The 'newborn - sleep nightmare' continuation thread, Cosmosis, count, emo etc. Still a sleep nightmare?

[Bumperlicious]

Just thought I'd catch up with all of you from the last thread to see if now we've moved on from the newborn stage things are any better?

Dd2 is nearly 5 months and sleep is still hit and miss. She is not good at sleeping when out and about so mornings are either spent at home or I choose to socialise and spend the rest of the day fighting to get her to sleep.

She still rarely goes down in the evening despite me trying for 1.5 hours. Eventually goes down 11.30ish and still often wakes twice a night

Am knackered, no end in sight. How's everyone else doing?

Well Artie is back to waking every hour after midnight, don't really know what to do tbh :(

Sorry things have got worse cos - hopefully it's just a blip? Sounds like you're acheiving great things count - going to have to reread this thread and the nap one for tips.
We're going back home tomorrow so starting again with another plan. Think we're going to move DS into his own room and try harder to settle him in the cot and not give up and rock him to sleep. It's been really hard while we've been at my brother's as we're trying to make as little noise as possible. I have been having some success with getting him to sleep lying on the bed and then transferring him to the travel cot so hope that's a step in the right direction.
Getting lots of advice from friends and family to try formula and to let him CIO so can see now that being far away from them has it's advantages and disadvantages. I was tempted to give DS some of my neice's formula while I've been here just to give me a break but it's not going to help my supply and I'm also still experimenting with being dairy free so had a good reason not to. I went back on dairy for 2 days and he did seem more unsettled in the day and after going back off it yesterday he did three 2 hour stretches. So basically if it is a problem it makes him an atrocious sleeper (awake every hour) rather than a terrible one (awake every 2 hours).

Things getting worse instead of better here too. Used to sleep from about 8.30 til 1am once down but stretches getting shorter and shorter and last night was up from half 2 til4am for no obvious reason. On my knees today. Cos/judy sounds like you not great either. It's so hard isn't it. just got no idea what to do. Count glad things bit better for you

The downward spiral continues here. I have just e-mailed the sleep clinic that I mentioned before, and asked to use heir services. I have totally had enough and, as someone else said (sorry, can't remember who!) DH and I have read so much stuff and are so tired and down that we just can't see the wood for the trees any more. I need someone to hold my hand!

Sorry everyone's having a rubbish time. Another awful night here. It's so tough, isn't it?

I bit the bullet yesterday and went to see my GP. I felt so low over the weekend and kept randomly bursting into tears. At one point DS was just looking up at me completely perplexed while I cried - it wasn't even in the context of a sleep battle, I was just changing his nappy and he was being adorable - and I thought, this just isn't right. Anyway, I had to fill in that PND questionnaire and make another appointment for two weeks' time. I feel relieved to have done that, at least.

Blonde let us know how it goes with the sleep clinic. It was me that was saying we can't see the wood for the trees. If it goes on much longer I think I'm just going to suggest to DH that we talk to a sleep consultant.

Hi - we're not having a great time either. DS has been unwell so we've had to abandon our plans which I've found v frustrating (bit mean of me, not like he's doing it on purpose!)

Shushing and patting had led to him happily sleeping in his cot - but still waking every sleep cycle. I don't know what to do about night feeds as am still feeding A LOT in the night.

Feel low today - just feel really rubbish that he's almost 8 months and things are still chaotic. The lack of routine with his naps bugs me for some reason!

I think I've read too much too and can't see a way out of it a lot of the time. Think having a plan devised for your circumstances would be really good, and at least you know you just have to follow it and sleep will follow, rather than making it up yourself!

Anyway, good luck to everyone.

Count I'm really sorry to hear you are feeling so low. Well done for going to the GP- I really hope it helps.

DS has just gone down - really very easily, as is the norm - but I'm just counting the minutes until the inevitable wake-ups begin. Every night I get to about 5 and think, right, let's just fast forward to tomorrow now please! I cannot bear to go through all the stress every flipping night, including the meltdown that ensues every night after bathtime.

On the plus side, this sleepless night lark is the best diet I've ever been on. I'm closing in on weighing two stone less than I did when I got pregnant! Went jeans shopping today and fit into size 14 jeans in every shop I went into - that hasn't happened since my first year at uni!! Probably not the healthiest way to lose weight and I know it's down to stress and being too anxious to eat in the evenings but... hey ho, you have to take the breaks where you can get them!

sorry to hear people are so down, it is hard. Normally I'm OK but the other day just found myself thinking, FGS she is 1, surely she should sleeping better by now.

