The 'newborn - sleep nightmare' continuation thread, Cosmosis, count, emo etc. Still a sleep nightmare?

[Bumperlicious]

Just thought I'd catch up with all of you from the last thread to see if now we've moved on from the newborn stage things are any better?

Dd2 is nearly 5 months and sleep is still hit and miss. She is not good at sleeping when out and about so mornings are either spent at home or I choose to socialise and spend the rest of the day fighting to get her to sleep.

She still rarely goes down in the evening despite me trying for 1.5 hours. Eventually goes down 11.30ish and still often wakes twice a night

Am knackered, no end in sight. How's everyone else doing?

PS something odd just happened. DS went to bed late tonight as we were visiting relatives today who live an hour's drive away. DS was good as gold and seemed to enjoy being fawned over by his four teenage girl cousins, but was knackered by the time we left (about 5pm) and dozed in the car the whole way home. He eventually zonked out feeding at 8:30pm and I put him down asleep. He woke up 50 mins later, but all I had to do was poke my head round the door, go 'shhhh' and he went back to sleep!

I am now almost certain that he wakes after every sleep cycle because he's not tired enough, because he usually sleeps better after exertion or excitement. (Shortening/dropping naps makes no difference though - the tiredness needs to come from activity rather than lack of daytime sleep.) But how do I tire him out when it's just me and him?! I'm just boring old Mummy :(

I suspect he'll start sleeping better when he's crawling/walking. C'mon DS, get on with it!

What about a door bouncer count? Or a walk last thing?

count - thanks for the advice on shortening the night feeds. Think I may give it a try. Hopefully it will be easier than just trying to cut them out all together, which could result in lots of screaming, which I just can't go through in the middle of the night, not with DD1 and DS1 in the next room.

As yet, I have never managed to settle DD2 back to sleep at night without resorting to the breast (although it is only once or twice a night to be fair). She goes crazy if I try shh pat, or picking her up for a cuddle etc. Although we did have a bit of a breakthrough this morning - after a feed and nappy change at 5.30am, I switched on the lullaby gadget in her room (as I couldnt face getting up that early having just resettled DS after a bad dream at 4.45am) and SHOCK, HORROR, she went back to sleep until 7.15am!!!!! I can't remember the last time (if ever) she slept till 7.15am :) So as you can imagine, I have set up the lullaby thingy tonight so that it comes on when she cries - fingers crosssed!!

As for wearing out your DS, I agree with Bumper, door bouncers are great for excercising those little legs. Or one of those activity stations that they stand in and spin themselves round (I picked one up cheap on ebay, there are loads for sale on there). I do remember my DS sleeping better once he was properly on the move, so fingers crossed your little man will get moving soon :)

Hi everyone, thought I would update if anyone is interested! (Was just thinking that having this thread stops me endlessly discussing sleep with DP - a bone of contention between us).

After one night of vaguely 3 minute feeds I decided on a slight change of tack: bottle at 11 and then nowt until 6 (whne he was usually waking up). Have done that for the last 2 nights. First night and hour + of crying at 2, then he slept until 5 when I did feed him as couldn't bear more crying. He then slept til 7.20.

Last night, he woke as before at 2 but was easy enough to settle. He then woke at 4 where he took an hour of crying to go back to sleep. Slept for 40 mins (gah!) so I fed at 6 and he slept on until 8.20.

It's all incredibly random and, so far, the wakings are still roughly every 2 hours (i.e every sleep cycle). He is getting much easier to settle at bedtime (although I have to keep lying him back down a million times!). Also still feeding twice a night and I'm worried I'm being a bit inconsistent.

I've also started to worry about introducing a bottle - it's more feeding, not less! Was vaguely planning to reduce the amount of formula with water so that it is eventually all water.

Going to see what things are like tonight and then maybe reconsider. We seem to have one hour of screaming in the night at the moment, but then no real improvement.

Count I find swimming knackers DS out. Though you can't really do that every day I guess!

