Why Wont He Sleep?! and other questions.

[PavlovtheWitchesCat]

I have several issues right this second:

1. he won't nap in the day.
2. he wakes every 2-3 hourly at night time
3. he wakes at around 5am and cries until he can suckle til 6:00-6:30am
4. he won't leave me alone. not for one second.
5. he appears to have a bit of a temper (while strangely being a very calm and chilled out baby when we let him wield the knife or fork - his obsession atm).

I am exhausted and suffocated. This evening, i have had him pawing at me quite aggressively with his little razor claws thinking it is a game a being too cute for words with it. I felt like crying and laughing all at the same time.

Can anyone help me to gain a little serenity, courage and wisdom please?

How old is he?
Is there anything that can get him to sleep? DD2 was a horrible napper from about 6 months so I would walk for ours with a blanket over the buggy so she couldn't see out so she would sleep. Once she started napping more she slept better at night.

I think the sleep is the key to the rest tbh.

Has he always been a bad sleeper?

Re: the serenity, courage and wisdom, all I can say is 'this too shall pass'.
Any chance you can get away for the night somewhere so you can get a decent night's sleep? Does he take ebm?

He is 11 months on thursday.

He likes a drive in the car. I drove for 2.5 hours yesterday to get him to catch up, well, i stopped for half hour. I think he might have even slept longer. but, we have another child who cannot just sit in the car for hours and hours, and I work/dh is at home in the mornings. and the cost of petrol is not great for 2.5 hours driving every day eh? not to mention the lack of anything else getting done.

He has always been a pretty bad sleeper yes. He fed between 1-2 hourly since he was born, a milk monster. But now, its not the milk he wants, it is the comfort. In fact, its not even the boob comfort, he sometimes just wants mama. But he prefers the boob of course! He will fall asleep on DH without milk or boob (he will take a bottle occasionally), but as soon as he is put down he wakes, bounces up and down and cries. He will only sleep in our arms unless at night.

We had started to get him to sleep one stretch of up to 6 hours, from about 7:30pm-1:30am or so, then sleep til 5am, then til 6:30am, and even the odd night of 7:30am-5am, but so rare, i wake up through it all now.

Ilythia i have been saying This Too Shall pass, but now, I just can't see it ever passing any more. I don't even know if I could sleep more than 3 hours even if I wanted to. Last night, he woke at 3am, went back to sleep at 3:30am, that was it, awake for me.

ilythia poor DH is knackered too. He does his fair share of trying to settle him, and then he has him all morning fussing and not sleeping, and this week he also has a poorly DD on her half term break, so I would not be happy to do that to him just yet. In two weeks, I am taking one week off work, and if not resolved we are doing it then, he will do 3 nights, and let me sleep, and then my turn for 3 nights.

I am just not sure I can wait that long...

Is CC anything you would consider?

thighs no, I could not bring myself to do CC. I will try lots of fluffy things, but not CC.

I do not recall it being this hard with DD. I know it was hard, at this age we did the baby whisperer, but she mainly had issues going to sleep, not waking in the night (other than for a 1am feed in the end, which we got rid of relatively easily), not after around 8 months when we put her in her own room.

With DS there is no pattern, no consistency in his sleeping, even though we have tried to offer one. Its not even like he is waking up at the end of each sleep cycle, it seems much more random than that. Like, he gets to sleep, wakes, or something wakes him, and he refuses to sleep without us there.

Hello pavlov are you me?
My 12m dd sounds exactly the same - always been a bad sleeper. I too used to 'do the drive' - people used to say 'oh how awful for you.' But actually I got a coffee and put the radio on and drove and drove around south Devon, with a slightly deranged look in my eyes. Peace, comparitively
DD 's night time sleeps went through a goodish phase at about 8 months, but for the last three months it has been 3/4/5 wake ups a night. Will only settle with boob.

How does one wean off the boob whilst this is going on? (Little hand thumps the boob thump thump) How do you stop the sicky feeling from lack of sleep?
And don't you find yourself wondering how much of a difference it would be if you too had a 7-7 child? I know I do.

So i don't know the answers, sorry, but am RIGHT HERE sharing your pain...