We managed to do feeding 2x4 hours yesterday with one wake-up in between for each. Although she wanted to get up at 5:30 despite the fact that our clocks have only just moved forward

Well, we moved DS into his own room last night when we got home from holiday and it was no better and no worse (well, bit worse for me as I spent more time out of bed as I fed him on a chair!).
I went to see the GP today about the dairy thing - told her that over the last 2 weeks the days I've not had dairy he's slept longer and when I have had it (tried this twice) he went back to waking every hour. Her advice was to do CC . I think she accepted that I wasn't saying he was a bad sleeper because of the dairy thing but just it'd had made things better. Wondering if I am going mad. There's been enough of a difference though that I don't want to go back but I still don't really believe in it. Last night he woke a couple of times before 11.30pm, then 2, 5 and up ata 6 (with DH ). I was trying to ask her about the implications for weaning and she said carry on if I wanted to with me eating no dairy, wean him on non-dairy for the next 6 weeks and come back after that (and after trying CC pretty much).
The GP said I shouldn't be feeding him at night at all and that I should do CC and stop the feeds. Bit too hardcore for me at the moment but there may come a point where I can stomach it. Hope some of you had ok nights (well hope all of you did but guessing that probably didn't happen!).

Useful advice from the GP there judy...

DH and I have finally decided to talk to a sleep consultant. We're going to use Andrea Grace - I spoke to her once before when DS was 9 weeks, and she was lovely, so hoping she'll be able to help. I don't think she'll tell us anything we don't know already, but I think we just need a plan we can follow and stick to, and have someone we can ask if things aren't working etc. We've had too many disagreements at 3am (to feed or not to feed) and it's getting impossible to be consistent.

Hopefully speaking to her on Monday - will let you know how it goes. It's going to be expensive but it's not like we've got any holidays planned or anything (hard enough to get DS to sleep at home let alone somewhere unfamiliar!). If I do have PND I know the best 'cure' would be to get DS sleeping better ...

PS judy was going to say that IME GPs know very little about babies and if you don't want to do CC you shouldn't feel pressured into it. I know we could do it on DS and save ourselves £250 but I just can't bring myself to (not that I disapprove of it or judge people who do it, I'm just not sure I could go through with it myself, and DS is such a persistent screamer it probably wouldn't work anyway).

Judy's- what brilliant advice from the GP, eh??!! I would stick with the dairy thing if you've noticed a difference. With my first DD she had bad reflux which I think she had grown out of by around 6 months, but by then the methods we'd used to get her to sleep and get us through the bad patch had become completely habitual too. I would say that even if you've removed a potential cause of bad sleeping (dairy) then there might still be some work to do getting DS to sleep better. However, at least now you can be relatively confident that he's not sleeping poorly due to discomfort. I found that helpful when I got to that stage with DD because it gave me the strength to be a bit firmer with her!

Count, I really wish you success with the sleep consultant. Andrea Grace was recommended to us by a friend, too: she knows a lot of people who've had success with her.

DS here is still a-wiggling and a squirming in his sleep until the magic 11 pm switch off, but then...shock horror, he has been sleeping through till 6.30. He shouldn't according to all the books because we rock, pace and dummy him to sleep every single time... which just goes to prove that most sleep behaviour is inborn, IMHO!

Hey all. Andrea Grace has a book - may be worth a look before shelling out? I have it and it has a few case studies in it, one of which is just like my DS so that's what we've been using (but doing it a lot sllloooower than she recommends).

She recommends night weaning for 6 months plus, encouraging self soothing either by CC or gradual withdrawal, bedtime routine (my summary of the book!). The night weaning is done by restricting lengths of feeds - as Millpond advised Enoon to do.

Judy - your DS is under 6 months if I recall, so am surprised by the GP advising to cut night feeds cold turkey and advising controlled crying. Don't think that the CC man himself Richard Feber advises cold turkey on the night feeds. Also I thought CC was only for babies older than 6 months, though not too sure why!

Thanks for the messages. I was surprised as well that the GP said to do CC (wasn't sure about cutting night feeds). She did say she had used it on her DC. I think that's what a lot of GPs do when you ask about babies - give you advice based on their experience. Another GP I asked said they don't teach us anything about baby sleep so I can't help you.
I mentioned that DS sometimes did 6 hour stretches around Christmas so she said there was no reason he couldn't do that now but afterwards I remembered that he would do the longer stretches when we had a really bad evening (2-3 hours of screaming) so think it was actually just he exhausted himself. I'm going to keep going with the dairy free and keep trying no-cry methods. To be honest, above 6 months, I don't think CC would do any real long term harm. What I do think would be worse than CC is doing it badly and I think that is what I would do. I just don't think I could handle it and that would be worse for everyone. DS is a screamer anyway and I could imagine him screaming for hours and hours and hours. Maybe it wouldn't be like that but I'm too afraid to find out. I know I would crack before it worked and that would be no good for anyone.
I do like the idea of a sleep consultant. You'll have to keep us updated count. I have so many conflicting things in my head that I've read I don't know where to go next so the idea of an authority figure telling me what to do is very appealing. Hope you're feeling ok too count and that your GP visit leads to some help.

narmada - I'm hoping this is something DS will grow out of soon too. Glad your DS is doing some longer stretches.