Oh has anyone advice about naps? It takes up to an hour to get DS to sleep in his cot for his nap. He seems tired at the beginning but then roams around the cot for ages. Even when he lies down it then takes an age for him to sleep. I really feel like its a shame for him that one hour of his day is spent trying to get him to sleep. Am wondering if I should just put him down later (at the moment aiming for first nap 2 hours after waking) which is what I've started doing at bedtime as we were having the same rigmarole.

missrose, i would say that if she is happy to suck her thumb then let her, my ds4 sucks his thumb and it was a GODSEND with sleep, if they are too sore to suck she will let you know. but yes they do grow out of suck to sleep but may need a bit of help along the way, my way was to let them get sleepy and then gently encourage them to fall asleep with me lying next to them adn patting them etc, i could usually tell quite quickly if this was going to work and i never 'pushed' it as an issue iykwim? as they do get their gradually with a bit of encouragement. how old is your dd? i think the suck to sleep thing is probably what most babies need until 6mths ish tbh and i didnt really start trying to stop it till nearer to 7-8mths and i got dp involved in bedtimes so he would lie with them once they were very sleepy and would pat/shush etc, sometimes this invovled a bit of crying but not loads as dp and i are both softies and cant cope with crying

so dd had a really SHITE night the night before last, if didnt get any bigger chunks bigger than half an hour and was awake from 4am replacing the dummy, i was in tears in the morning and i thne went back to bed leaving her with dp.

it made me question whether letting her have the dummy is a good thing and maybe we should just lie with her and shushh pat so she got used to going down at bedtime without it (was going to let her have it for naps) but at 21wks today, i think she is too young? and she WOULD cry and i dont think i can let her as she is too little? :(

anyhow last night was much better apart from a mega puking session at midnight (she has a cough again) and then she slept till 4:30 and fed and went back to sleep till 6:30 andthen i had to replace the dummy a few times between then and 8am when she woke!! thats the latest she has slept for AGES!! so that makes me think i can cope on nights like that.

i think at the moment my plan is to get to 6-7mths get her established on solids and move ds4 out of our room and then alter her bedtime routine (at the moment she sleeps for the evening in the pram in the livingrm) and start putting her to bed upstairs with a routine of change, feed, cuddle and down and we may try to do that without the dummy and do shhh pat, so that she at least goes down in the evening without the dummy? but we shall see it reallly depends on how our nights go, i can cope with occasional crap night ansd some not so good ones, but if they consistently become shite then we will have to do something before then. but i really hope we can just ride it out and she will leanr to find the dummy herself? BUT to do that we would have to stop swaddling her and at the moment thats not an option as she would just knock the dummy out all the time or maybe if we get desperate we would go cold turkey with both dummy and swaddling at 7mth ish? but i REALLY dont want to have to do that.

RAISING it sounds like he is ready to go down later, how old is he? we had been putting dd down for her nap 2hrs after first waking but recently its been more like three hours as she gets older and able to stay awake happily. IF he is happy in his cot then thats fine but if you are constantly reassuring him and settling him then maybe try keeping him up longer, it may be (like iwth dd) that some of that time has to be cuddle time, quietish activites ie read to him etc adn then when he goes down he will go off more easily?

NARMADA can i ask what your sleep training involved and how you did it and how old is your ds? i think he is similar to dd in age?

and also bumper YAY on no more puke but boo to the wakings, she is also still youngish tho isnt she?

IMO and thats all it is, i would say some night feeds are normall till 7-9mths especially for bfed babies. dd still feeds twice a night and am hoping that by the time she is 7-8mths i will be able to get her to either go from a feed at bedtime of 8pm through till maybe 6am, but more likely would be from a dream feed at 11ish though till 6-7am,thats my goal anyway........

