What are you good people at MN doing getting involved in a tie in with *Aptamil*???????

[moondog]

Wonder how many feel as disappointed as me????

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you "Had a read" - yeah right - such a good read and had so many opinions on the subject that you didn't remember a post about 4 posts before mine, and had no other constructive comment to make other than to pick out my comments???

I may irritate you (and others) but I'm not stupid.

no just couldn't see why yours was there. didn't say you irritated me though. I've been reading, watching the athletics, dealing with big kids and posting about the place on mn. still as you take it so personally I'll just keep the thoughts in my head. okay

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I was also going to say that I used to boycott nestle, but then remembered that I love Yorkie bars and that that would be hypocritical

I bottlefed my dd. I was convinced that formula was virtually as good as breastmilk, I can't pinpoint exactly how, just several years of being brought up in a culture of everyone I know bottlefeeding as seeing the ads. SMA were prosecuted for one ad that was placed in the baby mags back in 2001 when I was pg.

I am angry that I was not given the full facts, that it wasn't pointed out that LCP's are derived from fish oil and algae, that all the risks were not pointed out to me.

I made my choice and can live with that now for it took a long while.

I am very disapointed with mumsnet for accepting an ad for formula, becasue this is what it is though it pretends to be something else.

What ad was that JulieF?
I like your point. Tiktok says this; people need to know the truth about the products on offer and then make a choice.The choice itself doesn't matter an iota. However,the circumstances leading to that choice do.

OK hows this for an idea. You allow advertising, but then for every ad placed the formula companies have to pay a tax which is then used to promote and encourage breastfeeding.

I had ds1 in a baby friendly hospital- they ran really good antenatal workshops on bfeeding which were immensley helpful. They were so understaffed though that post-natal support was practically non-existent. At the moment support is provided in the main by volunteers who do tend to be middle class etc etc. They don't reach the people who are most likely to bottlefeed. How much better if support could be provided via paid people eg through Sure Start or something. The bfeeding councellor (paid!) could run classes during pregnancy so that the relationship would be built up before the birth- then when problems were encountered- hey presto they would have a friendly face to turn to.

I did ask for help with ds1- but like a lot of people found the advice quite judegmental. Now I was lucky and managed to sort it out myself.

If bfeeding is well established it simply is ,much easier than bottlefeeding. It's establishing it that is hard. How much better to promote it rather than simpy ban bottlefeeding ads. A cultural change is needed and that will only be achieved via education, not bans.

But also need to be realistic. I could have physically fed ds3 - but I couldn';t practically. I didn't bother talking to a bfeeding counsellor as I know from past experience they are very anti mixed feeding. I figured it was achoice of mixed or nothing, so did that. At 7 months ds3 is still have a small amount of breast- not as much as I would choose- but some is better than none.

Isn't that effectively what happens with fags jimjams??? Where exactly do the sky high taxes on these go?

I am on a Sure Start board and b/feeding advice and support is part of the package in our area. Monthly meetings involve monitoring figures and initiatives. It is really tough going. The most effective things to date seem to be trips into junior schools as part of b/feeding week,with a nursing mother in tow (me on occasion. I was pleasantly surprised at how many people told me that they were pleased for their kids to be part of it and how they'd enjoyed it. These were mostly b/feeding mums by the way,from the roughest part of town. The nature of my job means i have close contact with them.

The second was to train peer supporters. Again often a case of the m/cs preaching to the converted but one gorgeous young girl from the local estate who had had two kids very young and breastfed was and is phenomenally influential. The m/ws say they now have a lot more of the group they are targetting saying that they'll give it a go 'because Susie X has told me all about it.'

Sorry, just read your post Jimjam. Agree that a cultural change is needed but I don't think most people do know that the advertising of formula is banned. I know I only found out through mn. So don't think the banning has any (much) effect on bf rates. But I imagine that a lifting of the ban would.

Exactly- I think that is the only way that bfeeding rates will be improved in this country. With that sort of scheme then you won't have to fear advertising (I will repeat what I said earlier- its different in the developed world). I remember a young girl seeing me bfeeding ds1 and having absolutely no idea what I was doing. She was fascinated! But then I have met other young girls playing mum pretending to bfeed their dolls- surely that's where we want to be. Funnily enough ds2 whne pretending to be a baby shouts "I'm a baby and I eat boobies" so despite the large amount of bottlefeeding that has gone on in this house he still equates feeding with bfeeding.

I'm still a bit cross with you for comparing formula to turkey twizzlers btw I looked at the ingredients this morning and it's just whey, fish oils something else milk based and a bunch of vitamins.

I fed my baby round at a friends the other day and her 5 year old son and 3 year old daughter were fascinated and came right in for a good old look. The were so completely unembarrassed and interested that their mum dropped her embarrassment and helped me explain it to them.

