Come talk to me about the 4 month sleep regression.

[Neeko]

DD2 was 4 months on Thursday. Since then (how did she know? ) she has started waking in the night and being awake for up to 2 hours at a time.This goes on all night.I think we had about 3.5hrs sleep on Thursday and about an hour more on Fri. She previously used to wake once, feed (BF) and go back to sleep.
When she is awake she's hyper, pumping her legs continually and shouting out. She does feed but isn't really that interested. She sleeps in a crib in our room in gro-bag and we have blackout curtains.

Does this sound like sleep regression? How long is it likely to last and is there anything I can do to help?

Thanks

Can I join you as well please? I have DTs who were 4 months old on Monday and I have been having horrendous nights for over a week now. My boy twin actually sleeps through the night so I am least spared 2 of them giving me grief but my girl twin has gone from waking once or twice in the night to waking every 1-2 hours come 10 or 11 or midnight right through to about 5. I BF her every time to calm her down and to be fair she's only up for about 20 mins each time but I am exhausted with it all.

Interestingly (and maybe not what some of you want to hear!) my boy twin is formula fed. I was going to ask whether anyone with a FF baby is experiencing this 4 month wobble or whether it's the preserve of BF babies like my girl twin. I am seriously thinking of switching her over if it continues like this - she has a couple of bottles a day already - but it would be a shame just to stop bf'ing for this reason.

Oh God, please can I join - I am having a horrible evening, have been crying .

DD was 4 months on Tuesday and have had awful nights for a couple of weeks now (waking nearly every hour).

The only thing keeping me sane was getting her down in her cot at 7.30 - 8pm but tonight has taken until about 10 minutes ago and I know she will probably wake again when I go up at 11.

There have been no decent naps for weeks.

I am in the middle of a house move to the other end of the country so I haven't got much time in the day to spend ages trying to get her to nap. DH is working v long hours and not around much.

EBF up till now - am seriously considering a bottle of formula tomorrow night. I know it doesn't always help but my boobs are feeling sore again from so much bf-ing to try and get her off to sleep.

sympathy to all of us suffering :(

DD finally settled at 9pm and we are tip-toeing around the house so not to disturb the little time we get... she is so easily wakeable at the moment...

I feel for you passionberry as my girl will definitely stir when I go to bed too.... I have even tried sleeping in the next room ear to the monitor to see if it extended her snooze time but no joy, she is just very restless at the moment. My DD has had formula at night once, don't want to disappoint but it made no difference and racked me with guilt. Try by all means, hope it works for you....

x

Ok, me too. Very interested to read all this so thought I'd come on and join in.

DS2 now 18 weeks was doing really well with just 2 or 3 night wakings till 14 weeks when it all abruptly stopped and he hasn't slept more than 2 hours since. I spend a fair amount of time angry/tearful/despairing/resigned and back to angry again .

DS1 now 3.5 years did the same thing from 16 weeks and I just went with it, BF him every 40 mins to 1.5 hours every night thinking that it's only a phase, it's not forever, he knows what he needs, blah... He wasn't interested in solids at 6 months but by 8 months was eating three good meals plus still BF but STILL waking every 40 mins. At 10.5 months old I gave up and did 3 hellish, REALLY hellish nights of controlled crying - a very low point in my life which actually put me off having another baby (although obviously not enough to actually NOT have another one ). He's now a champion sleeper.

Back to DS2 (sorry, I'm writing a novel here) - I'm determined not to put up with this nonsense this time! I'm seeking advice and although none of it has worked yet, I thought it might be helpful to post here what I've been told.

HV said: give him a bottle of formula or begin weaning. I do consider this in desperate moments but haven't actually done it. (Why are HVs always so pants?)