oh and also my other issue with dd and her sleep is we are going away at the end of may for a wedding........well i am and taking ds4 with me, shall be staying one night at my parents where ds4 will be in his own room and then one night in a hotel where the two of them will be in with me and so i dont want to mess around with her sleep before then really? as generally she is good in the evenings and okish till 4-5am depending...and i dont want her to be a pita whilst away, esp as one night i am going out to the evening wedding bit and i will settle the two of them to bed and then my mums friend (a midwife) is going to babysit i am cacking myself about leaving dd for the evenign, BUT if anyone can cope then a midwife can right?!!

with regards to reduicing feeds in the nights, you can do it by timing bfeeds or just by giving less formula, so if they usually have 7oz give them an ounce less for a few nights and then reduce it again and so on. OR you could be really mean and offer water instead, but i could never hack that one!

and re entertainment i have found that dd likes to be out and about, even if its just a walk in the pram, so she has lots to look at, physical activity is great but when they are young just being out and about with lots to look at can help.

oh bathtime, i know many use it as part of a bedtime routine, but i always found my boys got hyped up with a bath and its more playtime than bedtime routine. they can now have a bath before bed but when younger it didnt help calm them down to sleep. even now if i am stuck for entertainment on a rainy day etc i chuck the younger two or three boys in the bath!

4madboys - he is 9 months old. yes, I think I'm going to try a later nap rather than sitting with him for an hour!! Can't really leave him, though he is happy, as he is pulling up to standing but wobbly - so liable to come crashing down.

Its good to read your posts as you have been there and been through it! It's good to hear that it does end (but then starts again when you have another dc!!!)

yes and the good thing is they arent all terrible sleepers, out of my 5 i have been blessed with ONE fab sleeper and tho dd isnt great she is nowhere near as bad as my first three boys.

so yes you can and will survive it and do it again and i can say that it really isnt down to parenting, oh those super smug parents who have a child that sleeps perfectly, it really is down to temprement and the personality of each child, they are all different and what works for one may well not work for another.

oh and i am NOT having any more! i should change my name to 5andnomore!

How's everyone doing? Did you get your evening off count?
Last night DS went to sleep at half seven and didn't wake up for four hours . I was a little excited as I don't know if he has ever done that before and was wondering if this was just him getting better on his own or if it was all the fresh air he got yesterday. When he woke though I found the answer was that he has caught another cold. He really is odd - he mustbe the only baby who sleeps better with a cold! Rest of the night was pretty normal.

judy dd has developed a cough the past day or so and tho i have had to replace her dummy more often she is actually sleeping more, the past two mornings she has slept in till 8am!

DS has gone from waking every 45 minutes to every 1.5 hours which is great but I'm still knackered, i now put him down in his cot and lie awake tensing every time he snuffles. Still, last night he only fed twice between 7.30 and 7.30, bottle at half ten and bf at 2, which is fabulous. So I'm taking some comfort jn that. Although I did spend 3-4 am standing under the extractor fan in the kitchen!

Ds has developed the annoying habit of waking himself up with a poo at 5.30!

yay for 4 hours Judy! shame it meant the start of a cold though :(

I agree with 4madboys that they grow out of sucking for comfort, but ime with DS it's not been a linear growing out of, he definitely goes through phases of needing it and then not again.

two feeds is great bigkids :)

and yes cosmosis its def a bit of a ongoing process the growing out of sucking to sleep, and a two steps forward and then some back here and there...

and judy hope your little one gets well asap xxx

He went to sleep on his own! I put him in his bed after a last feed and I sat there and stared at the ceiling. 12 minutes later he was asleep!!!!

He woke at 11 for a feed and 3 for a feed, and then 5.45 woke and came in to our bed and dozed.

Oh wow Cos, great stuff!

Things a bit 'ho hum' here. DS woke loads last night. I have no idea why, but we were up and down like yoyos. No screaming though - just random awakeness. Good old DH got up at 4:45am and let DS sleep on his shoulder until 6am because it was the only way he'd settle. Felt v bad as he had to go to work (I insisted he go back to bed for an hour while I got up with DS). Nice to finally share the load though - DS only fed twice between 7pm and 6am.