Would you consider using a sleep clinic?

I did - It was the best thing i ever did

My DD woke every 3 hours for a feed night and day and I was going back to work FT

Basically, I reduced the time of each night feed by one minute every other night so it was very gentle and it worked

What the clinc were good at was holding my hand through it and helping me see the wood for the trees

Also, you don't have to od CC to soothe them - you can use gradual withdrawal as well

My Ds2 used to wake up between 11 and 1 every night at the same age.

I tried all the fluffy options, then I got hard and turned my back on him (he was in my room) and shushed for about 4 nights. He got the hint and stopped waking up.

heylottie you are me. we might even pass in our cars on occasion, i drove up the a38 towards paignton yesterday! I bounce in to work, with a spring in my step laden with coffee and my bags covered with benefit erase paste. They do not know how much i would give for even 5 hours without interruption asleep. Or for him to play at my feet, or on my lap, or follow me around happily as he used to, instead of constantly tugging on my leg.

I love him dearly and I feel so mean even writing this all down as its not what I feel about him. it is just a bit of it, but its a bit that is so hard to cope with.

ruby - his feeding is so random though, it used to be relatively consistent, but perhaps if I am honest, not even then was it properly reliable. We stopped the dream feed as he refused the bottle/boob (DH had been feeding him), just wanted shh'ing. I cannot afford a sleep clinic! if i could.

colditz his cry actually hurts my head. It makes it hurt so much I just cannot bear it. It makes me feel sick, it brings on migraine type symptoms. If we make it to the two weeks from now, we can do this as DH will do it and I will go to DDs room in the loft (we did this for 3 nights, and broke the initial 6/7 times a night waking, took the 3 nights though, but he was in our room then, and was quieter in his crying so i slept through, by the third night anyway, my only sleep of more than 6 hours for 21 months! He is now closer to the loft and dh is further away and won't get to him so quickly, he will wake me!)

Oh gosh - I called mine the Dartmouth loop. It was a good twenty minute circuit and I could really pick up speed...
I have considered a sleep clinic ruby but didn't really ever follow up, I guess because the wake ups were sporadic and didn't seem to follow a pattern that might benefit, iyswim
Tough love is approaching. I have been put off cc etc by teething/cold/cough etc but the time is coming

Sorry pavlov have hijacked the thread rather. I am dreading the clocks going back and a little girl shouting 'hiya' in my face at 5am, before that hour long commute to work.

In the dark hours pav I put the sleeplessness down to my child being absurdly bright...

Am sorry - sleep deprivation is hideous

I think whatever way you try to go, you need to make a plan and stick to it unbendingly

I saw a difference in 3 nights with DD and within 2 weeks there were no feeds between 10 pm and 6.30 am

Also, have you used a cuddly? DD loves hers and they can be a cue for sleep. DD has several different ones so there is no stress if one is in the wash

Heylottie - worht a call? They have heard it all before and more

It was the best money I ever spent - yes, it was a lot but TBH it was that or my sanity

I commute for 2 hours per day and I needed to be alert

ruby i tried to introduce a cuddly, i did this for ages after vaguely attempting ncss, and continued this for a while after. he just was not interested. although dd brought him back out for a play the other day, and ds was quite interested in it, so maybe i will try it again.

Its that 'unbending' bit i am struggling with, contending with a) a dh that wants instant results from what we do b) me, who wants instant results c) i cannot cope with the crying d) I am so tired i have no strength left.

Oh pav, you sound so miserable, I forget how old your DD is but she's preschooler age isn't she? Yeah, driving not feasible.

I know what you mean about it taking over everything and feeling mean, and the constant constantness is so wearing.

I sometimes find 'This too shall pass' really irritating, so sorry if you do too

heylottie really don't worry about hijacking, we can share our desperation together !

she is 4, no longer a pre-schooler , she sleeps through, but is an early riser. unless like today she is a bit poorly so slept til almost 7:45am! unheard of. Shame ds didn't (well not really, i would have been late for work!)

right talking of sleep, i am going to get my head down, for either 1 or 3 hours sleep, depending on when he feels the need for a cuddle.

