he's only having one night feed though, which is something.

Snarfle the self settling sounds great :)

count my cm rocks him to sleep when he needs it :)

I can extend DS's morning nap if I catch him as soon as he starts to stir and stick my finger in his mouth (might not be for everyone though...) We're probably going to start our sleep plan tonight. The consultant is adamant that DS should have his long nap at lunchtime and doesn't seem to understand that is easier said than done (great post on the gp's thread count).
DS was awake again last night from 3am to 5am. Got DH to take over again as my cold has really wiped me out. DH told me incredulously that DS woke 45 mins later smiling and rolling around and I thought, welcome to my world. I do feel a bit guilty about getting him up when he has to work but I just can't cope at the moment. He's going to have to help in the night when we start the plan though. The upside of it all though is that DH seems to manage to settle DS whereas I would have to feed him. He didn't have a milk feed from 1.50am until 8am (DH gave him breakfast rather than waking me). We're night weaning by default!
Enjoy your night away cos - sounds great!

Meant the grandparents thread which I don't think does translate into gp's - apologies for the rogue apostrophe!

Thanks judy, it was a bit of a rant but I felt so bad for the OP. There were some quite unhelpful comments on there, saying she sounded obsessed and was being PFB etc I know it's hard for people to understand if they haven't had babies like ours but a bit of empathy wouldn't go amiss!

oh i saw that threead coutn and yes lots of unhelpful comments made the poor mum feel like she was doing it all wrong :( she wasnt doing anythign wrong she just has a baby that doesnt like to sleep :( we hsould direct her to this thread!

well we had two good nights with a 5 hr chunk from 11:30-5 so actually 5 and a half hours and then the last two nights have been SHIT, havent even had an hour in one go and she has been awake from 3:30-5:30 just awake and happy to lie in bed next to me or in my arm, but ffs just SLEEP child! typically dp is now at work until tomorrow evening so i am shattered and no chance of a break.

i made myself ge tup and showered and out the house tho, to the park and the library for ds4's benefit and aslo so that i felt slightly human... she had a good nap of over two hours earlier, i had to wake her for her lunchtime feed int he end, otherwise i wouldnt fit in her next feed at 6pm which would push back her dream feed....

we are now weaning, well two ice cubes of fruit or veg at lunch, she isnt too interested tbh, but likes chomping on finger foods as well, i think it will be a slow process...

oh she is getting better at putting her dummy in during the day, ie when in the pushchair have it on a little clip and she plays with it but is also managing to put it in, so as that improves maybe she will thne learn to do it at night...but i would have to stop swaddling her...

Yes sorry I meant intervening as soon as they stir - she says then you can tip them into the next sleep cycle, and after a week they do it themselves. I'm having no luck! We have three 45 min sleeps and I'm getting worried about nursery in two weeks!

bigkids, my elder three NEVER had naps longer than 45mins ever. infact my eldest just didnt have daytime naps other than catnaps!

ds4 did but of his own accord and dd now has a 2hrish nap in the mornings and then a short nap between 4-6, normally for 30-45mins sometimes longer, but not often.

i have tried resettling her but it doesnt work.

the nursery will have their own techniques, infact when ds1 was a baby the ONLY place he did nap was nursery, they had those big old silvercross prams and would put him in one of those and rock him to sleep! i was amazed. babies often suprise us and do things they wouldnt do for us when in daycare etc.

ds1 and I have both been sick with some horrible virus. so I've been working hard to put the babies back in cots and not cosleep so that I can go to ds1 in the night. turns out dt2 who I though was my bad sleeper reliably goes 2.5 hours or more unless woken by dt1 (my "good sleeper") who last night went 7.30-10, 12.30, 1.15, 1.30, 1.45 (then awake for an hour in ds1's room) then coslept from 3. while dt2 woke at 10, 12.30, 3, then coslept. I feel bloody awful, but at least I've discovered that they can do 2.5 hours at a time.

bigkids sometimes the dts nap for 1 hour or longer, sometimes for 30 minutes, but they still always need 3 naps per day. not saying you shouldn't try and extend naps if you choose, but that longer naps do not necessarily mean they can go longer between naps, if that makes sense.

4mad sorry things have gone pear shaped. must be harder knowing a 5 hours stretch is possible.

bigkids have just been waffling explaining on another thread about the book by the eminent paediatrician Marc Weissbluth who says that some babies need 3 naps up to the age of 9 months, so don't worry if your DS still needs 3 - it seems that it's perfectly normal albeit a PITA

Hiya, YAY a thread for those not sleeping. I offered a limb the other day for 5 minutes sleep and the sad thing is................... I was actually very serious lol. Mine were sleeping and now they're not!!! Simple as that, kids/babies/parents do not sleep. Oh wait, the kids do in the car so that just leaves us parents talking doolally through lack of sleep. Any ideas/tips/suggestions..................... ANYTHING

Hello miss. Not much advice from me I'm afraid but lots of sympathy. I think the main thing sadly is wait until they grow out of it.
Nevertheless, we're starting the sleep plan tonight. It's more about settling DS for me though hopefully longer stretches will be a side effect. Weirdly I rocked DS in my arms to sleep which I haven't done for ages. Was meant to rock and let him suck my finger but he was happier with just the rocking and was a bit awkward to do both. Feels like backward step tbh but we'll see. Also my arms are killing me! Next challenge is no co-sleeping - feeling s bit sad about that. Already plotting some illegal naps though know I shouldn't (hope DH isn't still looking at this thread). Wishing you all good nights.