My mum's here at the moment. DH asked her to listen out for DS, who was having his morning nap, and to get him up when he woke so I could sleep. So DH leaves for work and she gets in the shower, which is right next to DS's room with a v loud creaky door and noisy pump - even I could hear her banging about in there - wakes DS up and can't hear him because shower's going so I had to get out of bed and get him up Wouldn't mind but she'd spent much of the previous evening going on about how my brother was such a light sleeper as a baby, you only had to drop a pin and he'd wake up, etc ... gah!

Sounds very good cos - hope it continues.

well tonight was shocking in comparison :( had to hold him to sleep for the first time in ages. I don't know if he's teething a bit or if it was because he's back at the cm again after all that time with just us (I only worked 2 days last week).

Hello everyone. Been trying to post for the last few evenings but up and down and up and down....ach, you know how it goes.

Not much change here in the narmada household. DS making a right song and dance of every sleep after a week of going down very peacefully. I think he has some sort of discomfort as he's better after ibuprofen.

Does anyone else on here do dreamfeeds? DS (now 6 and a bit mos) has started to refuse to take his unless we wake him up completely. Do you reckon it's time to stop??? Loathe to do anything to jeapordise him sleeping from 11-6.30 as it's contributed hugely to the return of my temporarily very absent sanity.

Sounds like there has been mixed success for everyone else. cosmosis yay! long may it continue and hopefully tonight will just be a blip.

count aaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrgh. Did you manage to keep your hair on with your mum? I think I might have exploded slightly. How are you feeling generally? Just wondering but have you ever tried DS sleeping on his tummy count? If he's over 6 mos and can roll both ways, I think it's less of a concern..... If you have and are therefore just pissed off at yet another 'have you tried' suggestion, feel free to swear at the computer in frustration as you read this....

judy's yours is not the only one - the few times DS has slept for longer than 26 minutes precisely for a nap have been when he has a cold coming on. He also slept better when he had tonsillitis. Very, very wierd.

Gaaaah

DS has been in his cot for two hours and has already woken twice . I was re-reading NCSS about how to extend naps, by sitting by the cot and intervening at the slightest stir, so thought I might try it for the period of time between going down and dream feed. I thought I'd sacrifice four nights to it. First night tonight and it has meant both times he woke up he was back asleep within a minute so that's good. But why won't the boy just bloody sleep!

We're off to stay with the in laws for a week from next Tuesday and I'm dreading it. They are lovely and fun and have five children and eight grandchildren so know all about sleep. But I'm worried it will make DS even worse and worried I'll be stuck up in the bedroom while the others all get pissed

He woke every hour again. DH found me weeping on the floor at five and took him off me till now. I'm so tired I can hardly hold him so I'm ringing Andrea Grace today.

I've just woken up after three hours' lovely sleep ... Lovely DH brought DS to me for a feed at 6am, then took him off to give him his porridge, played with him and put him down for his first nap. He slept for an hour and a half, then my mum (having learned from yesterday's shenanigans) got him up and entertained him. I woke up to hear DS doing his hungry noise - can't believe he went 4 hours between feeds! I've heard they can go longer when the mother isn't around but haven't ever been away from DS long enough to find out!

I went into his room, and he looked up and saw me and smiled, and my mum went, "Who's that?" and he said something that sounded suspiciously like "Mama" - probably a fluke though. - he's only 7 months old. I have been going "Mama! Mama!" at him for weeks, though!

narmada gritted teeth were necessary yesterday; I let off a bit of steam swapping irate and incredulous texts with DH!

I haven't tried tummy sleeping yet. DS always puts his head up in the cobra position when on his front, so not sure how it would work - maybe he'd put his head down if he were tired enough? Hmm.

He still woke up loads last night but went right back to sleep with shushing/jiggling/singing and I only did one feed between 10 and 6. Things are better now he will settle for DH again - it was such a nightmare when all the pressure was on me.

Sorry to hear most of the babies are still sleep nightmares. I wonder how long this thread will go on? Surely they'll start sleeping through before they reach their teenage years?

bigkids let me know how you get on with Andrea.