Hi all. Not much from me recently as basically no changes - sleep still crap, DS won't sleep in the cot after midnight and I am coping by letting him sleep on me. Not tenable.

I have just been lent Wendy Dean's book on baby sleep solutions, has anyone tried it? There is also a website. She offers a range of techniques based on baby whisperer, CC etc, and it is all about getting a goid daytime routine, reducing night feeds, all the usual stuff. I am thinking we need to get a bit more hardcore, as all I'm teaching DS at the moment is that sleeping on me instead of in his cot is just fine... and I really need to sleep. I could cope with a couple of wakings at consistent times, but not this every two hours (at best) business. If this does not work then we are going to fork out for Millpond (have not discussed this with DH yet but would personally pay £315 for a good night's sleep I reckon). Andrea Grace sounds worth a try too. Have spent a bloody fortune on Amazon on these things.

Judys I totally sympathise with the fear of doing CC badly and really buggering things up. I think that part of the reason why I've been reluctant to do anything is an underlying fear that I really could damage DS or his relationship with me. On one level I feel as though I should be able to keep going until he's ready to sleep better. But what if that doesn't happen for weeks or months?

Hi all

Sorry things are still crap for everyone. I look forward to the day when you can all leave this thread

Count I'm sorry you are so low :(. It just seems so unfair that these sleep issues are having such an effect on us. Some people must just sail through maternity leave. I hate that I am sleep waling through mine.

We are over the pox thank god, and back to normality, such as it is. Night before last she slept 11.30-6, last night 11.30 till 6.30 with a 3am wake up in the middle. What's the logic? But unlike you guys the nights aren't so much of an issue to me, it's the fricking evenings, I want my life back, I'd settle for some semblance of it. I have spent 2 hours feeding DD2 tonight and she is still up. Have escaped upstairs while DH amuses her for a while as I have had enough.

I'm sorry some of you have had to resort to sleep clinics. Really tests the claim 'I'd pay anything for a good night's sleep'!

Having a shit evening. Am sat here in tears and seething anger. Have tried to put dd2 into her hammock twice only for her to wake up and scream. She hasn't slept all evening, except for feeding to sleep on me.

Am so sick of being at the whim of this baby. I would like to go to bed before 11.30 just once in 6 months. And who knows when I will be up next.

4th time's a charm

Oh Bumper . Feel for you. I hope the 4th time lasted. I know exactly what you mean about maternity leave resentment. I thought I would do baking - it's a good day when I manage a cup of tea, never mind bloody cupcakes...

Hi all,

If you can afford it, I really really would recommend a sleep clinic. Dd has slept through 8-6 (with 10pm dream feed) every except 1 since Friday. We're now working on her going to sleep without any assistance (currently shushing with still had on tummy). Naps much easier, takes no time to get her off to sleep. No cc and very little crying at all, just a few times when shush patted for naps.

No I am constantly tired because I've been doing stuff all day, not been sitting in my pjs crying and dreading the nights which was my previous existence.

I think just having someone telling you exactly what to do, who you van ask any little question really really helps. And it makes you try things that you would never have thought would work (e.g. Bed without feed, dh putting dd to bed) - and turns out it can work.

Good luck all, I really hope it gets better soon.

Enoon you're my inspiration!! DS didn't manage even two hours in a row last night. We've read everything and are totally confused. We just need someone to take us in hand and tell us what to do.

DS is going to sleep unassisted now (except for still hand on tummy) but is still constantly waking, so am intrigued as to what Andrea's going to suggest.

Well DS is over his virus, so we had a much better night, he woke at 1, 3.30 and 6.30 (well that was for the day but that's normal) all for food - was starving. I think I'd be happy for things to carry on like that, it's so much better than it was and gives me enough sleep to function with.

Sorry others are feeling so down. I can totally understand the sleep clinic idea, I think it would really feel helpfull to have someone tell you waht to do! I find that in the middle of the night I just can't remember obvious things I thought of in the day, or that have worked before so I think having a proper written plan would really help.

Good luck count! I'm sure you will get there. Dd was the worst sleeper I know before we contacted millpond.

My dd was sleeping on her own too, but still waking a lot. Because you've got your ds self settling, it will probably be much easier. The major changes we had were to our (pretty haphazard) routine, bedtime and introducing a dream feed. We also had to get dd on three meals a day. Nothing too drastic- kind of feel silly that a few small changes can make such a huge difference. Will be interested in Andrea's suggestions. I called her too but she was on holiday and I was so desperate I went with millpond without speaking to her. Millpond gave been very good though.

Enoon - can I just ask a silly question about the dream feed - is this literally when you feed them in their sleep, or just a late evening feed. Do you do breast or bottle?

Is anyone baby led weaning? This is one of my issues with cutting the night feeds, so maybe a dream feed would be a good idea.

Good luck with Andrea Grace, Count! She sounds lovely in her book!