NCT/ABM/LLL BF support telephone lines said: could be a hindmilk/foremilk imbalance (we have lots of wet nappies but slow weight gain) and advised me to feed longer on or return to one breast several times in the course of three hours and make sure I have a clear hour with no feeds for my body to produce hindmilk. Also suggested using breast compressions to squirt more down his little neck and hope the extra calories keep him going longer. Also said to 'tank him up' during the day, and use a sling to maintain lots of contact. Also suggested gum massage before feeds in case of teething. Also suggested moving him to another room (short of sticking him in the loft, we don't have another room... although I will consider the loft a serious option... or the garden shed...)

Midwife at a support group at local hospital: Said I wasn't eating enough myself for my body to produce fatty milk - with a toddler and sleep deprivation, I really couldn't be bothered eating - I'm now eating for England - this HAS made a difference to poo colour (ahem, his not mine) they're now bright sunshiny yellow which is apparently a good thing. No effect on sleep though .

And finally today, the breastfeeding co-ordinator for the borough was at a local children's sure start centre: Said I needed to watch my positioning of DS2 at the breast as I was still holding him to feed like he was a newborn and this was preventing him getting a full feed. His head should be more to the front, bum right around near my hip - this has also made a difference as he has had quicker feeds today. Don't know if I should be hopeful for a longer sleep tonight as he went down at 8.30 and was awake again by 9.45.

I've decided to try and put him down awake at the beginning of each night instead of feeding him to sleep - he cries for 5-10 minutes but I'm hoping this might be a more gentle way of getting him to break the habit of feeding to sleep all the time (I think this is the habit DS1 got in to). I hate leaving him to cry at all, ever - think I'm a bit neurotic in this way but I'm pretty desperate for a way out of this mess.

Anyway, hope all this might help someone out there...

Ha ha camdenflick - Bombay Sapphire did actually get me through the first few weeks of cluster feeding!

Well - had another bad night last night, she seems really hungry as she always has a good feed before she goes down again. Then again, she's a very good weight so she's obviously getting enough. Arrgghhh - don't know what to do re. formula (heavily recommended by both HV and mother!)

Has anyone else noticed that the bad sleeping seems to coincide with a developmental advancement? I remember we had a few bad weeks when she learnt to roll on her side, then it got better again. Now she is suddenly using her hands a lot more and pulling the blanket up over her face (!!) which seems to unsettle her. . .

Hi fellow sufferers. Sorry I've been AWOL. Lots of stuff going on here this week in addition to lack of sleep so the thought of switching on the laptop was just a step too far.

DD2 is napping now (lucky thing!) after being up to play from 3-5.30am. Agree that it's tied into development (Barbie Your 12 hour sleep is coming cos she's not got much left to learn!!) and I also suspect that formula would help. DD1 started on one bedtime bottle of formula at 16 weeks and slept through the night from, you've guessed it, 16 weeks!
Formula is not an option here though as DD2 will take boob and only boob. She is thriving which I'm grateful for but I would have no qualms about giving her some formula now (almost 20 weeks) although I realise it's a personal choice.

Hope you're all still sleeping

Hiya all,

agree with the development thing for sure- DD rolled over for the first time Thursday, and now I think about it she has been waking up arching her back possibly trying to roll in her cot....don't want to jinx us but last 2 nights have been a bit better once she finally settles, rather than hourly/90 min wakings we have had at least 1 good first block of 4 hours so i am eternally optimistic!!! after that depends how much energy I have as to wether she goes back in the cot or we end up co-sleeping. Another thing I have been trying is to offer her the boob more in the day, to ensure she is definitely 'full' at night as prior to this I had been scheduling her more every 4 hours....

who knows but I am hopeful :)

does anyone on this thread have any experience of implementing NCSS?? I have just read the book, trying to coax DH to read also with the hope of using at 5-6 months when/if this regression thingy is clear, DD is fed to sleep and does not self settle at all so was hoping to use this method to tackle it in case she doesn't grow out of these habits herself...

hope everyone has a better night tonight x

hello all you sleep deprived Mummies - ca i join in this little support group?