Keep on suggestions and support though ladies, i might well be back on later if i can't sleep after he is up next! thank you x

Do you think that they will just 'grow out of it'? I always assumed that dd would at some point, but I do wonder if I have got her into bad sleep habits that just wont just magically undue themselves. So something has to be done in a methodical and patient way, and with a bit of luck on ones side too.

It's so shit isn't it?

DD has woken once tonight already so I am off to bed but will ponder more and check back in the morning

If it's any consolation my health visitor called dd 'the worst sleeper in town'...

hey ho... xxx

I wonder that myself you know. I have tried so hard to not get into a bad routine, I had blamed myself for a bad routine with DD, due to lots of travelling to London and back, so when she was 6 months she was waking 1.5 hourly. I did things differently this time, i did not encourage, I tried to settle other ways, but DS was just so hungry, clearly hungry, so i fed, and for different reasons (or perhaps not) he still was waking 1.5 hourly at the same age. And DD was relatively easy to work out of it.

So, i took credit for DD and maybe it was just her 'time' and she grew out of it as you say. Maybe I am trying all this stuff and nothing will work, and he will just do it when he is ready. Or maybe I am setting him into a routine that is not right.

I just don't know. I like the idea he will just do it himself one day, but worry i am making it worse.

And I don't want to wish this time away. It goes so fast, I want all the other bits to stay this way, to enjoy and savour and love him. Like I really do. But when i feel like this, i wait til this is resolved and that means him growing.

How can you want two things so badly and so equally that are opposed to each other?

I hope you get some sleep heylottie

You could try offering a beaker of water when he wakes at 1am. I had a similar situation with my DD2, who woke at 1am and 5am for a feed until nearly 2. However, when I eventually decided to be hard about it, it seemed easier to get her to sleep with a beaker at 1am. Afte that I just went along with the BF at 5am because it lulled her back to sleep until 7ish. If you can get someone else to offer the beaker at 1am, it makes it loads easier - should take about 3 nights. Be prepared to hear crying for a little while - but this is not CC - the baby will not be left in his cot unattended, but cuddled by someone else who cares for him (and doesn't smell of BM).

If it's any consolation, my insomniac baby is now amongst the best sleeping toddlers/young kids, and often has "lie-ins" till 7.30-8am.

In the meantime, try to get to bed as early as poss yourself. I know it eats into your already short evenings, but if you can get your head down around 9pm, you could have 4hrs sleep before the first waking. Or better still, if you have earplugs and a partner, wack 'em in at 9pm, and give partner a beaker and instructions for the 1am shout. Then let partner put in earplugs when baby wakes at 5am whilst you try to get him back to sleep with a BF.

Can I join you in the hazy mists of tired-befuddledness? Hey and Pavlov I could have written your posts... DS 13.5m wakes at random intervals, will only settle with a bf and then we co-sleep. I hope in vain that he will grow out of it but it is at best the same as a year ago, if not worse

I can't help thinking it is my fault, DH is great... would do something if he could but I just cannot bare the screaming.....he keeps pushing me for a CC/gradual withdrawal approach but I have no faith it'd work.

Sigh, and so to bed.... for a bit anyway

Morning ...

Just to go back to your comment about wanting instant results ... There aren't any, which is pants I know

It is about changing months and months of ingrained habits

I have been there with both of mine - although DD was worse than DS

Tackling sleep issues is hard, precisely because you have no energy

Some children will grow out of their sleep habits but sometimes you can't wait for that

In the grand scheme of things, taking 2 weeks to do something is at least more positive

Also, I once read a great analogy about breast feeding - if you lived next door to your favourite restaurant you would eat there a lot. Same for breast milk for babies! They love it and the comfort aspect too

I don't have much of any use to offer (we did PUPD with our DD at 7 months and it worked- but it sounds like you are familiar with this technique from your adventures with your DD?), but I just wanted to say that it is very clear from your posts how much you love and cherish your ds. You don't sound mean at all, you just want some sleep!

I have just ordered one of those night light projecter thingies to put on dd's cot, in an attempt to get her to go back to sleep when she wakes at 5.15am each day! Will let you know if it works.