Judys - good luck starting the sleep plan tonight.
We had another twisty night last night and ds unable to self settle tonight ..let's see how tonight goes...[hopeful]

Thanks for all the napping sympathy! Actually three naps is very civilised - morning nap in cot while I have a shower and get dressed and two more in the pram while we're out and about. But I do worry that he wakes so frequently at night because he's overtired.

We seem to have a new pattern of sleeping half seven to midnight ish then up every hour and a half for his dummy after that. Not sure if we get rid if the dummy he will wake and cry or not wake - scary. Might try this weekend.

Hope the first night of the plan went well, Judy.

Apologies in advance to anyone who had a shit night, but ... 8pm to 4am - GET IN!!! Up again randomly at 5:30 but fed back to sleep and up for the day at 7:15. That's two nights in a row he's done a long stretch from bedtime

YAY count! thats fab

we had a better night as well, just up once i think between 11:30-4:30 it may have been twice actually but just a stick the dummy in type waking that i can deal with in seconds.

am wondering if she is ready to cut down to four milk feeds a day, having 5 at mo but the morning one at 9:30-10 she has been faffinf about wiht, she has learnt to gurgle and thinks its most amusing to gurlge the milk so taking ages to drink it, i keep taking it away and then giving it back and she sucks for a bit and then the gurglign or else she just chews on the teat.

she is currenlty only havnig lunch but may start giving her some bfast and if i make it up with say 2oz of milk i may then just try offering her 4oz in the morning feed? who knows her milk intake has always been a bit iffy and it doesnt seem to affect her sleep or weight gain oh well.

anyone else watch that prog on channel 3 last nighta bout the special care babies? certainly made me hugely grateful for my healthy ones and less bothered about the lack of sleep i am getting. poor little baby charlie :(

Count and 4mad - that's excellent news on the sleep. Really pleased for you both and hope it continues!!!!

No advice on the weaning as Will is only 4 months so hope to start weaning soon. Have been advised not to start until 6 months - is this what youy all did?

I started at 19 weeks and I'm glad I did - my DS is ravenous and on five 8oz bottles and three meals now already (he's 24 weeks now)

Well that great nights sleep that happened last week? Yep, not seen that since.

Was going great guns about not feeding to sleep last week and then suddenly I realised I had fallen back into the old habit. I've changed the routine so that now she doesn't go into her sleep suit until just before her sleep so she can't at all feed to sleep. Poor thing, it's my fault she's so confused about sleeping. Back to not sleeping to sleep again today and it's gone well.

More trips to the dr as DD has had blood in her poo on and off for almost 2 months now. We may have to go to Hong Kong to figure out what's causing it by them putting a camera up her bottom but all likely causes she will grow out of anyway so we just need to wait and see. It means that even though she has largely grown out of the reflux she still wakes up screaming because of it. Hugely worrying regardless. I wish that she hadn't had any of these health things, I'm sure she would have slept much, much better if she hadn't.

BigKids & 4mad. Also no naps longer than 45 minutes here.

Well done Count! Hopefully by the time this thread is full you'll have graduated :o

4mad love the idea of a gurgling baby!

Good luck Judy. I've already emailed milpond but won't have a consultation until we're back from holidays next month so I'm really interested in how it will go for you!

not sleeping to sleep??? feeding to sleep

I've been told not to wean until 6 months and also no ff until then too to rule out any other causes of the bleeding. Wish I could, DD is gagging to now (she's 2 weeks off 6 months).

didnt start weaning till 6mths with dd, she was 6mths on the 5th june. making no difference to sleep!

comrade what a worry about the blood in the poo, if it helps my ds1 did that a bit but when he started on solids, it didnt last long and there were no ill effects.

where are you if you may have to travel to hong kong for the camera thing?

In good old Beijing. In a months time I'll have lived here for 7 years.

Good to know that your DS1 did that too. DD is such a happy baby and skipping up the percentiles so no one is worrying as such but it's still a worry IYSWIM.

I'm sorry to hear about your dd's poo Comrade - if she's happy and putting on weight hopefully it's nothing to worry about but I know anything out of the ordinary is worrying with a little one.
Thanks for the weaning info - i'm joining a class which hopefully is starting soon.
I hate to say it but my ds's sleep seems to be heading towards the dreaded 4 month regression. His naps are suffering now - taking about 20 mins to stop the overtired cyring and get him to sleep. I feel so sorry for him when he's crying through tiredness I'm trying to get him to nap for 5 hours today (read that this is what 4 month olds need) to see if lots of naps make him sleep better tonight. This means me staying in today watching v plus films holding him as he will normally always nap when being held. I know this isn't sustainable but I want to see if it makes any difference