DD is nearly 18 weeks, never slept through, although we were getting occasional 6 hr stretches early in the night a while ago, and she had even fallen asleep on her own once or twice! however for weeks now, its been horrible during the day - 30min naps, if at all, with lots of rocking, walking, swinging to get her there, with result that it takes hours to get her to sleep in the evening, and now the last week or so, the nighttime has been horrendous - awake every hour or so - have taken to just co-sleeping, we have a bedside cot but there just doesn't seem to be any point in using it! Got a bit more sleep last night because I basically cuddled her all night, so will try the same again tonight, plus will go to bed when she does I think.I also suffer from insomnia, so find it so hard to get to sleep in the first place - smetimes hae only just dropped off and then she wakes up.

I am just so tired and just think the worse sleep recently, along with no unbroken sleep since before she was born (pregnancy insomnia!) is causing me to just completely obsess about it all the time - plus the crying, shouting (mostly when on my own, but once or twice at her - so ashamed , plus just feel really down and fed up - just feels like all I ever do is think about how muh sleep she is getting, and when she will sleep next, or not. Crying at night, plus feeling really angry too - its all so bloody horrible! At least now I know I'm not the only one - but how do you all cope with it - I just feel like its been going on for weeks. DH is lovely, but he doesn't get it - he just thinks that she isn't tired if she isn't sleeping, and that she will when she is ready - no amount of pointing out that she has bags under her eyes and is squealing in a manic fashion will convince him otherwise! suppose its different if you do get out of the house and get to talk to adults for a time every day - I just feel like this is all I do now. have begun to really look forward to going back to work and am really not enjoying my little girl, which is horrible, I should be!

I am really scared that if it continues I am just going to get really angry, or I will make a mistake driving or something, I really am so rubbish with no sleep.

Sorry for the ramble, not enough sleep to use proper paragraphs...

Hiya holytoast

all I can say is we were the same with DD for at least 3 weeks, fingers crossed she seems to be sleeping for longer stretches again but I have learnt not to count my chickens... when DD is waking frequently I too pull her into my bed- its the easiest option but the good news is she has mostly been in her cot the last 2 nights. How long has the disturbed sleep been for?? the regression has to end eventually, ours seemed to settle with DD rolling for the first time....

Good to know Scarlett - DD too is rolling, or t least trying to, gets halfway and gets stuck, plus has been putting hands in mouth with more purpose, plus holding things...I suppose with everything going on in her tiny brain, sleep goes out the window! Its been really bad at night for up to a week, the daytimes have been bad forever, it seems, since about 8 weeks. So there is light at the end of the tunnel, maybe another few weeks....
We lost the last dummy today, so have decided not to get any more, to see if she will settle herself with her fingers and thumb, which she has done a few times - possibly this will help, although I d just find it easier to just feed her back to sleep, and she almost always seems hungry.
Roll on, well...rolling then!

hi all

Welcome holytoast - apart from the insomnia bit, i could have written your post. Its awful not to be enjoying some of the time just because of the sleep issues isn't it.

still not much of an improvement here although DD did manage a 4hr stretch last night. I heard her stirrng, so rocked the moses basket and when she woke for real i realised that we'd both been back to sleep! on the downside, the napping has been completely shite today. 2 x 30 min naps that took an hour to get her down for each time...
She is 5 months now. Please let this nearly be over with so we can all get some sleep!
Off on hols on Weds, so really hoping she'll settle down a bit.

I have resorted to trying a tiny bit of baby rice tonight on the off chance that it might make her sleep longer [fingers crossed] but i doubt it tbh.

Hope everyone has a better night tonight

Just a quick update to say that DS is very slowly getting better at night (touch wood). I had given up all hope just a week ago when it got to hourly from 1am but the past few nights he has almost been consistently 2 hourly, which probably sounds like hell to some but is heaven for me. I checked my diary and realised that the last time he slept more than 2 hourly was the middle of MAY. Since then he had been going steadily downhill but it looks like he might have hit rock bottom last week - FINALLY!!

The bloody annoying thing is that we're taking him to Australia on Thursday - just as his sleep is starting to slowly return back to normal we're going to really screw it up again. Arrrrgghhhhhh!!!!!