Breastfeeding needs to be more visible.

yeah but Tinker- wouldn't lifting the ban and then using that to generate funding to promote bfeeding have a greater effect than continuing with a ban and having no money to promote bfeeding.

Jimjams,I didn't actually intend people to surmise that formula is as bad as tt's. Of course not!
What I meant was that if people could actually see how formula is put together then it may cause them to think a little. (The same goes for many foodstuffs of course.)

I dunno about the ingredient list...it freaks me out.

JJ - Think lifting the ban might encourage a more, er, aggressive debate about the issue. And maybe more funding. As an aside, I just don't get the "we're bombarded with breast is best" argument. I don't think "we" are. I'm unusual in my circle of friends/acquaintances etc for still breastfeeding at 3 months (have just beaten the length of time I did it first time)and this is among intelligent, educated people with access to information.

well it's long - but there's nothing really bad in there.

Jimjams I never once considered bottlefeeding. It didn't occur to me. It was completely outside my realm of understanding.

I'm not sure why. As the first of my friends to start having babies I wasn't watching anyone else's methods.

I probably breastfed because my mum did and I simply never came across any bottles or other paraphanalia. I also had very supportive MW's.

Breastfeeding was tough at first, then horrendous fourth time round when I had thrush, but it still never occured to me to bottlefeed.

I have always been hostile to adverts and suspicious of the 'welcome to motherhood' style packs handed out by the nhs mws. Perhaps if I'd ever seen bottlefeeding or read about it, things may have been different. I'm really glad it happened this way for me and wish it would happen like this for a higher percentage of women in this country.

I agree Tinker. I feel bombarded with formula awareness and promotion and a general culture of bottlefeeding .
Can't see my neighbour's car's numberplate (SMA) without thinking of it even!

(Didn't bother me as Ii knew what I wanted,but it could sway many others. Note how many anxious new b/feeding mothers are posting atm!)

I think the problem at the moment Tinker is that bfeeding is not established. It can take quite a number of weeks to get to the stage where its easy - (took me about 6 with ds1) but then its rolls like a dream. The breast is best message can often be delivered in a holier than thou way as well which tends to get people's backs up. Much better would be the type of role models that moondoog mentions in her post.

Everyone in my family breast fed their babies- at least for the early months- it never occured to me not to. And that's what those peer supporters encourage. Apparently my MIL was pleased as she thought it would encourage my SIL to feed her baby (it did).

I'm disappointed it hasn't workd out so easily this time round (and 3rd time round you would imagine it would be a breeze), but having done it for years with ds2 and a year with ds1 I am determined to keep giving ds3 some breast for a while longer (he is 7 months). Without previous experience I dount I would have bothered.

Those packs are very dodgy spidermama. Who the hell are Bounty anyway? Even my MW didn't seem to know.

Babies need about 5% of what we are led to believe they need. What's that weird pink lotion about? Applying such gunk to a baby's pristine cream is a crime. Remember my friend's new baby having excema and her telling me really sadly that he didn't smell lie a baby (was her 2nd) 'because I can't put baby lotion or talcum powder on him.'

This really scared me-how far have we come (or gone?) if intelligent people like this woman think that babies smell of chemicals??

ahh spidermamma- we got tot it the same way. Those role models are so important and worth much more than any advertising. I have a sneaky suspicion I may have had thrush this time round (itchy red peeling nipples TMI?) which hasn't helped maintain where I was iyswim. I was always going to have to mix feed this time- but I've had to do less breast than I hoped (I hoped to go back to pure breast after weaning- but no chance)

I always thought Bounty were related to the chocolate bars. Just realised I've beeen incredibly stupid I like the handy tubs of sudocreme though

BTW Milupa Aptamil have an advertising feature about parenting in todays Indie. I read it thinking it was an article until I spotted the sponsored bit at the end. They must be paying for a campaign.

If enough money was generated by taxing the advertising it could be used to set up milk banks as welll. How great would that be?

Agree that the holier than thou bit is a huge turn-off but (after horrid first 3 or 4 weeks this time) I was still determined to do it regardless. However, that is almost wholly down to discovering MN. Didn't especially enjoy it first time and had the excuse of going back to work at 4 months to give up at 3. But, through info and advice on here have been more determined to keep going (because I can, no digs at those who can't/don't want to). For those with no access to good information it must be so much easier to say 'Sod it'

Thrush is a bugger. I had it with child 4 after feeding my others with relative ease well into their secod and sometimes third years.
I couldn't believe my body was letting me down. It was really sore and very hard to get rid of.

Part of the poroblem is that gps aren't always clued up. I had to print out stuff form the BF network to show mine so he'd give me a big enough loading dose of fluconazole because he didn't know thrush could get in the ducts as well as on the nipples.

It took six weeks to shift but ds4 is six months old now and it's back to being easy again, thank God!