Anyway, just thought I'd post this to give hope to others! He is still only halfway there with his rolling (been trying for months) but I guess / hope that he's close to doing the full flip if his sleep is settling now.

Hi all. Ups and downs on here. We had quite a good night last night but spent much of yesterday afternoon at the beach so think it might have been the sea air.

Holytoast My DD2 (now 20 weeks) was the same for daytime naps at that stage. What worked/ is still working for us is naps in the pram in the kitchen with the extractor fan on! She used to scream blue murder going down for a nap and I used to stress myself out completely. I started using the fan for white noise and it really helped. I've also been picking her up at nap time when she cries, settling her and putting her back down whilst rhythmically shushing. Eventually she would settle and I'd rock her to sleep.
In the beginning this could take 40mins but now (touches wood, please don't jinx it!) it generally takes less than 5 and I'm slowly removing the fan.

She can now nap for up to 2 hours in the morning and generally the better she naps, the better she sleeps at night.

I have to feed her to sleep at night whenever she wakes and the one time I went out (from 8.30pm-10.30pm) she woke up and DH had to do the pram/kitchen fan routine.

DD1 needed none of this and I find it incredible that I've resorted to it, but it helps.

Koeda-

I'm really interested to hear how your Oz trip impacts sleep (hopefully not too much) as I am taking DD to San Francisco over Xmas to visit my brother... am excited about the trip but to be honest nearly did not book at all as so hesitant about her sleep, not wanting to make things worse... but hey ho we are going for it, shes 8 months by then so hopefully in better habits. Good to hear things are improving for you...

night all x

Scarlett175 I'll keep you updated! I'm hoping that given DS's sleep pattern is still very 'active' he will adjust quicker than a 7-7 baby that sleeps through. But to be honest I'm pretty much preparing for ANY scenario knowing my little rascal.

Lots of people have told me babies adjust much quicker, and my parents took all 3 of us siblings all over the world as little babies without much problem apparently. Fingers crossed!

Thanks Neeko, good to know the naps can get better - DD slept for about 90 mins all day tops, this was all short naps - at one point thought I had her back to sleep after one of them, however wide awake and giggling 5 mins later! She has taken to laughing when I try and rock her to sleep too - thinks it's hilarious!

We had very little sleep last night again, but sprogger we have had a bit of a breakthrough too I think - I hope - because she has, for about two naps, and twice this evening, settled herself to sleep by sucking her thumb. This is unheard of! so we shall see. have also been feeding her as much as possble today, offered her a feed every hour or o, it seems, and he has taken it - so we shall see if that fills her up for the night!

So good to hear others are having similar experiences, curly dont feel quite so alone - at least I know I am not the only one up at silly O clock silently saying 'just go to sleep!'.

Hope everyone has a better night, I am off to bed, perchance to sleep!

I lingered at the formula aisle in Sainsbury's today... (Ooh - and I got ID'd buying a bottle of wine even though I'll be 36 next week, hee-hee!). I didn't cave but I'd be interested to know if the baby ricers have any luck?

DS2 has been doing a regular two lots of two hours during the first part of the night before the Madstoopid Waskeyuppy game begins and it made me wonder about routines and how naps affect night time sleep. I always feed him to sleep, never try anyting else as it seems to be the quickest and easiest and path of least resistance. He's put himself on a three nap routine at about 11am, 1pm and 5pm (max of an hour each time) and bed at 8.30pm (bedtime dictated by the fact my DS1 goes to bed round this time too), mad fun muckabout at 5.30am for an hour or two and awake properly for the day at 9am. Just wondering if everyone else's LO is getting a similar amount of sleep?

Good luck tonight!
Sincerely
Sleepless in Enfield
xx

camdenflick I don't have a routine as much for DS - -
a bit like you I let him set his own pace most of the time - but anyhow here is roughly what he gets up to sleep wise on a daily basis:

Wake: btwn 6-8am depending on bedtime (usually has 11-12 hours 'sleep' at night)
1.5hrs later: nap - 45mins
2hrs later: nap - 30mins
2hrs later: nap - 30 mins
possibly another round of awake time then 30min nap, depending on how the day has panned out, then
2-3hrs later: bedtime btwn 6-8pm

so, total of around 2hrs in naps and 11-12hrs in night sleep. On the occasions he has had a much longer afternoon nap, or if I've experimented with a bit of nap 'blending' to get him off again he's ALWAYS had a far more unsettled night. So I'm pretty confident his schedule is right for him at the moment, even though it's a lot less than all the baby books recommend.

Had a rough night last night as I also feed to sleep and as he wakes a lot I haven't yet solved how to avoid leaks & midnight nappy & babygro change which leaves him WIDE awake - a killer when he was previously sleeping soundly albeit in a damp puddle if his own wee :(

Just checking in to say the formula didn't help and I think drinking from the bottle gave her wind!!

I did enjoy someone else giving her a feed though

I will also be interested to hear if baby rice helped!

Anyway - daytime naps seem to be getting easier but night times still very bad - 2 hour stretches at most. Mainly hourly wake ups though

hello all,

can i have a bit of a moan here too please?!!?

DS (14 weeks today!!) was a good sleeper from the word go, always at least 4 hours stints, got to waking once a night, anytime between 3 and 6am for a quick feed then back to bed for another few hours. He went down easy everytime as well. I knew how good i had it!

However, the last 3 nights he has been up every 2 hours!! i'm sooo tired and cranky and weepy :(
I've been feeding him everytime he wakes (BF), and he usally goes down ok, sometimes he needs settled (never used to need this). When he wakes he is pretty upset and chewing his hand off!! is this teething? he's fine during the day and doesn't seem to be in any pain...
Last nigh DH got up and settled him at 4am so i could sleep a bit more, so he didn't take a feed then (we've tried him on the bottle, ebm and formula, but he has none of it!) so maybe he's not hungry and i shouldn't be feeding him everytime?!?! i just dont know, its the easiest and quickest thing to do!! I have also just kept him in bed with me a few times after a feed because i'm too tired to get up and put him back in his cot! Don't really want to encourage this though incase he gets too used to it....

Really getting me down :(
just want to sleep again and be able to enjoy my days with DS!

DS also isn't sleeping great during the day now either, yesterday was one 45min in the morning and a 30min nap in the afternoon!! Thank god it's the weekend and DH is here to take DS so i can sleep!! (i'm a scot living in oz, hence the different time!!!)

DS rolled over for the first time the other day too, and has done it a few times since... does this have anything to do with it??

might try baby rice too soon, think he's a little to young though....

moan moan moan, i hate sleepy me!

Hi all, sorry i have been awol.... we have been sleep training!

So after nearly 12 weeks of crap sleep dh and i decided the only way to go about getting the little monkey to sleep was cc

I have always hated the thought of this but as dd is cruising and crawling most other methods didnt work as she nearly kept still long enough! PUPD was out of the question because she wouldnt calm down when dh would pick her up, shh/ pat didnt work because she would crawl away and climb so..........

We put her into bed and leave the room, she crys and stands at the edge of the cot, 3 mins later (never longer) we go back in and lie her down, repeat x3 normally by the third time she gives in and lies down, we shh/patt for a minute and slowly back off. 9 x out of 10 she will stay settled and get herself to sleep!

We had the longest stretch of sleep in the last 5 months the other night 10am til 5.10am.

Even if she wakes now she will play in her cot for about 20 mins...

DD still refuses the bottle so we didnt go down the formula route, we have upped the solids though, adding more finger food for her to play with...and we try to take her swimming later afternoon (in dubai so its nice and warm) to tire her out.

Not sure which of the above has had the best effect on her sleeping....i think maybe she has learnt everything she needs to for a while, the hunger must of been the issue too and of course keeping to one routine for naps and bed time has helped.

Good luck to the rest of you, sleep will come!